[TheSleeper]

My wife is suffering from mouth pain in an area where she had a root canal done years ago, the pain is severe. She has been to a dentist and an endodontics? they cannot find a problem, every thing appears to be normal, although they did prescribe an anti-biotic and pain reliever.

They now want her to see a neurologist? Normal procedure? any one have any clues? The comment made was nerve damage or possible stress? Would this mean a mri needs to be done?

[Bryanna]

Hi SLeeper,

So sorry to hear your wife is having a toothache. Typically, all root canaled teeth will eventually show signs of infection. In your wifes case, her tooth may also be fractured. Something to think about....... If the dentist didn't think there was anything wrong with her tooth, why did he prescribe antibiotics? They frequently do this because they cannot identify any clinical or radiographic pathology, but they know something is brewing. The antibiotic may subside the symptoms temporarily, but the infection in a the tooth will not be cured and it will flare up again.

I see countless patients with your wifes symptoms........ she may have some form of neuralgia beginning, but there is a good possibility that it is caused by that root canaled tooth or a different infected tooth in that area. Frequently an infection spreads from one tooth to another or one area of the mouth to another. Unfortunately, the infection is usually silent until the inflammation starts to put pressure on the periodontal ligaments......that's when the tooth or area starts to hurt.

When there is an infection in a tooth and it has proliferated into the bone surrounding the tooth, which typically happens to root canaled teeth, the painful area will mimic facial neuralgia. Radiographs are just 2 dimensional pictures so they are only helpful to a point. A dental panoramic film shows a different angle of the upper and lower jaws on the same film and this type of xray can be more diagnostic than a routine periapical or bitewing xray.

She could have an CT Scan or MRI done, but it would have to be specific for dental anatomy showing various slices of the jawbone to be able to pick up any abnormality.

Generally, the only solution that cures the pain completely is removal of the infected (root canaled) tooth along with the periodontal ligament that holds the tooth in the jawbone. It has been my professional experience that the earlier the offending tooth is removed the more successful the outcome.

Please let us know how she is doing.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by TheSleeper

My wife is suffering from mouth pain in an area where she had a root canal done years ago, the pain is severe. She has been to a dentist and an endodontics? they cannot find a problem, every thing appears to be normal, although they did prescribe an anti-biotic and pain reliever.

They now want her to see a neurologist? Normal procedure? any one have any clues? The comment made was nerve damage or possible stress? Would this mean a mri needs to be done?

[TheSleeper]

Thanks for the info Bryanna! She had x-rays taken, I will have to ask her if they were Panoramic, I know our dentist does have that equipment.

I also wondered, if nothing found why antibiotics? Neither one she saw was able to see a problem. LOL she is a little nervous that they think she is crazy, they mentioned nerves or stress.

As a person that had some difficulty getting a dx for my PPMS I am used to some lame dx`es. We will search until the proper cause is found.

She has to see or PCP Thursday and I imagine he will refer her to a neuro. Although she has some discomfort the Motrin seems to be controlling it.

Thanks for your thoughts on it!

[watsonsh]

Thanks for that explanation Bryanna!

I was having pain upper back right where the three teeth are root canaled and has a bridge.

Sure enough one has an infection and now I have to go for a re-root canal. Dentist is sending me to specialist

He also said that he thought a couple other root canals might have some decay and wants to clean it up before it gets bad.

Who'd a thought that a root canal could go bad

[Bryanna]

Hi Shelley,

You may not like what I'm about to say........ but in all fairness to you and everyone else who is reading this....... it's your right to be informed before you move ahead with re treating a root canaled tooth.

So WAIT before you give consent to go ahead and let them re root canal any tooth, please do some thorough research on the subject.

I know the last thing you want to do is lose your teeth, but please educate yourself on the risks associated with keeping infected teeth in your mouth verses extracting them.

ALL root canaled teeth are infected, period. There is no way to sterilze a tooth because the <millions> of curvy microscopic canals that contain necrotic nerve material cannot be accessed by any form of instrumentation, laser, medicaments ... nothing. The only canals that are <somewhat> debrided are the large canals that are <visual> by the eye or on a radiograph. Even these large canals are often missed because they can run parallel to other canals and cannot be picked up on an xray. During the debridment of the large accessible canals, the nerve material that is not removed is pressed into these microscopic canals causing even more inflammation. This is one, of several, reasons why people often have post operative pain immediately following the root canal procedure. It is the inflammation within these tiny canals called dentin tubules that is causing the pain. Some other things that frequently happen during a root canal procedure are...... the root (apex) of the tooth gets perforated thus pushing infected material or filling material into the bone, a file or reemer can be pushed through the side of a root into the bone, and a tooth can become fractured from all the instrumentation. Many times, these things go unnoticed until the patients complaining of post operative pain gets annoying (seriously!!) or if they are noticed at the time of the procedure, attempts are made to <patch> them up.

The immune system has a marvelous way of lessening symptoms of chronic inflammation which is exactly what happens after a root canal is done. However sooner or later, the immune system gets busy with something else and then these other areas of infection, in this case root canaled teeth, start to show signs of <failure>.

Root canals do not fail, your body does not reject them, they are a flawed procedure right from the get go! It makes no difference if the procedure is done by a specialist (endodontist) or a general dentist........ there is no way to access the dentin tubules in any tooth, in any person no matter what is done.

Every person has the right to choose what treatment is in their best interest. Perhaps the only way to know what that is, is to be well informed of the risks associated with your treatment choices.

Sometimes picture tells a thousand words.....
http://crobm.iadrjournals.org/cgi/co...ll/13/2/171/F1

The light gray areas with the darker gray lines surrounding the large canal is the dentin tubules. Too many to count!

Again, I know this is not fun stuff to read or think about. But my intention is to bring forth the truth of the matter so everyone has the opportunity to choose what is right for them. One could also choose to ignore it, that's ok with me too ~'.'~

If you would like to discuss this further or just tell us your thoughts.... we'd like to hear from you!

Bryanna

Originally Posted by shelley

Thanks for that explanation Bryanna!

I was having pain upper back right where the three teeth are root canaled and has a bridge.

Sure enough one has an infection and now I have to go for a re-root canal. Dentist is sending me to specialist

He also said that he thought a couple other root canals might have some decay and wants to clean it up before it gets bad.

Who'd a thought that a root canal could go bad

[Bryanna]

Hi Sleeper,

Your wife is among millions of people who have the exact same symptoms and have been told they have no <real> problem! Many times it is a tooth problem and the cause is the chronic infection in the tooth that has spread to the surrounding bone irritating the nerve, etc.

Conventional dentists/specialists, will treat this with an antbiotic and pain meds once, twice, maybe even three times. Then suggest a retreatment of the root canal, which will do nothing ...... then an apicoectomy which is a painful surgical procedure that again does nothing to cure the infected tooth. However, the apico does add more inflammation and additional irritation to the already inflammed area.

Motrin seems to subside the pain because it is an anti-inflammatory drug that works on reducing nerve inflammation. However, this is not a cure.

If at all possible, seek an opinion from a Biological dentist. Perhaps the IAOMT site could offer you some insight to finding one in your area.

Please let us know how she is doing!

Bryanna

Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Thanks for the info Bryanna! She had x-rays taken, I will have to ask her if they were Panoramic, I know our dentist does have that equipment.

I also wondered, if nothing found why antibiotics? Neither one she saw was able to see a problem. LOL she is a little nervous that they think she is crazy, they mentioned nerves or stress.

As a person that had some difficulty getting a dx for my PPMS I am used to some lame dx`es. We will search until the proper cause is found.

She has to see or PCP Thursday and I imagine he will refer her to a neuro. Although she has some discomfort the Motrin seems to be controlling it.

Thanks for your thoughts on it!

[TheSleeper]

Bryanna, an update. My wife saw our PCP today, walked out with 3 rx`es and an appointment with a neuro.

I also looked at your info on the type of dentist? Our previous dentist is listed on the link, had to leave him due to an insurance change. Still might send her there if we get double talk on the issue.

Thanks again! We will let you know what direction this leads.

Paul

[Bryanna]

Hi Paul,

Just some FYI.......... Thirty years I'm in dentistry....... I have never been able to justify leaving the practice of one dentist and going to a another dentist because they particiapted in insurance. Dentistry is expensive and sometimes it means taking out a loan or budgeting our money differently for awhile to get through some of it. It is also disheartening to have dental insurance and not be able to use it! But what are you really trading off??

Most patients switch because they feel it's less expensive. Can I tell you the truth?? It may look that way in the numbers, but in the long run, it can actually end up costing you more. You will only get what you pay for. Keep in mind, I am the one who works on the other side of the patient, so I know what goes on.......... no one wants to work for less money, no one will give you quality care for less money, and no one will seek additional education if they are only going to practice insurance guided care.

There are reasons why a dentist chooses not to participate in HMO type dental plans offered today and it's not because they will earn more money if they don't participate. It's because they don't want the dental treatment to be governed by the insurance policy because they know the limitations of the insurance and they know the lack of patient compliance if the suggested treatment is not paid by the patients insurance.

I share this information with you and others to help you become as equally informed as those of us who are in the profession. I know how expensive dental care can be but I also know why it is so expensive. A good dentist is a well trained tooth carpenter and an artist. Working on teeth is incredibly tedious and every aspect of the work has to be done precisely. The overhead in running this type of business is huge! The state of the art practices which are usually the most educated hire experienced/credentialed staff; use outstanding dental labs to fabricate their crowns, bridges, etc; perform all of the necessary steps to provide proper sterilization and never cut corners; purchase quality hi tech equipment to help get the job done faster and easier for the patient; and they often times have extra niceties for the patients comfort. That's just a glimpse into the subject.

We see and talk to numerous patients every day who thought they were getting their monies worth by seeing an insurance dentist. I wish I could tell you that these patients were taken care of properly, but most of the time, they weren't. To me, it is incredilby disheartening and something really needs to be done to change it!

So Paul go with your gut instinct and if you feel you are getting the run around and all your wife is getting are prescription meds, please search for an answer elsewhere. The longer this condition goes on, the harder it is to remedy it.

Please continue to keep us updated!

Bryanna

Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Bryanna, an update. My wife saw our PCP today, walked out with 3 rx`es and an appointment with a neuro.

I also looked at your info on the type of dentist? Our previous dentist is listed on the link, had to leave him due to an insurance change. Still might send her there if we get double talk on the issue.

Thanks again! We will let you know what direction this leads.

Paul

[Wiix]

Originally Posted by TheSleeper

My wife is suffering from mouth pain in an area where she had a root canal done years ago, the pain is severe. She has been to a dentist and an endodontics? they cannot find a problem, every thing appears to be normal, although they did prescribe an anti-biotic and pain reliever.

They now want her to see a neurologist? Normal procedure? any one have any clues? The comment made was nerve damage or possible stress? Would this mean a mri needs to be done?

I've had a few root canals done then caps. They are all gone now and I have a partial where they all were. The teeth with the big fillings are still there, it's ALL the caps that the teeth HAD to go. They All got infected or broke off or both. I got septic a few times from infections up inside the root and had to have them extracted and still was sick for at least a month afterwards. Mouth infections CAN kill you. I had a 27 year old nephew die from his bad teeth. But his were all rotted to the gumline and abcessed. That side of the family lived in the woods like Hillbillies and I don't think any of them Ever brushed their teeth.

I've had the kind of pain you are talking about and fooling around with exrays and antibiotics is just a waste of time, it HAS to come out in order for it to drain. I know it's hard to decide but you are far better off without it once it has gone south on you. Rotted teeth and roots don't heal they only get worse. Getting older is NO fun.

[jon]

Many years ago, I had root canal surgery with postop symtoms similar to yours. My endodonist couldn't understand the continuing terrible pain. He wrote to the journals, etc., but received no help.

Years later, I ran into him and he told me he had finally found why I had so much trouble and that there was now help from my neurologist. My neuro gave me neurontin for peripheral neurapathy. It was supposed to help with pain but all it did was cause my eyes to blur, so I stopped taking it. After talking with the endodonist, I tried taking one pill when I had a bout with recurring jaw pain. Boom! The jaw pain stopped, I stopped the neurotin and didn't take it until next time. Same results.

You might ask your neurologist about neurontin or something similar. You might have developed PN with all the insults to your nerves during surgery.

Good luck in dealing with this. Antibiotics did me no good, either.

Jon