Hi sadie,

I've been in dentistry for 35 years and worked in many dental practices. For many years I worked in more than one dental practice at a time. Although my schedule was a bit crazy, I actually preferred it because it kept things interesting and diversified.

I am telling you this because in all of my years in dentistry, I have only known and/or worked with maybe a dozen or so dentists who informed their patients directly and honestly about root canaled teeth, jaw bone infections, periodontal disease, mercury fillings, fluoride, etc. Why so few? For some dentists it is literally their lack of comprehension about systemic health as it pertains to the teeth. They think of "systemic" health as a medical issue not a dental one and it's just easier for them to not deal with those issues. These dentists choose to forgo this aspect and treat patients as if their teeth were somehow disconnected to the rest of the body and they will repetitively re treat the same tooth countless times without any hesitation about the ill affects of what they are doing. Other dentists not only payed attention to the brief course that they had on the subject in dental school but took a genuine interest in it and furthered their education in it.... why? .... because they believe they are doctors and not just tooth carpenters. These dentists are not a part of the good ole' boy community of dentists because they go against the tide and delve into being a doctor. This is often shunned upon by the other dentists because they prefer to be known as tooth carpenters, not doctors. So it can be difficult to find a qualified dentist simply because they rarely advertise differently than the norm because they need to be able to stay under the radar and avoid being ostracized or criticized by the big dental corporations.

Of course it is disheartening to me to constantly hear people say....."how come none of these dentists I am seeing are saying I have an infection in my root canaled tooth .....and how come they all tell me to re treat it... and how come they want to do other things to these rc teeth"? But this is the norm, this is unfortunately typical of what people run into every single day and basically all for the reasons that I have given you above.

I cannot tell you that your pain will go away completely if you pull these teeth. At this point you may have other issues going on. The extractions could result in additional problems as they are oral surgery. But at the same time, none of those dentists can honestly tell you that these root canaled teeth are healthy in any way, shape or form and that they are not harboring diseased bacteria. I am sorry they are misleading you and misinforming you... but this is the norm. Just read through any number of posts on this forum from hundreds of people all over the world who have or are experiencing the same BS that you are.

It is up to you to do the research and become your own advocate. Google Dr Mercola and root canals, google Dr George Meinig one of the founders of the Endodontic Society who went against the tide and exposed the truth about root canaled teeth. Read his book.

I have given you all of the information that I can. It is up to you to decide if you think you should hang onto these teeth. I cannot predict the outcome of your dental future if you remove these teeth as there are many contributing factors in the removal, the health of the bone and the replacement options for your particular anatomy. I can only inform you of the path that you are on if you retain them.

I know this is all scary for you.. I feel badly that you are enduring this pain and BS from your dentists.... but only you can search for more knowledge that will help you make the best decision for you. Check out the IAOMT organization for a biological dentist (these dentists generally are better informed and more truthful) along with looking into the other leads of information that I have provided for you.

I do wish you well... I really do.

Bryanna

Thanks for your honesty, Bryanna. I have actually been wondering about how teeth got separated from the rest of our anatomy for a while. I still don't understand why health insurance doesn't cover teeth, as if they are a foreign part of our body. Or why dentists don't have to go med school, then specialize. Like eye doctors or GI doctors. I really don't know if teeth are more complicated than eyes or intestines, maybe they are. But my point is that they are still a part of the human body, and have the ability to affect more than just their tiny enamel-encased square footage.

This one stupid tooth in the back of my mouth has made me sick for almost a year. :/

The more I think about it, the more outraged I can become. But I suppose the unfortunate bottom line is that most doctors don't care about teeth, and most dentists don't care about the rest of us. My first endodontist, when questioned about my gum pain, said, "I don't really know very much about gums." WHAT?!? I tried to imagine my shoulder surgeon saying he didn't know much about necks.

Not sure where the tooth ends, and the person begins. But as person with tooth issues this is a very troubling issue, both personally and politically. I have read many of the questions and problems posted here, and I know how much pain a tooth can cause, and how much damage it can do in a person's whole body. When do we start looking at teeth the same way we look at kidneys and lungs and eyes?

Your post was good. You said it like it really is. The teeth are just as much a part of our bodies as eyes, etc. That remark where the dentist said he didn't know much about gums, was shocking. Not know about gums? and he is pulling teeth????? good grief, lets go back to the days of the barber, maybe we would be better off... hum.....ginnie

I saw the oral surgeon today. He saw my panoramic xray and actually took a 3d/cone beam scan. He was very nice and spent a good amount of time going over everything with me. He thinks there are a number of different issues at work here, given my tooth pain, jaw muscle pain, and numbness in the side of my face. Wants me to see a face pain specialist.

As far as the extraction, he numbed the area of the tooth and asked me if the pain went away; I suppose that's a good test of whether the extraction will get rid of the pain? It sort of helped, but when the anesthesia wore off, pain came back even worse. I think I am really sensitive to any injections in this area. But just now after I got home, I drank a glass of seltzer (which I almost never drink carbonated beverages) and I felt it very strongly in my tooth, which has been root canaled and is supposed to feel nothing. This is the same sensation I had last month before the second root canal on 19, which both the dentist and the endo attributed to that tooth (19, as 18 was already root-canaled). How can I still be sensitive to cold; does that mean that there is still living tissue in the root canaled tooth?

I want to go forward with the extraction, but don't want to complicate my situation with muscle pain. Should I wait and see yet another dentist/doctor? If I pull it, at least I will be eliminating one possible source of the pain, though even the guy who would be paid to pull it is saying it doesn't have to be pulled. Even the few injections I had this afternoon seem to irritate my jaw muscles and cause numbness, though it of course almost impossible to tell what is causing what right now.

I had root canal treatment for the first time on Monday. As I was leaving the surgery I was given an explanatory leaflet which stated ‘you may experience slight discomfort for a few days’.

Yeah right! If you wanna see a grown man cry, come round to my place. I am in agony.

I experienced no pain after the procedure on Monday, nor the next day. By halfway through Wednesday I was in agony. I guess the local anaesthetic had worn off by then.

I started taking paracetamol, but it didn’t help a lot. I only got one or two hours sleep that night. I couldn’t do a lot on Thursday except sit there in pain. In the evening I got my wife to drive me to a pharmacy and bought some Paramol, which is a combination of Paracetamol and Codeine. I’d already had my quota of Paracetamol for the day, so I shouldn’t have taken any, but I was desperate so I took a couple. Thankfully they worked, and I fell asleep straight away. After an hour or two I awoke in agony. The pain had radiated to my ear and the side of my head. I massaged gently in front of my ear and the pain subsided. I have no idea why. The pain was now bearable, but not absent. I sat up all night watching TV, without really taking it in because of the distraction of the pain.

At 6.30 in the morning I took another couple of Paramol and fell asleep for an hour or so. The problem is, you’re only supposed to take them every four hours, but the painkilling effect only lasts for a couple of hours at most, so I am in pain for at least 50% of the time.

I phoned the dental surgery when they opened and they said they’d give me a week’s supply of penicillin. I’ve started taking those now. They also said ‘continue taking the painkillers’. As if I could survive without them!

I am well placed to assess the difference between extraction and RCT because my wife had an extraction a couple of years ago. She had been in agony with one of her teeth. The dentist had offered her a choice of RCT or extraction, and she chose extraction. She said as soon as the tooth was out the pain was gone. She now has a gap in one row of lower molars, but she says it doesn’t cause her any problems.

I was offered the same choice. Now I feel like a mug for choosing RCT, especially when extraction would have been a much cheaper option.

Is RCT a scam? Depends on your point of view. Some patients die after heart surgery, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that heart surgery is a scam. Leaving aside the Mercola vs Dental Establishment debate, I find it a little unsettling that professionals can find it within their conscience to conduct a procedure that leaves patients in such excruciating pain.

At the very least I think the professional body for orthodontists should conduct a survey, by getting their members to give patients a questionnaire to be completed say six months after the RCT. The questions should be designed to provide the following data: what percentage of patients experience severe pain after RCT, how long does the severe pain last (minimum, maximum, average). Anyone still experiencing severe pain after six months should be sent a follow-up questionnaire.

It would also be good if RCT patients could be followed up to produce data showing how long before the tooth has to be extracted anyway, shown in groups e.g. less than five years after RCT, five to ten years, over ten years.

Prospective patients could then be given a leaflet with this info to help them decide whether to risk having RCT.

Correction - I meant endodontist not orthodontist

Sorry I meant 'endodontists'.

Hi m0ssman,

I am in the dental field and can offer you some information here. I will re post some of your thread and answer in bold type to make it easier to follow.

<<I experienced no pain after the procedure on Monday, nor the next day. By halfway through Wednesday I was in agony. I guess the local anaesthetic had worn off by then.>>

THE LOCAL ANESTHETIC HAD WORN OFF A FEW HOURS AFTER IT WAS INITIALLY GIVEN TO YOU. THE PAIN THAT YOU EXPERIENCED ON THE THIRD DAY IS NOT UNUSUAL BECAUSE THE TRAUMA AND INFLAMMATION FROM THE PROCEDURE HAD TAKEN HOLD OF THE TOOTH AND THE BACTERIA THAT REMAINS IN THE TOOTH WAS BUILDING UP WITH INTENSITY.

<<I started taking paracetamol, but it didn’t help a lot. I only got one or two hours sleep that night. I couldn’t do a lot on Thursday except sit there in pain. In the evening I got my wife to drive me to a pharmacy and bought some Paramol, which is a combination of Paracetamol and Codeine. I’d already had my quota of Paracetamol for the day, so I shouldn’t have taken any, but I was desperate so I took a couple.>>

THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY WHAT OFTEN OCCURS AFTER A ROOT CANAL PROCEDURE. THE AMOUNT OF PAIN KILLERS USED TO DULL THE PAIN CAN BE TOXIC IF NOT LETHAL.

<<Thankfully they worked, and I fell asleep straight away. After an hour or two I awoke in agony. The pain had radiated to my ear and the side of my head.>>

AGAIN COMMON BECAUSE THE INFLAMMATION IS BUILDING UP AS THE REMNANTS OF NERVE TISSUE STILL RESIDING INSIDE OF THE TOOTH ARE ON FIRE.

<< I massaged gently in front of my ear and the pain subsided. I have no idea why. The pain was now bearable, but not absent. I sat up all night watching TV, without really taking it in because of the distraction of the pain.>>

THE MASSAGE SIMPLY MOVED THE INFLAMMATION AROUND TO OTHER AREAS. BUT AS YOU SAID, IT DID NOT GET RID OF THE PAIN. SO THE INFLAMMATION IS STILL PRESENT.

<< I phoned the dental surgery when they opened and they said they’d give me a week’s supply of penicillin. I’ve started taking those now. They also said ‘continue taking the painkillers’. As if I could survive without them!>>

THE ANTIBIOTIC MAY TEMPORARILY SUBSIDE YOUR SYMPTOMS AS IT ACTS TO REDUCE SOME OF THE INFLAMMATION. HOWEVER THAT WILL BE SHORT LIVED AS THE ANTIBIOTIC CANNOT NOT KILL THE INFECTION THAT IS BREWING INSIDE OF THE TINY CANALS THAT WILL CONTINUE TO HARBOR NECROTIC NERVE TISSUE. THERE IS NO ACCESS TO THESE TINY CANALS SO THE NERVE CANNOT BE REMOVED FROM THEM IRRELEVANT OF HOW MANY TIMES OR WHO PERFORMS THE ROOT CANAL.

<<I am well placed to assess the difference between extraction and RCT because my wife had an extraction a couple of years ago. She had been in agony with one of her teeth. The dentist had offered her a choice of RCT or extraction, and she chose extraction. She said as soon as the tooth was out the pain was gone. She now has a gap in one row of lower molars, but she says it doesn’t cause her any problems.>>

GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOUR WIFE HAD A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE WITH HER EXTRACTION. THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO ATTEMPT TO CURE THE INFECTION IS TO REMOVE THE SOURCE OF THE INFECTION WHICH IS THE TOOTH. ANY OTHER DENTAL PROCEDURE IS ONLY A TEMPORARY MEASURE TO "RETAIN" AN UNHEALTHY TOOTH.

<<I was offered the same choice. Now I feel like a mug for choosing RCT, especially when extraction would have been a much cheaper option.>>

WELL PRICE SOMETIMES DRIVES PEOPLE TO CHOOSE ONE TREATMENT OVER THE OTHER. IN YOUR CASE YOU WERE PROBABLY TOLD THAT THE RCT WOULD CURE YOUR PROBLEM AND THAT IS WHAT YOU OPTED TO DO. IF YOU CHOOSE TO REMOVE THIS TOOTH WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO, YOUR DENTIST WOULD MOST LIKELY REIMBURSE YOU THE MONEY THAT YOU PAID FOR THE ROOT CANAL TREATMENT. IF YOU WAIT LONGER THAN THAT, HE WILL NOT FEEL OBLIGATED.

<<Is RCT a scam? Depends on your point of view.>>

RCT IS A SCAM IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT OFTEN INFORMED OF THE RISKS OF THE PROCEDURE OR HOW THE PROCEDURE DOES NOT CURE THE INFECTION PRIOR TO HAVING IT DONE. RCT IS A DENTAL PROCEDURE THAT SHOULD BE OFFERED TO PATIENTS BUT NOT WITHOUT THE FULL DISCLOSURE OF WHAT IT IS, HOW IT'S FLAWED AND WHAT THE SYSTEMIC HEALTH RISKS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH KEEPING AN UNHEALTHY TOOTH. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE PROPERLY INFORMED AND ONLY THEN CAN THEY MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHAT THEY FEEL IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST.

<< Some patients die after heart surgery, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that heart surgery is a scam.>>

WELL.... HEART SURGERY IS ACTUALLY IN A SIMILAR CATEGORY AS RCT IN THAT PATIENTS SHOULD BE INFORMED OF THE FLAWS AND RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROCEDURE. THEY SHOULD ALSO BE GIVEN INFORMATION ON OTHER TREATMENT/DIET/LIFESTYLE OPTIONS BEFORE CONSENTING TO THAT SURGERY.

<<Leaving aside the Mercola vs Dental Establishment debate, I find it a little unsettling that professionals can find it within their conscience to conduct a procedure that leaves patients in such excruciating pain.>>

IT'S BEST TO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND SEEK INFORMATION FROM REPUTABLE, WELL ESTABLISHED PRACTITIONERS/EXPERTS WHO ARE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THOSE TOPICS OF DENTISTRY THAT ARE OFTEN NEGLECTED TO BE MENTIONED BY MANY IN THE DENTAL PROFESSION.

EVERY PROFESSION, HEALTHCARE AND OTHER, HAVE SITUATIONS THAT LEAVE PEOPLE THINKING.......HOW CAN SOMEONE DO THAT TO ANOTHER PERSON? DENTISTRY IS NO DIFFERENT.

<<At the very least I think the professional body for orthodontists should conduct a survey, by getting their members to give patients a questionnaire to be completed say six months after the RCT. The questions should be designed to provide the following data: what percentage of patients experience severe pain after RCT, how long does the severe pain last (minimum, maximum, average). Anyone still experiencing severe pain after six months should be sent a follow-up questionnaire. >>

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AND FOR ONE REASON. THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS ARE IRRELEVANT AS EVERY ENDODONTIST ALREADY KNOWS THE RCT PROCEDURE IS FLAWED SIMPLY DUE TO THE ANATOMY OF THE TOOTH NOT ALLOWING ACCESS TO THE HUNDREDS+++ OF TINY CANALS AND THE FACT THAT AN INFECTED TOOTH CANNOT BE MADE HEALTHY AGAIN. IT IS EXPECTED THAT THE PATIENT WILL HAVE PAIN EITHER WITHIN A FEW DAYS OR SOME TIME DOWN THE ROAD. IT IS EXPECTED THAT THE TOOTH WILL EVENTUALLY NEED TO BE EXTRACTED. SOME ENDODONTISTS RECOMMEND RE ROOT CANALING TEETH EVERY FEW YEARS UNTIL EITHER THE PATIENT SAYS NO MORE OR THE TOOTH IS SO DECREPIT THAT IT CRUMBLES.

<<It would also be good if RCT patients could be followed up to produce data showing how long before the tooth has to be extracted anyway, shown in groups e.g. less than five years after RCT, five to ten years, over ten years.>>

THIS FOLLOW UP WOULD BE USELESS AS THERE ARE TOO MANY BIOLOGICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL VARIABLES THAT THE PATIENT IS UNAWARE OF WHICH WOULD RENDER THE COLLECTED DATA INSIGNIFICANT.

<<Prospective patients could then be given a leaflet with this info to help them decide whether to risk having RCT.>>

DENTAL PATIENTS SHOULD BE INFORMED BY THEIR DENTISTS OF THE ORAL AND SYSTEMIC CONSEQUENCES ASSOCIATED WITH RETAINING AN INFECTED TOOTH SO THEY CAN MAKE A PERSONAL DECISION AS TO WHETHER THEY ARE WILLING TO RISK THEIR HEALTH FOR THEIR TOOTH.

I hope this information answers your questions.

Thanks Bryanna, the info you provided is very useful.

Update
Friday night I took some Ibuprofen. Slept quite well. Saturday I didn't need any painkillers until mid afternoon. I am no longer in agony - just discomfort / mild pain. I don't know if I'm out of the woods yet or if there will be a flare-up. I'll post updates from time to time.

It's now a week since I had the RCT. Yesterday (Sunday) was my first day without any painkillers. No pain, just some discomfort in the jaw. I'm still taking the penicillin.

I'll post updates from time to time in case it helps anyone else who is going through the same experience.