[medassist]

Byranna,
Hi there and Im very impressed with all of the great knowledge you have given the members here. I wish there were more people out there helping people like us who are uninformed by the professionals!

I am a new member and had posted my story yesterday but do not see it. Will repost in hopes that you can answer. I even posted my xray!? Hmm that's weird.

I have a chronic tooth pain - mild, tight, annoying that really does not subside since June 4th when I had the RC done. #19. An old achey tooth since April Ive been dealing with)

Endodontists and dentist alike have xray'd, tested, and consulted me. They all think it looks great and would be very surprised if there were an infection because my gums are tight, yadda yadda.
I posted yesterday that my intuition tells me that my immune system is basically fighting the bugs that are trapped in this RC tooth, and how long is someone supposed to put their life on hold- 3 months of dull pain is getting to me.
Granted I have good days and bad but mostly im just dealing with the pain in the tooth. manage with Advil 400-600mg qh, and deal with it during the day. I think that an extraction with full removal and debridement is in order if this doesn't settle down.
I am going to Hawaii which is really a sad thing for me now because I will struggle to enjoy myself. I will consult with an oral surgeon and make it clear I want it totally cleaned out. What are your thoughts?
Also I would love to know of your backround in the dental field and of the dental experiences you have had personally, it would be very interesting.
IF you have time, I would love to hear back. Im going to attach a second time here the xray of the tooth.
Thanks again,

medassist

[Chemar]

Hi medassist

You need to edit that xray before you post it to remove all personal names, addresses, phone numbers etc... just cover them over before you take the photo.

Please check your PMs as you were notified of this when you tried to post it yesterday

thanks

[Bryanna]

Hi medassist,

Thank you for the kind words My purpose here is to inform people of the things that I have learned while working in the dental field for the last 35 years. Things/facts that dentists all over the world are very aware of, yet rarely tell their patients about. I hope someday to see that change!

I assume by your "name" that you are a medical assistant.. or something like that? Welcome!

Your xray was removed by Chemar because it evidently had your personal information on it. So if you can block that info out somehow and re attach it, great. If not, I can pretty much tell you what is going on just based on your clear description. BTW.... your dentists know too but they are hoping that your infection will find a way to drain which would temporarily ease the symptoms... and make you stop complaining. When the infection finally shows radio-graphically, they will then recognize the (ongoing) problem.

As you may be aware all root canaled teeth are unhealthy and harbor infected nerve tissue inside of the tiny canals. That tight feeling that you have is the inflammation from the trapped bacteria. At this point the ligament may also be inflamed which is a sign that the infection is spreading. Sometimes the widened PDL (periodontal ligament) can be seen on the xray... but many times it cannot.

Everyone has a biological threshold to bacteria, infection, and other irritants that affect the immune system. Some people are very sensitive or in tune with their threshold and know when something is going wrong. Others may ignore how they feel or they just do not connect it to their oral health. You said your intuition is telling you that your immune system is being compromised. You have not disclosed anything about your health other than this tooth. So perhaps you could look at your overall health picture and conclude if you believe this tooth is having a negative affect on your health at this time.

This rc tooth is not healthy and never will be healthy. No one can predict when or if the infection will show deeper symptoms or when it will show up radio-grapically. Many people will be told to give this "time" to settle down and just wait it out. The reality of that is when it seems to have "settled down" it generally means the bacteria has found a place to drain. It may take weeks, months or even years before the tooth "seems" to flare up at which time the patient is told "the tooth became infected again". The truth is the tooth has been infected and it was draining but now the threshold has been met and the immune system says... no more. Physical dental signs at that time could be limited to radio-graphically indicating bone loss or cystic infection, or they could be swelling, a fistula on the gum at the apex, ear and jaw pain, a deep periodontal pocket develops, or sinus pain and infection. Systemic signs of chronic dental infection can be anything from pain to digestive problems, to cancer.

To look up the research on this you could go to the work of Dr George Menig a dentist who was one of the founding members of the American Association of Endodontists. Ironic as that is.......

My professional background... I'm going into my 36th year in the dental profession!! I wear many hats dependent on the office I'm in .... chair side assistant, radiographer, office manager and always a patient advocate. I have primarily worked in oral surgery and perio... but also have many years in restorative dentistry as well. I have been answering dental questions online for about 15 years on a few different sites throughout those years. I am actually very excited to be expanding my "holistic" knowledge as I work towards a degree in Nutrition and Healthcare Practitioner ) Still at the stage of comparing schools and curriculum's but hope to start by September!

My personal dental experiences.......
I had all 4 of my second molars removed to allow my wisdom teeth to come in. I had an unpleasant experience with one of those extractions at the age of 12. If I only knew then what I know now!
I've had full orthodontia twice .. once in my 20's and once in my 30's.
I have had TMJ problems my entire life.
As a child I had many dental fillings put in my posterior teeth with and without anesthetic :/
I had all of my mercury fillings and gold restorations safely removed several years ago and replaced with zirconia crowns an onlays.
I have had some greatly talented dentists... and some real jerks throughout the years.

Your background is in the medical field???

Bryanna

Originally Posted by medassist

Byranna,
Hi there and Im very impressed with all of the great knowledge you have given the members here. I wish there were more people out there helping people like us who are uninformed by the professionals!

I am a new member and had posted my story yesterday but do not see it. Will repost in hopes that you can answer. I even posted my xray!? Hmm that's weird.

I have a chronic tooth pain - mild, tight, annoying that really does not subside since June 4th when I had the RC done. #19. An old achey tooth since April Ive been dealing with)

Endodontists and dentist alike have xray'd, tested, and consulted me. They all think it looks great and would be very surprised if there were an infection because my gums are tight, yadda yadda.
I posted yesterday that my intuition tells me that my immune system is basically fighting the bugs that are trapped in this RC tooth, and how long is someone supposed to put their life on hold- 3 months of dull pain is getting to me.
Granted I have good days and bad but mostly im just dealing with the pain in the tooth. manage with Advil 400-600mg qh, and deal with it during the day. I think that an extraction with full removal and debridement is in order if this doesn't settle down.
I am going to Hawaii which is really a sad thing for me now because I will struggle to enjoy myself. I will consult with an oral surgeon and make it clear I want it totally cleaned out. What are your thoughts?
Also I would love to know of your backround in the dental field and of the dental experiences you have had personally, it would be very interesting.
IF you have time, I would love to hear back. Im going to attach a second time here the xray of the tooth.
Thanks again,

medassist

[medassist]

I'm a little rummy trying to maneuver through the emails and not certain where to post here.
THANK YOU very much for giving me a heads up on me advertising my RC and my personal information attached.I do not know what I was thinking. Thank you again for that.
Im a recent grad from medical assisting school Bryanna and come from two schools of thought so I am so thrilled to see that you are doing this. I think its just unreal that dentist do not educate. Noone educates patients what is the deal here?
Yes my RC is one big bandage for an underlying infection and it does not have a place to drain. That is so upsetting to me. Its also amazing how most people (and I have talked to lots of RC people lately) have no problems whatsoever, with their health and the eons pass by and they have no problems with their teeth, and they have more than one RC.

My health history? I do not have big problems yet...I do have and have had for years cervical pain in the C-5-C7 C-1- causing what I would say cervicogenic headaches x8 yrs maybe?

Besides anxiety not eating very well, and being very sensitive to the headaches, and ongoing offgoing neckpain im in fairly good shape. All prior to the tooth pain. This pain im having from the root canal is causing me to be depressed quite honestly. I do my best to smile through it, but its not right. 3 plus months with nonstop pressure dull pain.
I would say that im hyper in tune with whatever is going on with me, having said that, since this RC I have also traveling pain that kind of flickers here and there, unilateral, above and below, stays and goes. Im thinking neuralgia- trigeminal nerve etc etc. but im certain its all related to the RC.

What is weird is that I have never had problems in the dentist chair, I always found it relaxing almost. I have 4 crowns, a recent crown on #15 done April of this year, which set off #19 hence root canal and I just think that I need to get in with an oral surgeon.

Im offended by my endodontist and dentists that they do not tell me like it is. Im insulted. "wait it out" "I don't see any problems" "Take advil forever, no biggie on your kidneys right?
You have had so much experience with your own mouth and in the field that I commend you and respect you for what you are doing seriously. I feel like im in this pain and that there is a reason for it, a big reason, beyond my understanding at this point, but as I begin to look for work in the medical field I want to find a niche where I can educate, and nurture, and shed light as much as im allowed to.

I don't think that I can be like this though forever. I don't care if I have the tooth, teeth whatever removed. I need to get with an oral surgeon to have him get some pictures and suggestions. Im also looking into integrative dentistry where they could help. Forget the mainstream at this point unless im having an emergency, I just don't trust anyone.
Thanks for listening. I will repost the root canal.
Thanks again!
Elizabeth

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi medassist,

Thank you for the kind words My purpose here is to inform people of the things that I have learned while working in the dental field for the last 35 years. Things/facts that dentists all over the world are very aware of, yet rarely tell their patients about. I hope someday to see that change!

I assume by your "name" that you are a medical assistant.. or something like that? Welcome!

Your xray was removed by Chemar because it evidently had your personal information on it. So if you can block that info out somehow and re attach it, great. If not, I can pretty much tell you what is going on just based on your clear description. BTW.... your dentists know too but they are hoping that your infection will find a way to drain which would temporarily ease the symptoms... and make you stop complaining. When the infection finally shows radio-graphically, they will then recognize the (ongoing) problem.

As you may be aware all root canaled teeth are unhealthy and harbor infected nerve tissue inside of the tiny canals. That tight feeling that you have is the inflammation from the trapped bacteria. At this point the ligament may also be inflamed which is a sign that the infection is spreading. Sometimes the widened PDL (periodontal ligament) can be seen on the xray... but many times it cannot.

Everyone has a biological threshold to bacteria, infection, and other irritants that affect the immune system. Some people are very sensitive or in tune with their threshold and know when something is going wrong. Others may ignore how they feel or they just do not connect it to their oral health. You said your intuition is telling you that your immune system is being compromised. You have not disclosed anything about your health other than this tooth. So perhaps you could look at your overall health picture and conclude if you believe this tooth is having a negative affect on your health at this time.

This rc tooth is not healthy and never will be healthy. No one can predict when or if the infection will show deeper symptoms or when it will show up radio-grapically. Many people will be told to give this "time" to settle down and just wait it out. The reality of that is when it seems to have "settled down" it generally means the bacteria has found a place to drain. It may take weeks, months or even years before the tooth "seems" to flare up at which time the patient is told "the tooth became infected again". The truth is the tooth has been infected and it was draining but now the threshold has been met and the immune system says... no more. Physical dental signs at that time could be limited to radio-graphically indicating bone loss or cystic infection, or they could be swelling, a fistula on the gum at the apex, ear and jaw pain, a deep periodontal pocket develops, or sinus pain and infection. Systemic signs of chronic dental infection can be anything from pain to digestive problems, to cancer.

To look up the research on this you could go to the work of Dr George Menig a dentist who was one of the founding members of the American Association of Endodontists. Ironic as that is.......

My professional background... I'm going into my 36th year in the dental profession!! I wear many hats dependent on the office I'm in .... chair side assistant, radiographer, office manager and always a patient advocate. I have primarily worked in oral surgery and perio... but also have many years in restorative dentistry as well. I have been answering dental questions online for about 15 years on a few different sites throughout those years. I am actually very excited to be expanding my "holistic" knowledge as I work towards a degree in Nutrition and Healthcare Practitioner ) Still at the stage of comparing schools and curriculum's but hope to start by September!

My personal dental experiences.......
I had all 4 of my second molars removed to allow my wisdom teeth to come in. I had an unpleasant experience with one of those extractions at the age of 12. If I only knew then what I know now!
I've had full orthodontia twice .. once in my 20's and once in my 30's.
I have had TMJ problems my entire life.
As a child I had many dental fillings put in my posterior teeth with and without anesthetic :/
I had all of my mercury fillings and gold restorations safely removed several years ago and replaced with zirconia crowns an onlays.
I have had some greatly talented dentists... and some real jerks throughout the years.

Your background is in the medical field???

Bryanna

[medassist]

We nt right over my head. ive made the adjustment but need to figure out how to erase that.

Originally Posted by medassist

Byranna,
Hi there and Im very impressed with all of the great knowledge you have given the members here. I wish there were more people out there helping people like us who are uninformed by the professionals!

I am a new member and had posted my story yesterday but do not see it. Will repost in hopes that you can answer. I even posted my xray!? Hmm that's weird.

I have a chronic tooth pain - mild, tight, annoying that really does not subside since June 4th when I had the RC done. #19. An old achey tooth since April Ive been dealing with)

Endodontists and dentist alike have xray'd, tested, and consulted me. They all think it looks great and would be very surprised if there were an infection because my gums are tight, yadda yadda.
I posted yesterday that my intuition tells me that my immune system is basically fighting the bugs that are trapped in this RC tooth, and how long is someone supposed to put their life on hold- 3 months of dull pain is getting to me.
Granted I have good days and bad but mostly im just dealing with the pain in the tooth. manage with Advil 400-600mg qh, and deal with it during the day. I think that an extraction with full removal and debridement is in order if this doesn't settle down.
I am going to Hawaii which is really a sad thing for me now because I will struggle to enjoy myself. I will consult with an oral surgeon and make it clear I want it totally cleaned out. What are your thoughts?
Also I would love to know of your backround in the dental field and of the dental experiences you have had personally, it would be very interesting.
IF you have time, I would love to hear back. Im going to attach a second time here the xray of the tooth.
Thanks again,

medassist

[Bryanna]

Hi Elizabeth,

First let me re post something you wrote and give a bit of an explanation in bold type...

<<<<Its also amazing how most people (and I have talked to lots of RC people lately) have no problems whatsoever, with their health and the eons pass by and they have no problems with their teeth, and they have more than one RC.>>>>

IN 35 YEARS I HAVE SEEN THOUSANDS OF PATIENTS WITH ROOT CANALED TEETH. I ASSISTED ON MANY OF THEM PRIOR TO 15+ YEARS AGO WHEN I BECAME MORE AWARE OF THE FOCAL INFECTION THEORY AND REPETITIVELY SAW THE SYSTEMIC CONNECTION TO ORAL HEALTH. I ALSO HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THE BIOPSY AND BACTERIAL CULTURE REPORTS ON COUNTLESS EXTRACTED RC TEETH (MANY OF WHICH WERE SYMPTOM FREE ACCORDING TO THE PATIENT AND ONLY SHOWED RADIO-GRAPHIC PATHOLOGY)... ALL OF WHICH CONFIRM THE CHRONIC INFECTION. I REFUSE TO PARTAKE IN THIS PROCEDURE OR SURGICAL APICOECTOMIES EVER AGAIN.

RC IS THE MOST LUCRATIVE DENTAL PROCEDURE THAT CAN BE PREFORMED.... 3 OR MORE TIMES TO ONE TOOTH! HOWEVER THE BACTERIAL STATUS OF THAT TOOTH CONTINUES TO BE A CHRONIC PROBLEM.
AN EXAMPLE: IT'S LIKE HAVING AN INFECTED SPLINTER IN YOUR HAND.... YOU CAN DISINFECT IT, SQUEEZE THE PUS OUT OF IT AND IT FEELS/LOOKS A LITTLE BETTER. THEN IT I FESTERS AGAIN... SO YOU DISINFECT ETC...... RECURS AGAIN... ETC. THIS IS KEEPS HAPPENING BECAUSE IT NEVER GOT BETTER IN THE FIRST PLACE ..... SIMPLY BECAUSE THE SOURCE OF TO THE ORIGINAL INFECTION IS THE SPLINTER AND AS LONG AS IT IS PRESENT THERE WILL BE INFECTION.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH ROOT CANALED TEETH WHO WOULD ONLY KNOW TO GAUGE THE HEALTH OF THEIR TEETH BY ONE SINGLE FACTOR..... PAIN. THERE ARE ALSO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH UNDIAGNOSED ILLNESSES AGAIN WHO GAUGE THEIR HEALTH BY..... PAIN. RARELY DOES SOMEONE KNOW ENOUGH TO CORRELATE THEIR ILL HEALTH WITH A DENTAL PROBLEM.

I took a look at your xrays. They are a bit blurry but the problem is obvious right from the onset. Tooth #19 most likely had a large amalgam (mercury) filling. That dentist put a pin in this tooth for retention ... which by the way are rarely used any longer because they cause pulpal irritation. This pin was placed either in the pulpal canal or close proximity to it thus causing irreversible pulpitis. So this tooth and pulp was inflamed since the original filling was put in. The dentist who put the crown on left the pin in the tooth as he knew if he removed it there would have been a pulpal exposure. So he took a "wait and see what happens" approach knowing that eventually you would have some indication of a problem. This pin was most likely the reason for the eventual death of this tooth.

It appears that you still have the same crown on that you had prior to the root canal treatment because it doesn't fit real well on the distal (back of the tooth) in either picture. So I assume they went through the top portion of the tooth to perform the rc or took the crown off and re-cemented it??

This tooth is broken down at the junction of the furcation. This is where the roots come together in the middle of the tooth. There is a large void in the bone there that was caused by the bacteria and it cannot be corrected. This area holds a lot of bacteria and it will decay. It also appears that you have a cyst growing from the apex of the distal root (possibly the mesial one too) of this tooth which is more apparent in the post op rc film over the pre op film.

To recap your above statement and my response to it .... MANY people are walking around with your EXACT tooth situation and they think nothing is wrong. So long as they only complain a little or not at all to their dentist.... they will not be offered the information that I am offering you today.

It may behoove you to seek a Biological dentist who tends to be concerned about the oral and body connection. You can go to IAOMT.org as this where many of them are listed.

On a side note....Congrats on your recent graduation! I hope you find a position that enlightens you and rewards you with much gratification

I wish I had better news for you.... I really do!
Bryanna

Originally Posted by medassist

I'm a little rummy trying to maneuver through the emails and not certain where to post here.
THANK YOU very much for giving me a heads up on me advertising my RC and my personal information attached.I do not know what I was thinking. Thank you again for that.
Im a recent grad from medical assisting school Bryanna and come from two schools of thought so I am so thrilled to see that you are doing this. I think its just unreal that dentist do not educate. Noone educates patients what is the deal here?
Yes my RC is one big bandage for an underlying infection and it does not have a place to drain. That is so upsetting to me. Its also amazing how most people (and I have talked to lots of RC people lately) have no problems whatsoever, with their health and the eons pass by and they have no problems with their teeth, and they have more than one RC.

My health history? I do not have big problems yet...I do have and have had for years cervical pain in the C-5-C7 C-1- causing what I would say cervicogenic headaches x8 yrs maybe?

Besides anxiety not eating very well, and being very sensitive to the headaches, and ongoing offgoing neckpain im in fairly good shape. All prior to the tooth pain. This pain im having from the root canal is causing me to be depressed quite honestly. I do my best to smile through it, but its not right. 3 plus months with nonstop pressure dull pain.
I would say that im hyper in tune with whatever is going on with me, having said that, since this RC I have also traveling pain that kind of flickers here and there, unilateral, above and below, stays and goes. Im thinking neuralgia- trigeminal nerve etc etc. but im certain its all related to the RC.

What is weird is that I have never had problems in the dentist chair, I always found it relaxing almost. I have 4 crowns, a recent crown on #15 done April of this year, which set off #19 hence root canal and I just think that I need to get in with an oral surgeon.

Im offended by my endodontist and dentists that they do not tell me like it is. Im insulted. "wait it out" "I don't see any problems" "Take advil forever, no biggie on your kidneys right?
You have had so much experience with your own mouth and in the field that I commend you and respect you for what you are doing seriously. I feel like im in this pain and that there is a reason for it, a big reason, beyond my understanding at this point, but as I begin to look for work in the medical field I want to find a niche where I can educate, and nurture, and shed light as much as im allowed to.

I don't think that I can be like this though forever. I don't care if I have the tooth, teeth whatever removed. I need to get with an oral surgeon to have him get some pictures and suggestions. Im also looking into integrative dentistry where they could help. Forget the mainstream at this point unless im having an emergency, I just don't trust anyone.
Thanks for listening. I will repost the root canal.
Thanks again!
Elizabeth

[medassist]

So that is what is so annoying that I clearly have an issue with the tooth, chronic pain x close to 4 months now and they look at me and say "wait until it settles down" I hear that and I just want to choke them. Seriously.

#19 started out with a composite filling/pin as you mentioned, then converted to the crown for which they did drill through. She was pretty rigorous with the instrumentation, and on two occasions she had difficult stopping the bleeding, and put her medication on the tooth to stop it. Idont think it ever stopped, so it never was given time to rest. She did it all in one visit. (this endo gal by the way did all of her studies at Harvard go figure)

So we have a tooth with a cyst, and and its infected and they want me to wait? Hmmm. Im even thinking of having it removed in Hawaii if I cant take it anymore because I don't care at this point
I need to get this gone, and then probably focus on any additional infection in the ligaments, and hopefully they take care of it when they pull the tooth.

I have two phone calls in to an oral surgeon and a biological dentist. I fear there isn't time because we leave on Wednesday.

Well you certainly have had your personal share of dental work wow. You read these radiographs like ABC's Man.

I am so tempted to bring up this information to my endo and dentist guys, seriously. What do you think?

I will go to the bio dentist but do they extract? Im guessing yes they do. I know that I will be opening up another pandoras box of dental issues when this tooth goes, but I am treating the origin of the problem and I want my oral health back.
Me? Im a single middle aged mom with two relatively young boys, and I need to have myself in order mentally and physically to continue to raise them and go to work. ! They are 8 & 10.
I appreciate your posts, and will send this off before it gets deleted! Kids can be very distracting!
Yes im hoping to find something decent for work. I know you have seen it all, and I hope you find a great school to go to. Where I am at they have an excellent school for integrative holistic medicine, etc. at Bastyr college. Ever heard of it?
Talk to you hopefully later!
Elizabeth

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi Elizabeth,

First let me re post something you wrote and give a bit of an explanation in bold type...

<<<<Its also amazing how most people (and I have talked to lots of RC people lately) have no problems whatsoever, with their health and the eons pass by and they have no problems with their teeth, and they have more than one RC.>>>>

IN 35 YEARS I HAVE SEEN THOUSANDS OF PATIENTS WITH ROOT CANALED TEETH. I ASSISTED ON MANY OF THEM PRIOR TO 15+ YEARS AGO WHEN I BECAME MORE AWARE OF THE FOCAL INFECTION THEORY AND REPETITIVELY SAW THE SYSTEMIC CONNECTION TO ORAL HEALTH. I ALSO HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THE BIOPSY AND BACTERIAL CULTURE REPORTS ON COUNTLESS EXTRACTED RC TEETH (MANY OF WHICH WERE SYMPTOM FREE ACCORDING TO THE PATIENT AND ONLY SHOWED RADIO-GRAPHIC PATHOLOGY)... ALL OF WHICH CONFIRM THE CHRONIC INFECTION. I REFUSE TO PARTAKE IN THIS PROCEDURE OR SURGICAL APICOECTOMIES EVER AGAIN.

RC IS THE MOST LUCRATIVE DENTAL PROCEDURE THAT CAN BE PREFORMED.... 3 OR MORE TIMES TO ONE TOOTH! HOWEVER THE BACTERIAL STATUS OF THAT TOOTH CONTINUES TO BE A CHRONIC PROBLEM.
AN EXAMPLE: IT'S LIKE HAVING AN INFECTED SPLINTER IN YOUR HAND.... YOU CAN DISINFECT IT, SQUEEZE THE PUS OUT OF IT AND IT FEELS/LOOKS A LITTLE BETTER. THEN IT I FESTERS AGAIN... SO YOU DISINFECT ETC...... RECURS AGAIN... ETC. THIS IS KEEPS HAPPENING BECAUSE IT NEVER GOT BETTER IN THE FIRST PLACE ..... SIMPLY BECAUSE THE SOURCE OF TO THE ORIGINAL INFECTION IS THE SPLINTER AND AS LONG AS IT IS PRESENT THERE WILL BE INFECTION.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH ROOT CANALED TEETH WHO WOULD ONLY KNOW TO GAUGE THE HEALTH OF THEIR TEETH BY ONE SINGLE FACTOR..... PAIN. THERE ARE ALSO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH UNDIAGNOSED ILLNESSES AGAIN WHO GAUGE THEIR HEALTH BY..... PAIN. RARELY DOES SOMEONE KNOW ENOUGH TO CORRELATE THEIR ILL HEALTH WITH A DENTAL PROBLEM.

I took a look at your xrays. They are a bit blurry but the problem is obvious right from the onset. Tooth #19 most likely had a large amalgam (mercury) filling. That dentist put a pin in this tooth for retention ... which by the way are rarely used any longer because they cause pulpal irritation. This pin was placed either in the pulpal canal or close proximity to it thus causing irreversible pulpitis. So this tooth and pulp was inflamed since the original filling was put in. The dentist who put the crown on left the pin in the tooth as he knew if he removed it there would have been a pulpal exposure. So he took a "wait and see what happens" approach knowing that eventually you would have some indication of a problem. This pin was most likely the reason for the eventual death of this tooth.

It appears that you still have the same crown on that you had prior to the root canal treatment because it doesn't fit real well on the distal (back of the tooth) in either picture. So I assume they went through the top portion of the tooth to perform the rc or took the crown off and re-cemented it??

This tooth is broken down at the junction of the furcation. This is where the roots come together in the middle of the tooth. There is a large void in the bone there that was caused by the bacteria and it cannot be corrected. This area holds a lot of bacteria and it will decay. It also appears that you have a cyst growing from the apex of the distal root (possibly the mesial one too) of this tooth which is more apparent in the post op rc film over the pre op film.

To recap your above statement and my response to it .... MANY people are walking around with your EXACT tooth situation and they think nothing is wrong. So long as they only complain a little or not at all to their dentist.... they will not be offered the information that I am offering you today.

It may behoove you to seek a Biological dentist who tends to be concerned about the oral and body connection. You can go to IAOMT.org as this where many of them are listed.

On a side note....Congrats on your recent graduation! I hope you find a position that enlightens you and rewards you with much gratification

I wish I had better news for you.... I really do!
Bryanna

[Bryanna]

Hi Elizabeth,

I understand your frustration with not being properly informed by your dentists. I hear this from people every single day..... I can only hope that one day this changes for the better.

The bleeding during the root canal indicates that some portion of the nerves were still alive (typical occurrence) and/or the dentist perforated through the tooth into the bone with an instrument (bacteria also entered the bone if this happened).

Yea, it's really irrelevant of where the endodontist studied..... there are no magic tricks with a root canal procedure... it is what it is.

I would not recommend that you have the tooth removed by anyone other than an oral surgeon or at best a dentist who routinely performs extractions. It is imperative that the ligament is removed and the bone is thoroughly debrided at the time of the extraction.... that is the ideal time rather than sometime afterwards.

Feel free to bring this information up with any dentist you choose
The xrays tell the story and believe it or not, so does the pre op report from the endodontist. In dental terms it says ... that the pin was irritating the pulp resulting in irreversible pulpitis. The apical periodontitis, widened PDL (periodontal ligament) and lamina dura indicate bacteria and disease in the ligament, the bone surrounding the ligament and at the apex of the tooth. Calcified canals indicate chronic, long term problem.

I would not recommend that you have this tooth out and fly a few days later. If you could get in to see an oral surgeon for a consult prior to leaving for Hawaii he may prescribe an antibiotic for you to take during your vacation which may temporarily subside the inflammation. You can schedule the extraction with him for as soon as you come back.

I know this is stressful, but see what you an do about getting in for a surgical consult asap.... then go and enjoy your vacation!!!!

Bryanna

Originally Posted by medassist

So that is what is so annoying that I clearly have an issue with the tooth, chronic pain x close to 4 months now and they look at me and say "wait until it settles down" I hear that and I just want to choke them. Seriously.

#19 started out with a composite filling/pin as you mentioned, then converted to the crown for which they did drill through. She was pretty rigorous with the instrumentation, and on two occasions she had difficult stopping the bleeding, and put her medication on the tooth to stop it. Idont think it ever stopped, so it never was given time to rest. She did it all in one visit. (this endo gal by the way did all of her studies at Harvard go figure)

So we have a tooth with a cyst, and and its infected and they want me to wait? Hmmm. Im even thinking of having it removed in Hawaii if I cant take it anymore because I don't care at this point
I need to get this gone, and then probably focus on any additional infection in the ligaments, and hopefully they take care of it when they pull the tooth.

I have two phone calls in to an oral surgeon and a biological dentist. I fear there isn't time because we leave on Wednesday.

Well you certainly have had your personal share of dental work wow. You read these radiographs like ABC's Man.

I am so tempted to bring up this information to my endo and dentist guys, seriously. What do you think?

I will go to the bio dentist but do they extract? Im guessing yes they do. I know that I will be opening up another pandoras box of dental issues when this tooth goes, but I am treating the origin of the problem and I want my oral health back.
Me? Im a single middle aged mom with two relatively young boys, and I need to have myself in order mentally and physically to continue to raise them and go to work. ! They are 8 & 10.
I appreciate your posts, and will send this off before it gets deleted! Kids can be very distracting!
Yes im hoping to find something decent for work. I know you have seen it all, and I hope you find a great school to go to. Where I am at they have an excellent school for integrative holistic medicine, etc. at Bastyr college. Ever heard of it?
Talk to you hopefully later!
Elizabeth

[medassist]

Hi Byranna,
Yes I went in for another yes another consult with another endodontist. Once again he says the root canal looks great and that he thinks I have oral facial pain and its neurological. He referred me to a oral facial pain guy DDS.MSD
Yep they say its oral facial pain, even when I told them today that my tooth had a pulse and his tests responded positive to percussion, etc.
Yeah its in my head alright.
Noone would prescribe antibiotics to me nobody if you can believe it. Im pain x almost 4 months and they wont prescribe antibiotics.
So my next plan is to get with an OS when I get back, and endure the two weeks in Hawaii with pain. I wish i could have gotten antibiotics.
Noone wants to extract the tooth either. They say no no no, deal with it.
im pretty out of energy at this point. Its trying me mentally, and i hate to be consumed with this but its taken a lof of my quality of life away..im just coping at this point.
Tallk with you later. I have an apt with the integrative dentist on aug 26 and hopefully they can spare me and remove it. I need someone that truly believes in me, and believes that i know what im talking about.
take care,

Elizabeth

[medassist]

Byranna,
Well at least I am taking penicillin that they prescribed to me before leaving so im on day 3. How to I convince an OS to remove my tooth? They almost don't want to because they see this xray and the one that they also take and say that the "fill" looks good and they don't think it should come out.
So I have a pulse in my tooth, and my mood and mindset is deteriorating although we are having fun in Hawaii, its there all the time...advil, and penicillin.
How can an endodontist say that I have facial pain and this is the cause of my tooth pain? Ive never been know to have facial pain. All of this started when 19 became rattled in April meaning irreversible pulpitits.

Also a question if you could answer when you have time: which is the best route to go- extraction and implant together in one shot or just the extraction first and let it heal completely?
Are there single temporary teeth that you can fit in there called ...I forget the name ...?
Well thanks and now that im online here on island I will check back in to see if you replied. Thanks for everything,

Elizabeth

Originally Posted by medassist

So that is what is so annoying that I clearly have an issue with the tooth, chronic pain x close to 4 months now and they look at me and say "wait until it settles down" I hear that and I just want to choke them. Seriously.

#19 started out with a composite filling/pin as you mentioned, then converted to the crown for which they did drill through. She was pretty rigorous with the instrumentation, and on two occasions she had difficult stopping the bleeding, and put her medication on the tooth to stop it. Idont think it ever stopped, so it never was given time to rest. She did it all in one visit. (this endo gal by the way did all of her studies at Harvard go figure)

So we have a tooth with a cyst, and and its infected and they want me to wait? Hmmm. Im even thinking of having it removed in Hawaii if I cant take it anymore because I don't care at this point
I need to get this gone, and then probably focus on any additional infection in the ligaments, and hopefully they take care of it when they pull the tooth.

I have two phone calls in to an oral surgeon and a biological dentist. I fear there isn't time because we leave on Wednesday.

Well you certainly have had your personal share of dental work wow. You read these radiographs like ABC's Man.

I am so tempted to bring up this information to my endo and dentist guys, seriously. What do you think?

I will go to the bio dentist but do they extract? Im guessing yes they do. I know that I will be opening up another pandoras box of dental issues when this tooth goes, but I am treating the origin of the problem and I want my oral health back.
Me? Im a single middle aged mom with two relatively young boys, and I need to have myself in order mentally and physically to continue to raise them and go to work. ! They are 8 & 10.
I appreciate your posts, and will send this off before it gets deleted! Kids can be very distracting!
Yes im hoping to find something decent for work. I know you have seen it all, and I hope you find a great school to go to. Where I am at they have an excellent school for integrative holistic medicine, etc. at Bastyr college. Ever heard of it?
Talk to you hopefully later!
Elizabeth