Hi there. I posted previously about a root canal issue, but now I have a new terrible issue. Bryanna, or anyone who has experience, I would appreciate your advice greatly. I had an infection between my upper right wisdom tooth and molar next to it. I got my wisdom tooth taken out on November 14th. about 7 days after wisdom tooth extracted I had some pain in jaw, ear and figured I had a minor dry socket and did not return to have it seen right away. But when I did, the dentist said it looked fine (although he didn't have a good look because he was examining the molar next for the root canal issue). The jaw pain came and went. Then I had a root canal retreated on Dec 5th. A few days after, I started experiencing real tenderness above my wisdom tooth extraction site (something seemed to have flared up). Now, days later, the pain is so intense. There doesn't seem to be pain around the root canal - I just went back to see the specialist that did the root canal retreatment and he said aside from some inflammation behind the tooth and it bleeding easily, the pain and inflammation is moreso at the wisdom tooth extraction site. Extreme tenderness to touch and throbbing behind the site (not directly in the socket) and up into my upper gums behind the extraction site. Radiating horrible and intense pain in my jaw, TMJ, ear, and a little bit down my neck. Went to see GP today and she said it might be an infection back there. She put me on strong antibiotics intended for oral infections/bacteria and did bloodworm. And she also put in for me to have an urgent MRI on my jaw, which I should have scheduled within 2 weeks. I have no idea what this pain is from. Perhaps I had a dry socket that wasn't treated and an infection has developed? I am in SO much pain and painkillers don't see to be helping. This is not pain I had when I had the original infection way back in November. That was just a feeling of irritation. This is so much worse and different. I feel like I don't know what to do as the dentist, specialist, and doctor all seem to be at a loss. The specialist also checked for a root tip left and said there was none and that the sinus does not appear to be perforated. If antibiotics don't clear this up, I don't know what to do. I'm supposed to get my root canal retreatment finished next week but cannot bear the thought of having any more pain in that area until this clears up. Any advice is so appreciated. Thank you.

Wow hang in there! Did they give you any painkillers? I have found they usually say take advil (which did nothing for me but maybe will help you). Throbbing pain is usually infection you should feel better if you are going to in 2-3 days on antibiotics. Though they say bacteria die off can cause a bit of flare up to. They give you a ten day course? Take the whole course of antibiotics. I sure hope you feel better soon. Oh couple questions is this pain constant? Does it occur only with pressure? In only one spot or several? Seems suspicious it happened after the root canal procedure.

Pam

I am not a doctor or a dentist just familiar with pain. So anything I say is just out if empathy don't listen to it if you don't want to.

CWMB,

Please re read my replies to your original posts. I answered all of these concerns that you currently have now in those posts. The reason you had an infection between your 2nd and 3rd molar was because your 2nd molar is root canaled and the bacteria from that tooth had proliferated beyond the tooth. Removing the wisdom tooth eliminated only one aspect of the problem as the original and continual source of infection is the second molar.

Just to reiterate, it is irrelevant how many times a tooth is root canaled, the tooth remains infected as there is no access to the hundreds of tiny canals inside of the tooth. Those canals harbor infected nerve tissue which renders the tooth very diseased. You may have had a dry socket in the wisdom tooth site which could have resulted in a cavitation which would cause you pain. However, your second molar is infected and will remain that way irrelevant of the re treatment.

All the re treatment did was cause additional trauma and inflammation. There is no antibiotic that is going to cure this infection so you are actually risking an intestinal infection by taking the antibiotic. Your medical doctor has no clue about anything that has to do with teeth. Your general dentist and root canal specialist are condoning the re treatment, not because they think it will make that second molar healthy again, but because they know that you want to retain your bridge.

If you choose to continue on this path, you will continue to have pain and infection. Eventually your dentists, both of them, will tell you.... the re treatment failed and the tooth is not salvageable. The truth of the matter is, they know the rc will not cure the infection but they want to make it look like they made heroic efforts to retain the tooth. Why? Because they know that you do not want to lose the bridge and be tooth less in that quadrant.

Long term infection and inflammation in a tooth as it proliferates beyond the tooth can result in temporary or permanent neurological problems.

Do a google search about root canals and systemic risks....
Dr Mercola and root canals
Dr Meinig and root canals.

Bryanna

Thank you both for your replies. I appreciate your empathy and advice. The pain seems to be subsiding somewhat. Yesterday it was unbearable but today it is less severe. The pain behind the root canaled tooth has also diminished. Slight irritation, but better. The pain up in my mouth is far away from the root candled tooth and an oral surgeon (friend of the family) said today, it appears to be a muscle issue. I have a very irritated muscle up in my mouth, perhaps from all the work done recently. I also have developed TMJ, as my bite is very much out of whack from the wisdom tooth removal, etc. I am going to try to wait it out before extracting the tooth. I figure i want to exhaust all options before losing this tooth (and the bridge) entirely - which seems to me, could be quite traumatic and lead to months upon months of surgery for implants to replace the molars, etc. Thank you again and I do hope my pain continues to subside. I appreciate your advice greatly.

CWMB,

The choice to keep your tooth is yours to make. Your "friend of the family" oral surgeon may be correct in that you have a muscular issue going on but he is remiss in leading you to believe that this tooth is healthy.

The decrease in pain can be misleading as it does not mean the infection from the tooth is going away. Remember those hundreds of inaccessible tiny canals that I mentioned earlier? They haven't disappeared and neither has the infected nerve tissue inside of them. The decrease in pain indicates that the antibiotic has temporarily subsided the inflammation and it also quite possibly indicates that the bacteria has migrated to a new place and is draining there.

It is understandable that you are concerned about not having any teeth in that upper quadrant and of course that is not ideal for many reasons. But please understand that what you are holding onto is a very diseased tooth that is going to cause further infection. Also, your dentists should be informing you about the permanent bone loss that will result due to this infection. Replacing root canaled teeth with dental implants is very risky and frequently unsuccessful due to the long term infection from the tooth that has resulted in irreplaceable bone loss.

It does not make me happy to be the one to inform you or others about these issues that your dentists have neglected to mention. However, in good conscience I know it's your right to be properly informed. What you do with the information and how you determine your decision is up to you.

I wish you all the best and I encourage you to do your own research on the subject of root canals and systemic health.

Bryanna

So, does a retreat of a root canal absolutely never work? My pain is not near the retreated root canaled tooth. In fact, I am fairly certain that the inside pain behind the wisdom tooth is right where the pterygoid muscle is located and corresponds with my TMJ. I'm just confused as to why they would try to retreat a root canal if there is a zero percent success rate? I'm not trying to contradict your advice - I appreciate it so much. I'm just trying to determine how successful my retreat might be.

CWMB,

The anatomy of a tooth is the same for every single tooth. There are hundreds of microscopic canals within each tooth that contain nerve tissue. These canals are inaccessible to any instrument, disinfectant, laser, and oral or IV antibiotics. The nerve tissue that remains inside of these canals is not removed. The blood supplying these nerves inside of these canals is cut off as a result of the rc procedure which causes the nerve tissue to die and become decrepit. Bacteria takes over the dead nerve tissue rendering the tooth chronically inflamed and infected. Some but not all people will experience various degrees of pain at the onset or sometime later. Pain is most definitely not a good indicator of a tooth or oral infection because the bacteria can migrate very silently beyond the tooth or area of infection until a full blown abscess and bone loss occurs.

For example, periodontal disease which is a progressive infectious disease that not only affects the gums, bone and oral health but also causes or contributes to systemic health problems. Most often people are either unaware they have it or ignore the subtle but tell tale signs of it until it has progressed beyond the original area. Periodontal disease often occurs from a tooth infection, especially a long standing infection such as with a root canaled tooth. When the gum and bone near a root canaled tooth becomes diseased, it is referred to as a perio (gum)/endo (root canal) infection. In your case, as I explained earlier, this is most likely what happened to your upper wisdom tooth. To remove one aspect of the infection does not cure the other aspect of the infection as the bacteria continues to proliferate from the original and chronic source of infection.

A re treatment of a tooth with one, two, three or more root canals does not favorably alter the bacteria inside of those tiny canals for the reasons that I have given you. In fact, the instrumentation of the large canals causes further inflammation and injury to the entire tooth. There are also many other reasons why non vital teeth are a detriment to our oral and systemic health, but they are somewhat complicated to try and disclose here.

Dentists are taught to "retain" teeth... all teeth, good or bad. It is not done mean spiritedly, it is what they are taught. This does not mean they don't know all of the information that I have brought to you here, as they do. But in addition to being taught to "retain" teeth" they are also taught not to disclose this information to their patients unless they have no way around it because endodontics is the most lucrative form of dentistry. The literature that is written in dental publications like JADA or Dental Economics always contains instructive articles about promoting endodontics within the dental office as a way to rev up collection $$$. I am not faulting people for writing these articles, I am just giving you and others an insight into what is really going on. So that when you ask me how can this be??... how could my dentist(s) tell me to get the root canal .... or tell me to re treat the tooth for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time .... how come I'm told to "save" the tooth only to end up with the same if not a worse problem? Now you have the reasons why.

I have been in the dental field for over 3 decades.... I am well aware of what goes on and I am only one of a handful that is not shy to share this knowledge here or elsewhere.

My purpose for bringing forth the information is to inform the public of the issues that they are not being informed about so an informed decision can be made, and that is all. I respect your personal choices as only you know what is best for you.

Be well,
Bryanna











QUOTE=CWMB;1112746]So, does a retreat of a root canal absolutely never work? My pain is not near the retreated root canaled tooth. In fact, I am fairly certain that the inside pain behind the wisdom tooth is right where the pterygoid muscle is located and corresponds with my TMJ. I'm just confused as to why they would try to retreat a root canal if there is a zero percent success rate? I'm not trying to contradict your advice - I appreciate it so much. I'm just trying to determine how successful my retreat might be.[/QUOTE]