Hello. I'm a bit sad that I didn't get any advice to my question in regards to root canal and Lyme. Maybe it was too complicated. So I currently have 4 root canaled teeth and one tooth that I was told would need a root canal if it continues to hurt because the filling is so close to the root already that's there. So say I was to remove all these root canaled teeth plus the one that's hurting, that would be 5 teeth. 3 are all on one side in a row on the bottom. What is the protocol? Am I just supposed to have empty spaces there? Or grandma false teeth? I'm too young. It's embarrassing. What do people do? This is not an easy decision. This is scary to me. But if my teeth are making me sick. ......

Hi dorynoel,

I read your previous post. You are truly in a compromising situation and there really is no comfortable advice to offer you. But since you have posted again, I feel compelled to inform you of at least some things that you may or may not have become aware of through your own research.

Anything that causes additional stress on your system is going to make the Lymes symptoms that much more furious. Which means you really cannot tolerate a chronic infection as it will only cause further burden to your immune system.

There is no question that root canaled teeth harbor necrotic infectious nerve tissue inside the several hundred tiny canals referred to as dentin tubules or accessory canals. This is not a controversial issue, it is an anatomical fact. All dentists know this but because they are not taught to think of it as a systemic health problem, they will repetitively perform the root canal procedure or perform a surgical root canal referred to as an apicoectomy as many times as the patient will allow them to. When root canaled teeth show signs or radio-graphic pathology of an infection it is considered "normal" simply because these things are "typically" seen with root canaled teeth due to the infection brewing inside of those dentin tubules. Antibiotics cannot cure this type of infection as a biofilm of bacteria has formed preventing anything from getting to it. However, the infection is able to proliferate throughout the tooth, into the bone and beyond. This whole process excites the immune system to send cells to fight the infection. Irrelevant of one's health, this process is never healthy but for those who are already compromised with a chronic disease, like Lymes, this chronic infection can make their systemic health very poor.

The only attempt at curing an infected tooth is to remove the tooth. Every other procedure will have no long term positive affect and the infection will continue to compromise the immune system.

Replacement of these teeth will be limited for you due to your Lyme's disease because dental implants would be risky given your health status. You may be a candidate for some removable bridgework or for a removable partial denture. These are things you would need to discuss with your restorative dentist. If you choose to remove these teeth, I urge you to see an oral surgeon to perform the extractions rather than a general dentist. The oral surgeon has much more knowledge and experience in this type of oral surgery and they are use to treating patients with chronic disease and a compromised immune system.

Regarding the rest of your oral health, it is best to take exceptionally good care of your teeth and have preventive exams and cleanings twice a year to prevent anything from becoming a big problem.

I know this is a very difficult situation to be in and I wish I could offer you better news. The most important aspect of all of this is..... what is best for your health ..... and only you can decide what feel that is.

Please keep us posted on how you are doing.

Dory...I'm not a dental professional, but one of my doctors who is getting more and more into holistic medicine told me that generally speaking he does not recommend the removal of rc teeth, but does recommend that his patients STOP getting root canals. yYou might start the process of looking for a top notch specialist in case down the road you need to remove that troubled tooth. It would take someone extra knowledgable to fully understand the complexities of your situation, esp. if you want to try getting an implant. I love this link that has general dental advice, but would add what I just said about not removing existing root canals, but also not getting any from this point forward (only my thoughts based on what my doc said)
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/...aolshare_email

Bryanna...as you likely will remember, I have Sjogrens Syndrome. Ironically, it was dx'd during my dental fiasco. During the fiasco, I was advised to have a rod of some kind put in my tooth (major, crazy pain), a root canal, pulled tooth....tons of antibiotics, tons of pain meds....pretty crazy since I started with no pain at all. Some of my friends think all that craziness actually gave me both Sj Syndrome and Trig. Neuralgia.

I speak with many folks with Sj. Syndrome and of course those with Trig. Neuralgia.

Many Sj. Syndrome Folks like myself go for professional cleanings three or even four times a year. Do you see any possible disadvantage going so frequently? (I go 3x a year for cleanings...previously went twice a year).

I do ask the hygienist to use caution on the side of my face where the damage is. She also swabs my mouth with a numbing agent (just a little) and I ask her to do only a bare minimum of polishing at the end.

I'm frightened because having a autoimmune disease like this and nerve damage likely means few choices for me as well...I'm really scared. This is coming from someone who had few problems previous to the fiasco and went to the dentist for her cleanings religiously twice a year.

Hello Bryanna,

Thank you for your reply. I truly appreciate you taking time to offer your advice and experience. Unfortunately I didn't see this response until now. I ended up asking advice from my PCP, my podiatrist and my two friends one is a nurse and the other a nurse practitioner. I was feeling desperate and in need of guidance on this difficult issue. I read a lot of the blogs here and the information you provided to others. I also read Dr Mercola's article and some others on the Internet. It was all so very overwhelming. I asked my PCP if my tooth could be the cause of my symptom flare up. She said definitely. She looked in my mouth and said my gums looked red and inflamed where I was having the issue. My podiatrist was interested in my Lyme story and we began discussing the tooth issues. She said the tooth could be the cause of all my nausea and increased symptoms. However when I told her about the root canal theory she didn't agree with it. She said that bone is porous and antibiotics are capable of clearing all the infection. She claimed to have 22 root canals. So this confused me. She said to be careful of what you read on the Internet and to make sure it's from a credible source and has a reference list of peer reviewed research. My one nurse friend sent me a link to this blog site (which is how I found it? and she believed root canals are bad. My other friend felt the tooth could be the issue. So with all that, I finally went to the dentist yesterday. He determined that the tooth still causing me pain is the root canaled one as opposed to the one behind it. He thinks the pain is radiating which is why I also feel it on the one behind it. So he said my options were to go to the oral surgeon and have it cleaned out and try to save it or to pull it. I decided to have it pulled. He said he can do it right then, so I agreed (didn't see your post yet about going to an oral surgeon). At this point I just wanted it out already. So I hope it's not going to be a problem. He did take out my wisdom tooth in the past and that turned out okay. But I don't think I'm ready to begin pulling out the other root canaled teeth at this time. This is just so overwhelming and pulling a tooth is absolutely NOT fun that's for sure lol. I hope by taking out that tooth, which has been an issue for probably about a year to a year and a half now, I will begin to feel better. This tooth was an ongoing issue before the root canal was done. Teeth problems are no fun. I have to wait and see now what happens with the tooth that was behind the root canal, because that was borderline. He said it could be radiating pain from the root canaled tooth or it could be because it had a deep filling in it. I'm hoping it doesn't hurt anymore. So now I have 3 other root canaled teeth left in my mouth. I will look like a pumpkin if I take them out. He said I can do an implant, a bridge or a removable denture. What do you recommend?

Sincerely,
Dorynoel

Hi dorynoel,

I am going to re post some of your thread and answer you in bold type.

<<I read a lot of the blogs here and the information you provided to others. I also read Dr Mercola's article and some others on the Internet. It was all so very overwhelming. I asked my PCP if my tooth could be the cause of my symptom flare up. She said definitely. She looked in my mouth and said my gums looked red and inflamed where I was having the issue. >>

I KNOW THE INFORMATION CAN BE OVERWHELMING ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FEEL YOU ARE IN A CRITICAL SITUATION. IT IS ALSO VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT YOU HAVE TO SEE SO MANY "DOCTORS" TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT CAN AFFECT THE HEALTH AND QUALITY OF YOUR LIFE. YOUR PCP IS WISE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN YOUR ORAL AND SYSTEMIC HEALTH AS THIS IS BASIC BIOLOGY THAT SHE LEARNED EARLY ON IN HER EDUCATION.

<< My podiatrist was interested in my Lyme story and we began discussing the tooth issues. She said the tooth could be the cause of all my nausea and increased symptoms. However when I told her about the root canal theory she didn't agree with it. She said that bone is porous and antibiotics are capable of clearing all the infection. >>

JUST STOP AND THINK FOR ONE MINUTE ABOUT WHAT THIS "DR" TOLD YOU. ON ONE HAND SHE ADMITS THE SYSTEMIC CONNECTION BETWEEN ORAL AND OVERALL HEALTH TELLING YOU THIS TOOTH COULD BE INCREASING YOUR SYMPTOMS. IN THE NEXT BREATH SHE NOT ONLY CONTRADICTS HERSELF BUT GIVES YOU 100% FALSE INFORMATION ABOUT THE ROOT CANAL ISSUE. SHE OBVIOUSLY KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE ANATOMY OF TEETH, WHICH IS NO SURPRISE SINCE SHE WAS NEVER TAUGHT ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. HOWEVER SHE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE PATHOLOGY AND ISCHEMIA ASSOCIATED WITH KEEPING DEAD BONE (WHICH IS WHAT THE RC TOOTH IS) ANY PLACE IN THE BODY.

<<She claimed to have 22 root canals. So this confused me. >>

PLENTY OF PEOPLE HAVE MULTIPLE ROOT CANALED TEETH IN THEIR MOUTH AND PLENTY OF PEOPLE HAVE CANCER, AUTO IMMUNE DISEASE, DIABETES.... ETC. SO FROM A SYSTEMIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE, SHE IS CLUELESS.

<< She said to be careful of what you read on the Internet and to make sure it's from a credible source and has a reference list of peer reviewed research.>>

I AGREE WITH HER ON THAT! EVERYTHING I HAVE STATED ON THIS SITE IS FROM DECADES OF CREDIBLE SOURCES. SHE ON THE OTHER HAND SHOULD BE CAREFUL OF WHERE SHE IS GETTING HER (MIS)INFORMATION FROM AS HER PATIENTS ARE TRUSTING HER TO BE AN INFORMED PHYSICIAN.

<<I finally went to the dentist yesterday. He determined that the tooth still causing me pain is the root canaled one as opposed to the one behind it. He thinks the pain is radiating which is why I also feel it on the one behind it. So he said my options were to go to the oral surgeon and have it cleaned out and try to save it or to pull it. I decided to have it pulled. He said he can do it right then, so I agreed (didn't see your post yet about going to an oral surgeon). At this point I just wanted it out already. So I hope it's not going to be a problem.>>

I HOPE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR YOU EITHER.

<<So now I have 3 other root canaled teeth left in my mouth. I will look like a pumpkin if I take them out.>>

DECIDING TO REMOVE YOUR TEETH IS NOT AN EASY OR PLEASANT DECISION FOR ANYONE. HOWEVER THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT SOMETHING OCCURRED, DECAY/TRAUMA/LACK OF DENTAL CARE, TO CAUSE THESE TEETH TO BE UNHEALTHY. THE CONSEQUENCES OF RETAINING UNHEALTHY TEETH CAN CONTRIBUTE OR CAUSE IRREVERSIBLE BONE DAMAGE, OTHER TEETH TO BECOME UNHEALTHY AND SYSTEMIC ILLNESS. NO DENTIST WANTS TO TELL THEIR PATIENTS TO REMOVE THEIR TEETH.... ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REPLACEMENT OPTIONS ARE LIMITED DUE TO FINANCES, BONE LOSS, INFECTION, COMPROMISED HEALTH...... ETC.

<<He said I can do an implant, a bridge or a removable denture. What do you recommend? >>

PEOPLE WITH LYME DISEASE MAY NOT BE GOOD CANDIDATE FOR DENTAL IMPLANTS DUE TO THEIR COMPROMISED IMMUNE SYSTEM. A BRIDGE MEANS HE HAS TO CUT DOWN OTHER TEETH PUTTING THOSE TEETH IN A COMPROMISED STATE. HOWEVER DEPENDING ON THE HEALTH OF THOSE TEETH AND THE SKILLS OF THE DENTIST, A BRIDGE COULD BE A WISE OPTION. ROOT CANALED TEETH SHOULD NEVER BE ANCHOR TEETH TO ANY BRIDGE AS THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY ENOUGH TO BEAR THE BURDEN OF THE BRIDGE. A REMOVABLE DENTURE IS NOT THE MOST PLEASANT THING IN THE WORLD ALTHOUGH MOST PEOPLE EVENTUALLY GET ADJUSTED TO THEM.

I PERSONALLY RECOMMEND THAT BEFORE DOING ANY REPLACEMENT WORK, THAT YOU HAVE A COMPLETE COMPREHENSIVE DENTAL EXAMINATION AND FULL SERIES OF X-RAYS. DISCUSS A TREATMENT PLAN WITH YOUR DENTIST TO TAKE CARE OF ANY DECAY AND/OR GUM PROBLEMS AND REMOVE ALL SOURCES OF CHRONIC INFECTION. ONCE YOU HAVE THAT IN PLACE THEN YOUR REPLACEMENT OPTIONS WILL NARROWED DOWN TO WHAT WILL WORK BEST FOR YOUR OVERALL SITUATION.

Hello Bryanna,

Thanks so much for your reply. I unfortunately
Have a DMO. This limits my dentist choices. I searched tirelessly for a biological dentist in my area but none are in my DMO plan. During the open enrollment period I can change my plan which will allow me more flexibility in choosing a dentist. So I am thinking I may let this heal and wait it out and change out of the DMO plan so then Iwill have the flexibility to see a biological dentist in my area. I found a few. Can you offer advice on how to make a decision amongst them? So I can try to choose the better dentist? I truly know nothing about picking a dentist. How long will it take for this to heal? Stop hurting? Swelling to go down? Typically? How long before I know I'm in the clear for infection? Thanks so much!

Hi Dorynoel,

<<Have a DMO. This limits my dentist choices. I searched tirelessly for a biological dentist in my area but none are in my DMO plan.>>

THE REASON THEY DO NOT PARTICIPATE IS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT THE INSURANCE COMPANY TO DICTATE THE DENTAL TREATMENT. IN OTHER WORDS THESE DENTISTS ARE NOT WILLING TO PERFORM PROCEDURES WHEN THEY ARE NOT NECESSARY OR BENEFICIAL FOR THE PATIENT JUST BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY FOR THEM.

<< During the open enrollment period I can change my plan which will allow me more flexibility in choosing a dentist. So I am thinking I may let this heal and wait it out and change out of the DMO plan so then Iwill have the flexibility to see a biological dentist in my area. >>

WHEN SEARCHING FOR A DENTIST WITHIN A PARTICULAR INSURANCE PLAN, PLEASE BE MINDFUL THAT DENTISTS OPT OUT OF INS PLANS FREQUENTLY. SO ONE DAY HE MAY PARTICIPATE AND NOT THE NEXT.

<<Can you offer advice on how to make a decision amongst them? So I can try to choose the better dentist? >>

IDEALLY CHOSE A DENTIST WHO DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY INSURANCE PLAN AS THIS DENTIST WILL TREAT YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL. MANY NON PARTICIPATING DENTISTS OFFER VARIOUS FINANCIAL DISCOUNTS OR PAYMENT PLANS TO NON INSURED PATIENTS. KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU ARE PAYING A PREMIUM AMOUNT TO CARRY THE INSURANCE ON TOP OF YOUR OUT OF POCKET COSTS FOR DENTAL CARE. SO WEIGH OUT IF THE ACTUAL INSURANCE BENEFIT DOLLARS ARE WORTH WHAT IT COST YOU TO HAVE IT.

OTHER THAN THAT... IT IS BEST TO SEE A DENTIST WHO IS NOT USING ANTIQUATED EQUIPMENT AND HAS THE MORE RECENT EQUIPMENT, ONE WHO FOLLOWS THE PROPER AMALGAM REMOVAL PROTOCOL AND DOESN'T SNICKER AT THE MENTION OF THE TOXICITY OF MERCURY OR ROOT CANALS, DIGITAL XRAYS, A HYGIENIST, A CLEAN AND UPDATED OFFICE, ONE WHO FOCUSES ON YOU AND IS NOT DISTRACTED BY OTHER THINGS GOING ON WHILE YOU ARE IN HIS CHAIR, ONE WHO STRIVES TO MAKE YOUR VISIT COMFORTABLE RATHER THAN ONE WHO MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE YOU JUST HAVE TO GRIN AND BEAR IT, AND THE OFFICE STAFF SHOULD BE CLEAN, NEAT AND KNOWLEDGEABLE.

<<How long will it take for this to heal? Stop hurting? Swelling to go down? Typically? How long before I know I'm in the clear for infection?>>

THE HEALING DEPENDS ON MANY THINGS.... YOUR OVERALL HEALTH, YOUR DIET AND HOW WELL YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF POST OPERATIVELY, THE SITE OF THE INFECTION AND HOW DEEP AND WIDESPREAD IT IS, THE WORK OF THE SURGEON AND HOW STERILE AND THOROUGH THE PROCEDURE WAS, ETC.
EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT RATE OF HEALING. IF AT ANYTIME YOU FEEL YOU ARE NOT HEALING OR YOU DEVELOP SYMPTOMS OF A SYSTEMIC INFECTION LIKE FEVER, SWOLLEN GLANDS, ILL HEALTH.... THEN SEE THE ORAL SURGEON FOR EVALUATION.

Hi dory noel,
Thank you for sharing how you're getting on with your dental issues in conjunction with Lyme disease. Also thank you for re-posting your original question after receiving no replies: I too had the same lack of response when I posted a query on 06/13/14 "Advice needed re root canal v extraction" - my auto-immune complication is Primary Addison's disease (adrenal failure) and like you I assumed it was in the too hard to answer category. I was trying to decide on either root canal or extraction - however things changed when I went back to the dentist and he said it might be Trigmenal Neuralgia after the pain pierced straight through the anesthetic he'd given me while doing a small filling. I've been keeping a 'pain log' for the past month and see my GP next week to start what is likely to be a long wait for a confirmed diagnosis (current waiting time for a 'routine' appt. for a neurologist under my country's Public Health system is 4-12 months)
I hope you are progressing with your search for successful treatment and please keep letting us know how you get on and what works for you. Stay strong.

Also to Bryanna and Vowel Lady - thank you for posting replies to dory noel - the information has been very useful - even in a general sense of how to approach the problem. I understand it is difficult to reply to people with dental issues complicated by auto-immune (and other) conditions - especially as everyone has individual issues but your supportive advice is like a light in the dark. Please keep up the great work - I have learnt so much since discovering NeuroTalk and feel more empowered to question the medical professionals I have to consult.
Regards bluesfan

bluesfan

I'm so sorry you might have TN and that you have a autoimmune illness as well.

I actually had minor symptoms of Sjogrens Syndrome, until a dentist pulled my tooth and put in a graph in preparation for a dental implant.

My entire life/world turned upside down as the result of dental mishaps and/or dental greed. I can't warn people enough of the dangers out there.

Originally, I went to a dentist for an onlay. Lots of mess ups and continued inappropriate care.
In an effort to stop the pain, I agreed to a root canal (made things worse) and then agreed to removal of my tooth. Finally, an oral surgeon/MD carefully revealed to me that I likely had TN caused by the original dentist and needed to see a neurologist.

A greedy dentist who says he is affiliated with that holistic group (will try to get the initials later) is the one who pulled the tooth. No doubt, it should have been an oral surgeon. Just pulling the tooth was stupid. Putting in the graph was even stupider. My guess, he knew this.

I started to physically not feel well (this is on top of severe, heavy duty pain!) Then, when he put in the graph OMG, I got super duper sick. I got a relentless fever, dry mouth and just felt sickly. I was on antibiotic after antibiotic. After many weeks, I removed the graph and almost instantly, the fever abated. BUT, during the turmoil discovered that I had Sjogren's Syndrome. And, interestingly, SS Symptoms were now coming in at 100 mph.

No doubt there are good dentists out there, but I am amazed at how many dentists get away with inappropriate care.

To my shock, I discovered many others who after simple dental procedures are left with a lifetime of pain from Trigeminal Neuralgia. I honestly believe that in my case, it was inappropriate treatment. I think in other cases, it is just an unfortunate result. But what irks me to no end is how many dentists do not know about TN, don't care to know about TN, don't consider TN...etc.

I am doing my best to learn about EXCELLENT dental hygiene. One of my SS acquaintances (she is in her 80s!!!!!) has been through A LOT! She had to have an implant and I believe she was able to do it without a graph. She found an outstanding oral surgeon that specializes in implants. She tells me repeatedly that I have to find an A+ dentist and oral surgeon and to ask around constantly about who has the best reputation as this is urgent. She also told me that since she has been doing the following...she has had little to no problems with cavities, etc.:
1. Brushing three times a day 2. Flossing every night 3. Water Pik every night (or at least close to it)
4. Professional cleanings three times a year 5. Eat well/eliminate sugar from diet

Others have told me to rinse daily with water and and a little baking soda (on top of excellent dental hygiene).

Bottom line: avoid the dentist like the plague (and avoid plaque too!) (See, I still have a tiny bit of a sense of humor left)

I go to a TN group on face book and other sites. It is good to get support. The TN site here is also helpful. It is a very difficult experience. I just discovered a possible helpful product when the pain is within the mouth, for occasional use:
Blistex Kanka Soft Brush tooth/Mouth Pain Gel (professional strength)
It seems to be a brush with lidocaine on it for use within the mouth!
Seems some TN folks use it at times when they have pain in the mouth area.
Available at Amazon. I've ordered it to add to my arsenal.

I hope you are able to get to a good neurologist soon to make a final determination to see if you have Trigeminal Neuralgia or what is sometimes called Atypical Trigeminal Neuralgia. My doctor and I had to do a lot of experimentation with different medications and although I still have breakthrough pain and periods of time that are very rough, I do have many more good days now with proper medication on board. Sending good thoughts.

Wishing you well!