[Vowel Lady]

Bryanna...
It really haunts me that I went to that original dental office with no pain at all and ended up losing a tooth and in permanent pain.

After extensive tries and a crazy amount of filing, the first dentist there put on a crown using permanent cement that broke immediately. I had some discomfort, but the second dentist there, then put in a post in what you termed a "vital" tooth. This was not a rc tooth. The pain became insane afterwards and has never gotten better.

Yes, things only worsened from there.

I have not sued. I spent the next two years seeking medical advice from doctors, oral surgeons, neuros.

One of my most helpful meds seems to be Gabapentin. ALL my doctors think I have nerve damage caused by dental work, likely by the first two dentists.

I feel STRONGLY that those first two dentists messed up.

The constant drilling and tapping attempting to put on a crown, the use of permanent cement and the crown breaking immediately and then the very long procedure the remove the broken crown...then shortly afterward...putting in a post in a vital tooth that adjust went through constant crazy drilling and tapping. They, hurt me.

I am haunted that this group of bad dentists got away with this. My medical bills are outrageous. My pain is outrageous. I personally believe strongly that the rc tooth next to all of this is a secondary issue.

You can't run from the facts....no pain, then very bad dental work, then damage and permanent pain.

Please pause for a moment and think about the poor dental work I received and only that.

How can I see to it that these dentists are sanctioned for their horrible dental work? What are the proper procedures????

It haunts me that they might hurt others.

[Bryanna]

Hi Vowel Lady,

I am going to re post your thread in sections and reply in bold type. Please hear me out on what I am going to tell you as I will try to explain this the best that I can.

<<It really haunts me that I went to that original dental office with no pain at all and ended up losing a tooth and in permanent pain.>>

THE TOOTH IN QUESTION HERE WAS NOT A VIRGIN TOOTH, IT HAD A RESTORATION IN IT. CORRECT? WHICH MEANS THIS TOOTH HAD ALREADY AT SOME POINT BEEN DRILLED INTO. WHICH MEANS THE NERVES INSIDE THE TOOTH HAD ALREADY BEEN TRAUMATIZED AT THE TIME THE THAT RESTORATION WAS DONE. PLEASE CLARIFY THE ORIGINAL RESTORATION ON THIS TOOTH AS I AM RECALLING IT WAS AN ONLAY OR LARGE FILLING...?

DENTAL PAIN IS OFTEN NON EXISTENT WHEN A TOOTH IS IN TROUBLE. WHY? BECAUSE TEETH ARE INTRICATELY CONNECTED TO OUR VASCULAR AND LYMPHATIC SYSTEMS. SO WHEN BAD BACTERIA IS BREWING IN A LIVE OR NON VITAL TOOTH, THERE ARE SEVERAL PATHS FOR THAT BACTERIA TO TRAVEL TO ALLOWING A TEMPORARY REDUCTION IN INFLAMMATION. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE TRAVEL OF THIS BACTERIA IS WHAT CAUSES THE MOST LONG TERM OR PERMANENT PROBLEMS TO OCCUR AND IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO KNOW HOW FAR IT HAS TRAVELED. THIS IS WHY I REPETITIVELY WARN PEOPLE ABOUT RETAINING INFECTED AND NON VITAL TEETH.

WHEN THAT TRAVELED PATH BECOMES BLOCKED, THE BACTERIA TRIES TO FIND ANOTHER PATH AND SO ON. THIS IS WHY SOME PEOPLE CAN GO ON FOR YEARS THINKING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR TOOTH WHEN IT'S REALLY BEEN BREWING A LONG TIME. EVENTUALLY THE INFLAMMATION CAN NO LONGER BE CONTAINED, THE IMMUNE SYSTEM SAYS ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE ....... AND THIS IS WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE IS PAIN, MAYBE SWELLING, MAYBE EVEN PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS OF ILL HEALTH. EACH PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT PATH OF RESISTANCE TO INFECTION SO WHAT MAY OCCUR IN A WEEK OR MONTH, MIGHT TAKE A YEAR OR MORE IN SOMEONE ELSE.

AT THE SAME TOKEN...........
ANYTIME A TOOTH IS DRILLED INTO THERE IS TRAUMA THAT THE TOOTH NEEDS TO RECOVER FROM. WITH EACH ADDITIONAL DRILLING, THERE IS AN ELEVATED RISK OF PERMANENTLY INJURING THE NERVES IN THAT TOOTH. THE MAGNITUDE OF THE RPM'S OF A HIGH SPEED DRILL ALWAYS TRAUMATIZE THE NERVES. THE DEEPER THE DRILLING THE MORE TRAUMA. DOES THIS MEAN THE TRAUMA IS PERMANENT? NOT NECESSARILY, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS THAT CHANCE. THE TOOTH REALLY HAS TO GO THROUGH A LOT TO RECOVER FROM THE TRAUMA. SO IMAGINE A TOOTH ALREADY BEING COMPROMISED AND THEN BEING DRILLED INTO FOR A 2ND OR 3RD TIME.

ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM............
A DENTIST COULD DRILL TOO FAR AND TOO DEEP PERMANENTLY INJURING A TOOTH. THIS CAN EASILY OCCUR WHEN THE DECAY IS DEEP AND/OR THERE WAS DECAY UNDERNEATH A PREVIOUS RESTORATION AND/OR A PORTION OF THE TOOTH HAD BROKEN OFF. WHEN THE TOOTH NEEDS TO BE SEVERELY REDUCED SAY FOR A LARGE FILLING, OR AN ONLAY OR A CROWN THE RISK OF INJURY TO THE TOOTH IS INCREASED.

IT IS NOT IDEAL TO REMOVE THE PROTECTIVE BLANKET OF THE TOOTH CALLED THE ENAMEL. BUT IT IS NECESSARY TO REMOVE IT FOR ALL RESTORATIONS. THE MORE THAT IS REMOVED, THE MORE COMPROMISED THE TOOTH BECOMES AND THE MORE VULNERABLE THE TOOTH IS TO IRREVERSIBLE NERVE DAMAGE.

<<After extensive tries and a crazy amount of filing, the first dentist there put on a crown using permanent cement that broke immediately. I had some discomfort, but the second dentist there, then put in a post in what you termed a "vital" tooth. This was not a rc tooth. The pain became insane afterwards and has never gotten better.>>

OKAY, SO YOU HAVE A TOOTH THAT ALREADY HAD A RESTORATION ON IT. NOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF DRILLING AND WHAT NOT DONE TO THIS TOOTH TO TRY AND RESTORE IT.
REGARDING THE POST.... IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU SAID THIS TOOTH WAS NOT ROOT CANALED BUT THE DENTIST PUT A POST IN IT. AND I SAID YOU CANNOT PLACE A POST IN A LIVE TOOTH. I STILL STAND BY THAT STATEMENT. IF A POST HAD BEEN PLACED IN A LIVE TOOTH... YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN IN EXTREME, EXCRUCIATING, UNBEARABLE PAIN. BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION, I THINK WHAT WAS PLACED IN THE TOOTH WAS A PIN NOT A POST. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. PINS WERE OFTEN USED IN DENTISTRY 20 PLUS YEARS AGO. THEY ARE SELDOM USED SINCE THEN BECAUSE THEY TEND TO CAUSE IRRITATION IN THE LOCATION THEY ARE PLACED AND THERE ARE OTHER MEANS OF RESTORING A TOOTH WITHOUT USING PINS. HOWEVER, THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL... JUST STUPID TO USE... IMO.

AN XRAY OF THAT TOOTH DURING THIS RESTORATION PROCESS WOULD SHOW THE "PIN" THAT WAS USED.

<<I have not sued. I spent the next two years seeking medical advice from doctors, oral surgeons, neuros. >>

I AM FAIRLY WELL VERSED ON DENTAL LAW SUITS AS I HAVE KNOWN THE INTRICACIES OF SEVERAL OF THEM OVER THE LAST 3 DECADES. THIS IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SUBJECT BUT TYPICALLY, LAWSUITS AGAINST DENTISTS RESULT IN A LONG DRAWN OUT PROCESS AND UNFORTUNATELY NOT USUALLY FAVORABLE FOR THE PLAINTIFF. THERE ARE SO MANY COMPLICATED VARIABLES TO DENTAL TREATMENT THAT THE PLAINTIFF USUALLY RUNS OUT OF AMMO AND THE MOST THAT HAPPENS TO THE DEFENDANT IS A FINE OR SLAP ON THE WRIST. AS A PLAINTIFF, YOU WOULD HAVE THE BURDEN OF DELIVERING UNDENIABLE AND DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT HARM WAS CAUSED TO YOU AT THE TIME OF THE PREPARATION FOR THE CROWN THAT RESULTED IN LONG TERM SUFFERING. BECAUSE THE TOOTH WAS PREVIOUSLY RESTORED, YOU HAVE LESS OF A LEG TO STAND ON FOR THE REASONS THAT I MENTIONED ABOVE. ALSO, BELIEVE IT OR NOT..... BECAUSE THE ADJACENT TOOTH IS ROOT CANALED THE "AREA" SURROUNDING THE PROBLEM WOULD BE RULED AS COMPROMISED.... MEANING...YOU HAVE NO WAY TO PROVE FOR CERTAIN THAT THE RC TOOTH IS NOT CAUSING THE LONG TERM PROBLEM.

<<One of my most helpful meds seems to be Gabapentin. ALL my doctors think I have nerve damage caused by dental work, likely by the first two dentists.>>

IF I HAD A NICKEL FOR EVERY TIME I KNEW OF A PATIENT WHO WAS TOLD BY THEIR DRS AND NEURO DR THEY LIKELY HAVE THEIR PROBLEM FROM DENTAL WORK.. I WOULD BE A MILLIONAIRE. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT DENTAL WORK DOES NOT CAUSE OR CONTRIBUTE TO NEUROLOGICAL PROBLEMS. AS I BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY THAT ROOT CANALED TEETH DO CAUSE OR CONTRIBUTE TO NEUROLOGICAL PROBLEMS. HOWEVER, NONE OF THESE DRS ARE EVER WILLING TO GO UP AGAINST THE DENTIST OR HIS LAWYERS IN A DENTAL LAW SUIT AS THEY CANNOT DEFINITIVELY PROVE THEIR DIAGNOSIS WHEN THERE ARE OTHER TEETH IN THE SAME AREA THAT ARE COMPROMISED EITHER WITH LARGE FILLINGS, CROWNS OR ROOT CANALS.

<<I feel STRONGLY that those first two dentists messed up.>>

I KNOW YOU DO AND I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD FEEL THAT WAY. ESPECIALLY SINCE THEIR PREPARATION OF THE TOOTH SEEMED SO REDUNDANT AND INEFFECTIVE. IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THEY MESSED UP BUT FOR IT TO BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR LONG TERM PAIN.... YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW THAT FOR CERTAIN.

<<The constant drilling and tapping attempting to put on a crown, the use of permanent cement and the crown breaking immediately and then the very long procedure the remove the broken crown...then shortly afterward...putting in a post in a vital tooth that adjust went through constant crazy drilling and tapping. They, hurt me.>>

THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL DENTISTRY. I KNOW YIKES!!!! IN MY OPINION IT'S NOT GOOD DENTISTRY, BUT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL.

<<I am haunted that this group of bad dentists got away with this. My medical bills are outrageous. My pain is outrageous. I personally believe strongly that the rc tooth next to all of this is a secondary issue.>>

I KNOW HOW HORRIBLE YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS. UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE A LOT OF NOT SO GOOD DENTISTS... AND BELIEVE ME, IT BREAKS MY HEART TO WITNESS THIS NONSENSE. BASED ON MY EXTENSIVE DENTAL EXPERIENCE, I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU THAT YOUR RC TOOTH IS A SECONDARY PROBLEM. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD FEEL THAT WAY AS YOU HAVE NO DENTAL KNOWLEDGE OTHER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOUR DENTISTS AND YOUR DOCTORS.

<<You can't run from the facts....no pain, then very bad dental work, then damage and permanent pain.>>

TRUE, YOU CANNOT RUN FROM "ALL" THE FACTS WHICH ALL PLAY A ROLE IN THE DEMISE OF THAT TOOTH.

<<Please pause for a moment and think about the poor dental work I received and only that.>>

I HAVE THOUGHT AND RETHOUGHT AGAIN AND AGAIN YOUR WRITINGS HERE. I TOO WANT TO BLAME YOUR VERY LESS THAN IDEAL DENTISTRY FOR YOUR NEUROLOGICAL ISSUES... BUT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, I CANNOT DO THAT BECAUSE I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE RC TOOTH IS PLAYING A ROLE IN ALL OF THIS.

<<How can I see to it that these dentists are sanctioned for their horrible dental work? What are the proper procedures????>>

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU REALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THEM AS YOU DO NOT HAVE DEFINITIVE PROOF, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, THAT WHAT THEY DID CAUSED YOU TO HAVE PERMANENT LONG TERM PROBLEMS.

<<It haunts me that they might hurt others>>

VOWEL LADY, PLEASE DO NOT LET THAT HAUNT YOU. I TOO AM VERY BOTHERED BY WHAT I HAVE AND CONTINUE TO WITNESS IN DENTISTRY. THERE ARE SO MANY UNSKILLED DENTISTS AND BECAUSE THEY'RE LEVEL OF SKILL IS NEVER TESTED THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREER AND BECAUSE THEY AVOID GOING AGAINST THEIR PEERS WHEN THE OBVIOUS IS SEEN..... THERE IS NO RECOURSE FOR YOU TO TAKE TO "STOP" THEM.

I am so sorry that you are going through this... I cannot tell you how my profession has disgusted me on so many levels. I've stayed in dentistry all of these years because I care about the patient much more so than pleasing my employer. I wish I could help you find the exact resolution. But all I can do is offer you the information that is not being offered by your dentists and hope that you understand my offering is only with good intentions.

Bryanna

[Vowel Lady]

THE TOOTH IN QUESTION HERE WAS NOT A VIRGIN TOOTH, IT HAD A RESTORATION IN IT. CORRECT? WHICH MEANS THIS TOOTH HAD ALREADY AT SOME POINT BEEN DRILLED INTO. WHICH MEANS THE NERVES INSIDE THE TOOTH HAD ALREADY BEEN TRAUMATIZED AT THE TIME THE THAT RESTORATION WAS DONE. PLEASE CLARIFY THE ORIGINAL RESTORATION ON THIS TOOTH AS I AM RECALLING IT WAS AN ONLAY OR LARGE FILLING...?

Sadly, I don't know how to quote....will work on that later and will answer or address other items later.

The tooth in question had an onlay. I do not recall exactly why. I suspect a filling. The onlay fell off. I had no pain at all. Not even with hot or cold foods. However, since we were going to be in another city, I went to the new dentist and asked if they would replace the onlay. They said onlays were not done any more and insisted on doing a crown.

The young dentist didn't do injections...I noticed this oddity from day one. She had the owner do all injections. (Just a side note)

Excessive problems occurred with the crown, excessive drilling, tapping...soreness started. Permanent crown broke. Then removed.

The owner (shot lady) said she had to put in a post (but may have used the word pin). She said ahe had to put a post (or pin????) in because of the angle of the tooth ...it was causing difficulties. She said it was like a physics problem. PHYSCIS. (Can't bold...in bed with device).

She gave me many, many shots for this procedure and I was very numb. When the numbness wore off, I had some pain and oddly, I got a fever. I reported the pain and a low grade fever and she said the pain was normal and the fever was not in relation to dental work.

Later, she removed the temp. Crown she put on and I almost fainted. Worst pain I have ever had in my life. I got shot up big time with a nutso amount of novocaine as I was near screaming. She then went on a three week vacation and suggested I might need a rc.

Eventually, I Saw an OS, who is also a medical doctor. He said the dentists injured my nerve. I trust him greatly.

One dentist I saw recommended a rc. this guy (endo.) almost fainted himself when he discovered the post. That was another very bad experience. They all were.

I still think my dentists were horrible. Will peruse your response for any other questions....and consider your additional information.

I hope they don't permanently hurt someone again. Bryanna, I actually woke up this morning in tears, not just from pain, but in fear that they would hurt someone as they have hurt me.

[Bryanna]

Vowel Lady,

Okay, so now more of the story unfolds. I say that because when it comes to dentistry, there is usually more to the "original" story as the story gets told. Which is fine, but as you stated, all of the facts need to be considered and I urge you to read my reply very carefully.

I will re post from your thread and reply in bold type.

<<Tooth number 30 had an onlay. I do not recall exactly why. I suspect a filling. The onlay fell off. I had no pain at all. Not even with hot or cold foods.>>

AN ONLAY IS PUT ON A TOOTH WHEN THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL TOOTH STRUCTURE MISSING. MISSING EITHER DUE TO DECAY, FRACTURE, OR A PREVIOUSLY LARGE FILLING. SO AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, TOOTH #30 HAD ALREADY BEEN COMPROMISED AND WAS NOT IN THE HEALTHIEST STATE PRIOR TO THE ESCAPADE OF DENTISTRY THAT ENSUED.

NOW READ THIS CAREFULLY... THE FACT THAT YOU HAD NO PAIN AT ALL, NOT EVEN TEMPERATURE SENSITIVITY WHEN THAT ORIGINAL ONLAY CAME OFF INDICATES THAT THE NERVES WERE SOMEWHAT NON VITAL. WHY? BECAUSE THE ENAMEL, REMEMBER I MENTIONED THAT PROTECTIVE STRUCTURE OVER THE DELICATE PORTION OF THE TOOTH, HAD BEEN REMOVED TO PREPARE THIS TOOTH FOR THE ORIGINAL ONLAY. WITHOUT THAT ENAMEL, A HEALTHY, LIVE TOOTH WOULD BE SENSITIVE TO COLD AIR, COLD TEMPERATURE FOODS AND EVEN YOUR TOOTHBRUSH CROSSING OVER IT WOULD CAUSE SENSITIVITY. TO SUM IT UP, TOOTH #30 WAS NOT REAL HEALTHY AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT BECAUSE IT HAD NOT CAUSED YOU ANY PAIN....UNTIL.... IT WAS DRILLED INTO AGAIN. DRILLING INTO A PARTIALLY NON VITAL TOOTH CAN AND MOST OFTEN WILL SET OFF A CHAIN REACTION OF EVENTS ONE OF WHICH IS ACUTE PAIN. WHY? BECAUSE THE NERVES WERE ALREADY TURNING NECROTIC AND THE VIBRATION OF THE DRILL ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT ON ONLY EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM THAT WAS ALREADY PRESENT.

SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE BLAMING YOUR NEURALGIA ON DENTAL TREATMENT BECAUSE AND I QUOTE YOU " I WENT INTO THE DENTAL OFFICE WITH NO PAIN AND CAME OUT IN PAIN". DOES THE SITUATION LOOK A BIT DIFFERENT TO YOU NOW?

<<However, since we were going to be in another city, I went to the new dentist and asked if they would replace the onlay. They said inlays were not done any more and insisted on doing a crown.>>

WAS IT AN ONLAY OR AN INLAY? ONLAYS COVER AT LEAST ONE CUSP OF THE TOOTH WHEREAS INLAYS DO NOT. EITHER ONE CAN END UP BEING A CROWN AT A LATER DATE IF THERE IS RECURRENT DECAY IN THE TOOTH AND/OR A PIECE OF THE TOOTH HAS BROKEN OFF.

<<The young dentist didn't do injections...I noticed this oddity from day one. She had the owner do all injections. (Just a side note)>>

THIS IS STRANGE AND THE ONLY TIME I HAVE SEEN THIS TAKE PLACE IS WHEN THE ATTENDING DENTIST GENERALLY HAS DIFFICULTY GETTING ADEQUATE ANESTHESIA SO ANOTHER DENTIST WILL DO THE INJECTION. I HAVE ALSO SEEN IT DONE WHEN A SPECIAL INJECTION IS NECESSARY TO GET PROFOUND ANESTHESIA AND NOT ALL DENTISTS ARE COMFORTABLE DOING THAT INJECTION.

<<Excessive problems occurred with the crown, excessive drilling, tapping...soreness started. Permanent crown broke. Then removed.>>

THIS DESCRIPTION INDICATES THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH HEALTHY TOOTH STRUCTURE TO PUT A CROWN ON PROPERLY. WHETHER THIS WAS DUE TO THE ORIGINAL DRILLING FOR THE INLAY/ONLAY... OR THIS DENTIST OVER PREPARED THE TOOTH .... OR THE DECAY CAUSED ADDITIONAL LOSS OF TOOTH STRUCTURE LEAVING NOT MUCH TO WORK WITH, ONLY THOSE WORKING ON THIS TOOTH WOULD KNOW THAT ANSWER.

<<The owner (shot lady) said she had to put in a post (but may have used the word pin). She gave me many, many shots for this procedure and I was very numb. When the numbness wore off, I had some pain and oddly, I got a fever. I reported the pain and a low grade fever and she said the pain was normal and the fever was not in relation to dental work.>>

AS I SAID, A POST IS ONLY PLACED IN RC TEETH. SOME DENTISTS CALL PINS POSTS... SO MAYBE THAT IS WHAT SHE SAID. AN XRAY OF THIS PROCEDURE WOULD TELL YOU IF IT WAS A POST OR A PIN.
IT IS COMMON FOR THE PATIENT TO HAVE PAIN, EVEN INFLAMMATION AFTER A PIN IS PLACED BECAUSE IT IS IRRITATING TO THE TOOTH AND IF IT IS PLACED NEAR A NERVE, IT IS EVEN MORE IRRITATING. IN YOUR CASE, I AM GOING TO ASSUME BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION THAT THE NERVES IN THIS TOOTH WERE ALREADY COMPROMISED AND THE DRILLING AND THE PIN SET THAT CHAIN OF REACTIONS OFF BIG TIME. COULD YOU DEVELOP A FEVER FROM HAVING DENTAL WORK....... ABSOLUTELY. SOME PEOPLE DEVELOP A LOW GRADE FEVER AFTER HAVING MOST OF THEIR DENTAL WORK AS IT IS THE BODY'S REACTION TO BEING VIOLATED AND TRAUMATIZED. DOES IT MEAN THERE IS AN INFECTION, NOT NECESSARILY.

<<Later, she removed the temp.>>

SO THE PAIN AND FEVER SUBSIDED AND YOU WENT ON FOR A WEEK OR LONGER UNTIL THE PERMANENT CROWN CAME IN, CORRECT?

<<Crown she put on and I almost fainted. Worst pain I have ever had in my life.>>

THIS INDICATES TO ME THAT SHE DID NOT ANESTHETIZE THE AREA BEFORE TRYING ON OR CEMENTING THE CROWN ON. THE INTERIOR OF THE CROWN IS MOST LIKELY METAL WHICH IS INCREDIBLY COLD. THE CEMENT IS ALSO VERY COLD. PLACING EITHER OF THEM OVER AN AREA OF A SOMEWHAT VITAL OR INFLAMED TOOTH WOULD CAUSE PAIN. I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS MYSELF. SOME DENTISTS ROUTINELY NUMB THE PATIENT FOR ALL CROWN INSERTIONS, OTHERS DON'T.

<< I got shot up big time with a nutso amount of novocaine as I was near screaming.>>

I ASSUME THIS WAS AFTER SHE EITHER TRIED THE CROWN ON OR AFTER SHE HAD ALREADY CEMENTED IT. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH ONE?

<<Saw OS, who is also a medical doctor. He said the dentists injured my nerve. So has every other doctor I have seen.>>

THE OS SAID INJURED YOUR NERVE HOW? WITH EXCESSIVE DRILLING OR WITH THE PLACEMENT OF THE PIN? YOUR PHYSICIANS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE DENTAL TREATMENT THAT TOOK PLACE OTHER THAN YOUR DESCRIPTION. SO TO HEAR YOUR STORY AND NOT KNOW ANY DIFFERENT OF COURSE SOMEONE IS GOING TO THINK....THE DENTIST INJURED THE NERVE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

<<<<One dentist I saw recommended a rc. this guy almost fainted himself when he discovered the post. That was another very bad experience. They all were.>>

AGAIN THIS DENTIST COULD HAVE SAID THE WORD POST AND MEANT PIN, BUT UNLESS YOU CAN PRODUCE AN XRAY OF THIS TOOTH WITH A POST IN IT, I HAVE TO SAY IT WAS A PIN. WITH THAT SAID, THIS DENTIST MAY HAVE BEEN UPSET ABOUT THE PLACEMENT OF THE PIN AND JUST DID NOT EXPRESS THAT EXACT THING TO YOU SO AS TO NOT MAKE THE OTHER DENTIST LOOK BAD.

<<I still think my dentists were horrible. Will peruse your response for any other questions....and consider your additional information.>>

I THINK YOU'VE HAD SOME CRAPPY DENTISTRY BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION AND MY EXPERIENCE... BUT DID THE WORK ON #30 CAUSE NEURALGIA? THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID, THAT I HAVE READ TO INDICATE THAT IT DID.

<<I hope they don't permanently hurt someone again. Bryanna, I actually woke up this morning in tears, not just from pain, but in fear that they would hurt someone as they have hurt me.>>

VOWEL LADY... LOUSY DENTISTS GO ON TO HAVE VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES. WHY? BECAUSE THEIR WORK AND SKILLS ARE NOT QUESTIONED. THE AVERAGE PERSON HAS NO CLUE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON AND AS HUMANS WE CLING TO OUR DENTISTS AND DOCTORS TO BE TRUTHFUL, INFORMATIVE AND GUIDE US IN A HEALTHY DIRECTION.

I have shed countless tears and suffered much anguish over what I have witnessed and partaken in during my dental career. I did not start out being adamantly against root canal therapy nor did I think to question the authority of my employers. But it became clear that I repetitively witnessed the same horrific nonsense over and over again. The going along with it for the sake of keeping my job became no longer possible for me to do. I sought to be educated by holistic, integrated, biological dentists who no longer practice old school dentistry. My knowledge and professional experience on quality and healthy dental care has grown tremendously and has led me to what I believe in today.

I am not here to force you to believe anything. I am here to listen to your story and shed some light on the incidentals that none of your dentists or physicians have informed you about.

Let me know if anything I have said brings some light to the situation or makes you wonder if there is more to the problem than what occurred with tooth #30.

Bryanna

[Vowel Lady]

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Vowel Lady,

Okay, so now more of the story unfolds. I say that because when it comes to dentistry, there is usually more to the "original" story as the story gets told. Which is fine, but as you stated, all of the facts need to be considered and I urge you to read my reply very carefully.

I will re post from your thread and reply in bold type.

<<Tooth number 30 had an onlay. I do not recall exactly why. I suspect a filling. The onlay fell off. I had no pain at all. Not even with hot or cold foods.>>

AN ONLAY IS PUT ON A TOOTH WHEN THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL TOOTH STRUCTURE MISSING. MISSING EITHER DUE TO DECAY, FRACTURE, OR A PREVIOUSLY LARGE FILLING. SO AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, TOOTH #30 HAD ALREADY BEEN COMPROMISED AND WAS NOT IN THE HEALTHIEST STATE PRIOR TO THE ESCAPADE OF DENTISTRY THAT ENSUED.

NOW READ THIS CAREFULLY... THE FACT THAT YOU HAD NO PAIN AT ALL, NOT EVEN TEMPERATURE SENSITIVITY WHEN THAT ORIGINAL ONLAY CAME OFF INDICATES THAT THE NERVES WERE SOMEWHAT NON VITAL. WHY? BECAUSE THE ENAMEL, REMEMBER I MENTIONED THAT PROTECTIVE STRUCTURE OVER THE DELICATE PORTION OF THE TOOTH, HAD BEEN REMOVED TO PREPARE THIS TOOTH FOR THE ORIGINAL ONLAY. WITHOUT THAT ENAMEL, A HEALTHY, LIVE TOOTH WOULD BE SENSITIVE TO COLD AIR, COLD TEMPERATURE FOODS AND EVEN YOUR TOOTHBRUSH CROSSING OVER IT WOULD CAUSE SENSITIVITY. TO SUM IT UP, TOOTH #30 WAS NOT REAL HEALTHY AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT BECAUSE IT HAD NOT CAUSED YOU ANY PAIN....UNTIL.... IT WAS DRILLED INTO AGAIN. DRILLING INTO A PARTIALLY NON VITAL TOOTH CAN AND MOST OFTEN WILL SET OFF A CHAIN REACTION OF EVENTS ONE OF WHICH IS ACUTE PAIN. WHY? BECAUSE THE NERVES WERE ALREADY TURNING NECROTIC AND THE VIBRATION OF THE DRILL ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT ON ONLY EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM THAT WAS ALREADY PRESENT.

SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE BLAMING YOUR NEURALGIA ON DENTAL TREATMENT BECAUSE AND I QUOTE YOU " I WENT INTO THE DENTAL OFFICE WITH NO PAIN AND CAME OUT IN PAIN". DOES THE SITUATION LOOK A BIT DIFFERENT TO YOU NOW?

<<However, since we were going to be in another city, I went to the new dentist and asked if they would replace the onlay. They said inlays were not done any more and insisted on doing a crown.>>

WAS IT AN ONLAY OR AN INLAY? ONLAYS COVER AT LEAST ONE CUSP OF THE TOOTH WHEREAS INLAYS DO NOT. EITHER ONE CAN END UP BEING A CROWN AT A LATER DATE IF THERE IS RECURRENT DECAY IN THE TOOTH AND/OR A PIECE OF THE TOOTH HAS BROKEN OFF.

<<The young dentist didn't do injections...I noticed this oddity from day one. She had the owner do all injections. (Just a side note)>>

THIS IS STRANGE AND THE ONLY TIME I HAVE SEEN THIS TAKE PLACE IS WHEN THE ATTENDING DENTIST GENERALLY HAS DIFFICULTY GETTING ADEQUATE ANESTHESIA SO ANOTHER DENTIST WILL DO THE INJECTION. I HAVE ALSO SEEN IT DONE WHEN A SPECIAL INJECTION IS NECESSARY TO GET PROFOUND ANESTHESIA AND NOT ALL DENTISTS ARE COMFORTABLE DOING THAT INJECTION.

<<Excessive problems occurred with the crown, excessive drilling, tapping...soreness started. Permanent crown broke. Then removed.>>

THIS DESCRIPTION INDICATES THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH HEALTHY TOOTH STRUCTURE TO PUT A CROWN ON PROPERLY. WHETHER THIS WAS DUE TO THE ORIGINAL DRILLING FOR THE INLAY/ONLAY... OR THIS DENTIST OVER PREPARED THE TOOTH .... OR THE DECAY CAUSED ADDITIONAL LOSS OF TOOTH STRUCTURE LEAVING NOT MUCH TO WORK WITH, ONLY THOSE WORKING ON THIS TOOTH WOULD KNOW THAT ANSWER.

<<The owner (shot lady) said she had to put in a post (but may have used the word pin). She gave me many, many shots for this procedure and I was very numb. When the numbness wore off, I had some pain and oddly, I got a fever. I reported the pain and a low grade fever and she said the pain was normal and the fever was not in relation to dental work.>>

AS I SAID, A POST IS ONLY PLACED IN RC TEETH. SOME DENTISTS CALL PINS POSTS... SO MAYBE THAT IS WHAT SHE SAID. AN XRAY OF THIS PROCEDURE WOULD TELL YOU IF IT WAS A POST OR A PIN.
IT IS COMMON FOR THE PATIENT TO HAVE PAIN, EVEN INFLAMMATION AFTER A PIN IS PLACED BECAUSE IT IS IRRITATING TO THE TOOTH AND IF IT IS PLACED NEAR A NERVE, IT IS EVEN MORE IRRITATING. IN YOUR CASE, I AM GOING TO ASSUME BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION THAT THE NERVES IN THIS TOOTH WERE ALREADY COMPROMISED AND THE DRILLING AND THE PIN SET THAT CHAIN OF REACTIONS OFF BIG TIME. COULD YOU DEVELOP A FEVER FROM HAVING DENTAL WORK....... ABSOLUTELY. SOME PEOPLE DEVELOP A LOW GRADE FEVER AFTER HAVING MOST OF THEIR DENTAL WORK AS IT IS THE BODY'S REACTION TO BEING VIOLATED AND TRAUMATIZED. DOES IT MEAN THERE IS AN INFECTION, NOT NECESSARILY.

<<Later, she removed the temp.>>

SO THE PAIN AND FEVER SUBSIDED AND YOU WENT ON FOR A WEEK OR LONGER UNTIL THE PERMANENT CROWN CAME IN, CORRECT?

<<Crown she put on and I almost fainted. Worst pain I have ever had in my life.>>

THIS INDICATES TO ME THAT SHE DID NOT ANESTHETIZE THE AREA BEFORE TRYING ON OR CEMENTING THE CROWN ON. THE INTERIOR OF THE CROWN IS MOST LIKELY METAL WHICH IS INCREDIBLY COLD. THE CEMENT IS ALSO VERY COLD. PLACING EITHER OF THEM OVER AN AREA OF A SOMEWHAT VITAL OR INFLAMED TOOTH WOULD CAUSE PAIN. I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS MYSELF. SOME DENTISTS ROUTINELY NUMB THE PATIENT FOR ALL CROWN INSERTIONS, OTHERS DON'T.

<< I got shot up big time with a nutso amount of novocaine as I was near screaming.>>

I ASSUME THIS WAS AFTER SHE EITHER TRIED THE CROWN ON OR AFTER SHE HAD ALREADY CEMENTED IT. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH ONE?

<<Saw OS, who is also a medical doctor. He said the dentists injured my nerve. So has every other doctor I have seen.>>

THE OS SAID INJURED YOUR NERVE HOW? WITH EXCESSIVE DRILLING OR WITH THE PLACEMENT OF THE PIN? YOUR PHYSICIANS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE DENTAL TREATMENT THAT TOOK PLACE OTHER THAN YOUR DESCRIPTION. SO TO HEAR YOUR STORY AND NOT KNOW ANY DIFFERENT OF COURSE SOMEONE IS GOING TO THINK....THE DENTIST INJURED THE NERVE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

<<<<One dentist I saw recommended a rc. this guy almost fainted himself when he discovered the post. That was another very bad experience. They all were.>>

AGAIN THIS DENTIST COULD HAVE SAID THE WORD POST AND MEANT PIN, BUT UNLESS YOU CAN PRODUCE AN XRAY OF THIS TOOTH WITH A POST IN IT, I HAVE TO SAY IT WAS A PIN. WITH THAT SAID, THIS DENTIST MAY HAVE BEEN UPSET ABOUT THE PLACEMENT OF THE PIN AND JUST DID NOT EXPRESS THAT EXACT THING TO YOU SO AS TO NOT MAKE THE OTHER DENTIST LOOK BAD.

<<I still think my dentists were horrible. Will peruse your response for any other questions....and consider your additional information.>>

I THINK YOU'VE HAD SOME CRAPPY DENTISTRY BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION AND MY EXPERIENCE... BUT DID THE WORK ON #30 CAUSE NEURALGIA? THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID, THAT I HAVE READ TO INDICATE THAT IT DID.

<<I hope they don't permanently hurt someone again. Bryanna, I actually woke up this morning in tears, not just from pain, but in fear that they would hurt someone as they have hurt me.>>

VOWEL LADY... LOUSY DENTISTS GO ON TO HAVE VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES. WHY? BECAUSE THEIR WORK AND SKILLS ARE NOT QUESTIONED. THE AVERAGE PERSON HAS NO CLUE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON AND AS HUMANS WE CLING TO OUR DENTISTS AND DOCTORS TO BE TRUTHFUL, INFORMATIVE AND GUIDE US IN A HEALTHY DIRECTION.

I have shed countless tears and suffered much anguish over what I have witnessed and partaken in during my dental career. I did not start out being adamantly against root canal therapy nor did I think to question the authority of my employers. But it became clear that I repetitively witnessed the same horrific nonsense over and over again. The going along with it for the sake of keeping my job became no longer possible for me to do. I sought to be educated by holistic, integrated, biological dentists who no longer practice old school dentistry. My knowledge and professional experience on quality and healthy dental care has grown tremendously and has led me to what I believe in today.

I am not here to force you to believe anything. I am here to listen to your story and shed some light on the incidentals that none of your dentists or physicians have informed you about.

Let me know if anything I have said brings some light to the situation or makes you wonder if there is more to the problem than what occurred with tooth #30.

Bryanna

For starters...the tooth had an ONlay either due to a filling or crack. (I really doubt both) I do not recall the tooth looking weird in any way (small, dis colored, etc) and as you know, it didn't hurt)

"SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE BLAMING YOUR NEURALGIA ON DENTAL TREATMENT BECAUSE AND I QUOTE YOU " I WENT INTO THE DENTAL OFFICE WITH NO PAIN AND CAME OUT IN PAIN". DOES THE SITUATION LOOK A BIT DIFFERENT TO YOU NOW?"

No no no no no. I think horrible dentistry is related to my neuralgia. Period.

It took a MONTH (or more) of CONSTANT drilling before I felt even some discomfort. A month+. That is not €#}% normal. And this crazy €#}%'dentist drilled my top tooth to the point that it looks and feels very weird and I worry about this tooth causing trouble down the road. After a month of drilling sometimes multiple times per week over the course of a month (maybe more,..it was a freakish long time) then a post was put in. THAT was when the hideous pain started. YES I do blame them because I can accept that as the owner dentist stated there was a physics problem that made the tooth hard to crown, so I can accept that it might take longer. But not over a month ofmCONSTANT drilling and then putting a post in my tooth. They essentially TORTURED my tooth, my nerve, my very being. This is so NOt normal behavior, normal dentistry. They should have SToPPED what they were doing and perhaps put the Daxx onlay back on and not tortured me and my Trigeminal nerve . I fully and totally blame them for having ZERO common sense, practicing BAD dentistry and permanently hurting me.

I am open to your general discussions of how root canals are damaging. But I do NOT think the fact that the tooth next to the onlay tooth (which was pulled) happened to be a rc tooth is related to my neuralgia.

I think horrible dentistry...is related to my neuralgia. Horrible, greedy, unprofessional, rushed, uncaring, deceitful dentists...that drilled into my tooth VERY frequently for a month or more, then put a pin into it....hurt my Trigeminal nerve. This is freakishly abnormal. I think if they had an ounce of common sense, they would have stepped back and NOT tortured that tooth, the nerve and me, the patient....leaving me with this permanent, very painful, injury.

And since that second idiot dentist recommended I rc the tooth and the third idiot dentist recommended I remove the tooth, I don't know if I can remove the rc tooth you are so worried about.
That was my back tooth that was removed and I'm under the impression I would have needed that tooth for a prosthesis.

All I got from these dentists is total lack of common sense, lying, unprofessionalism, stupidity, dishonesty, greed....and they took my money and hurt me PERMANeNTLY. And one of the dentists was a holistic dentist and was NOT on my insurance...I paid through the nose for his stupid opinion and tx.

Something to think about...if these dentists from hell, had said to themselves "let's abandon the crown" since we are freakin hurting this patient and put on an onlay...voila...I don't think any of this would have happened. And just maybe, I would have had some more options with the rc tooth next to it. I certainly wouldn't be so sick and in so much pain and I might have had some hope for an implant or prosthesis of some kind. Now, any work in that area is torturous and I don't know what I'm going to do as I have basically no options, no hope...the idiot dentists have caused a mess in more ways than one...of course the worst is destroying my health and causing permanent pain.

Btw, I often type on here from my iPad in a recliner chair in pain, so my grammar, etc. might not be the best.

PS if I took a hammer and banged hard on your arm (to kill a fly or something) repeatedly, in the same spot once or twice a week for 5 or 6 weeks consistently....do you think you would have some broken capillaries? Some very baddddd bruises? Then, how about if I glued something right on top of your bad bruise with permanent cement and had to drill it off for an hour. Would it be sore? Then, for kicks, Shortly afterward, I drilled a pin right into those bruises? And if something went wrong with your arm, would it be because there is something wrong with your shoulder or because you have an autoimmune disease or maybe you have some underlying blood disease that causes broken capillaries???? Because, how weird and what a shock that you have bruises and your arm is a mess. Why, good Lord, I have never in my life, in my entire practice as a fly on the arm smasher, have ever seen anyone react like this. Can't be my fault. Must be yours...or some old injury. What do you mean your arm was fine before. No it wasn't. It just looked fine. Nothing I have done with my hammer, drill, or pin could have caused those bruises.

Hard to find a good comparison, but I think the stupidity, lack of common sense and Repeated, constant, frequent torture of my Trigeminal nerve caused it DAMAGE ..leading to permanent, horrible, very painful neuralgia.

[Bryanna]

Vowel Lady,

I am sorry you are so upset and I understand that this situation has been a nightmare for you. But I am asking you to open up your mind to the information that I am providing you here because in my lengthy professional experience as a chair side assistant, I am quite certain what took place and why. What occurred between you and your dentists is not uncommon. Most people do not know the truth about what they have experienced because they are not knowledgeable enough to know and their dentist did not do a good job in explaining anything to them. I am going to offer you some clarity of this one more time. Please know that I understand how you came up with your conclusion, but in all honesty it is not accurate.

From your perspective, it looks and feels like all hell broke loose for no reason. You came to that conclusion because you are not knowledgeable about the details of the dentistry that you had done or the why you had it done.

With that said... the tooth that was removed was already compromised prior to the new work and the extraction because it had already been drilled into. Think of it as that bruise you have on your arm from the hammer hitting it. Hit it once, you bruise a little and heal. Hit it and break the skin that was protecting it from further harm and bacteria, you have a whole new problem.

1) The onlay that was originally on that tooth indicates that the reason the onlay was on there in the first place was because you were missing too much tooth structure to place a filling. So this tooth was not at it's healthiest when the onlay was initially placed. It is important to know that a tooth can appear to look perfect and actually be horrifically abscessed. So the esthetics of a tooth do not always show the problems that are occurring inside of the tooth or in the bone around it.

2) When the onlay came off, it did so because bacteria had gotten in underneath the onlay, or decay had formed, or the seal of the cement had worn out.

3) If the onlay was in perfect condition and not worn down. If there was no decay and no structural problem with that tooth when the onlay came off, then the tooth could have been lightly cleaned up and the onlay could have been recemented.

4) Obviously there was something preventing the recementation of that onlay and that is why they proceeded to reprep the tooth for a new restoration.

5) The problems that occurred with the preparation of this tooth indicate that a fair amount of the tooth structure had a problem.... a problem that you may have not been unaware of. Depending on the skill of the dentist, these dental visits may or may not have been so dragged out. But it is clearly evident that there were issues with this tooth to begin with.

6) A post and a pin are two different things. You still have not established which one was placed in that tooth.

7) Yes, repeated drilling into a tooth is never okay for the health of the tooth. I agree this tooth was drilled upon too many times. All of which exacerbated the original issues going on with this tooth.

8) Again, due to your lack of dental knowledge... once that tooth was drilled into after the onlay came off, there was no way to then just put the old onlay back on. The drilling of the tooth reshaped the tooth, so the original onlay would not have fit properly.

9) Your knowledge about root canaled teeth and the systemic connection to non vital teeth is understandably limited. Each tooth whether it be vital or not is intricately connected to our overall health via blood vessels, nerves, ligaments.... other organs... etc.... etc. For health reasons, no where in the history of medicine has it ever been acceptable to retain a non vital body part. Teeth are no exception. So if you think that your non vital molar is not causing or contributing to inflammation and growth of bacteria in your jaw bone, connecting nerves and all else connected to it, you are mistaken.

I feel terrible that you have endured such pain and emotional upset with your teeth. But please try to keep an open mind about the information I am providing you because it may one day be of more help to you than you realize.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Vowel Lady

For starters...the tooth had an ONlay either due to a filling or crack. (I really doubt both) I do not recall the tooth looking weird in any way (small, dis colored, etc) and as you know, it didn't hurt)

"SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU ARE BLAMING YOUR NEURALGIA ON DENTAL TREATMENT BECAUSE AND I QUOTE YOU " I WENT INTO THE DENTAL OFFICE WITH NO PAIN AND CAME OUT IN PAIN". DOES THE SITUATION LOOK A BIT DIFFERENT TO YOU NOW?"

No no no no no. I think horrible dentistry is related to my neuralgia. Period.

It took a MONTH (or more) of CONSTANT drilling before I felt even some discomfort. A month+. That is not €#}% normal. And this crazy €#}%'dentist drilled my top tooth to the point that it looks and feels very weird and I worry about this tooth causing trouble down the road. After a month of drilling sometimes multiple times per week over the course of a month (maybe more,..it was a freakish long time) then a post was put in. THAT was when the hideous pain started. YES I do blame them because I can accept that as the owner dentist stated there was a physics problem that made the tooth hard to crown, so I can accept that it might take longer. But not over a month ofmCONSTANT drilling and then putting a post in my tooth. They essentially TORTURED my tooth, my nerve, my very being. This is so NOt normal behavior, normal dentistry. They should have SToPPED what they were doing and perhaps put the Daxx onlay back on and not tortured me and my Trigeminal nerve . I fully and totally blame them for having ZERO common sense, practicing BAD dentistry and permanently hurting me.

I am open to your general discussions of how root canals are damaging. But I do NOT think the fact that the tooth next to the onlay tooth (which was pulled) happened to be a rc tooth is related to my neuralgia.

I think horrible dentistry...is related to my neuralgia. Horrible, greedy, unprofessional, rushed, uncaring, deceitful dentists...that drilled into my tooth VERY frequently for a month or more, then put a pin into it....hurt my Trigeminal nerve. This is freakishly abnormal. I think if they had an ounce of common sense, they would have stepped back and NOT tortured that tooth, the nerve and me, the patient....leaving me with this permanent, very painful, injury.

And since that second idiot dentist recommended I rc the tooth and the third idiot dentist recommended I remove the tooth, I don't know if I can remove the rc tooth you are so worried about.
That was my back tooth that was removed and I'm under the impression I would have needed that tooth for a prosthesis.

All I got from these dentists is total lack of common sense, lying, unprofessionalism, stupidity, dishonesty, greed....and they took my money and hurt me PERMANeNTLY. And one of the dentists was a holistic dentist and was NOT on my insurance...I paid through the nose for his stupid opinion and tx.

Something to think about...if these dentists from hell, had said to themselves "let's abandon the crown" since we are freakin hurting this patient and put on an onlay...voila...I don't think any of this would have happened. And just maybe, I would have had some more options with the rc tooth next to it. I certainly wouldn't be so sick and in so much pain and I might have had some hope for an implant or prosthesis of some kind. Now, any work in that area is torturous and I don't know what I'm going to do as I have basically no options, no hope...the idiot dentists have caused a mess in more ways than one...of course the worst is destroying my health and causing permanent pain.

Btw, I often type on here from my iPad in a recliner chair in pain, so my grammar, etc. might not be the best.

PS if I took a hammer and banged hard on your arm (to kill a fly or something) repeatedly, in the same spot once or twice a week for 5 or 6 weeks consistently....do you think you would have some broken capillaries? Some very baddddd bruises? Then, how about if I glued something right on top of your bad bruise with permanent cement and had to drill it off for an hour. Would it be sore? Then, for kicks, Shortly afterward, I drilled a pin right into those bruises? And if something went wrong with your arm, would it be because there is something wrong with your shoulder or because you have an autoimmune disease or maybe you have some underlying blood disease that causes broken capillaries???? Because, how weird and what a shock that you have bruises and your arm is a mess. Why, good Lord, I have never in my life, in my entire practice as a fly on the arm smasher, have ever seen anyone react like this. Can't be my fault. Must be yours...or some old injury. What do you mean your arm was fine before. No it wasn't. It just looked fine. Nothing I have done with my hammer, drill, or pin could have caused those bruises.

Hard to find a good comparison, but I think the stupidity, lack of common sense and Repeated, constant, frequent torture of my Trigeminal nerve caused it DAMAGE ..leading to permanent, horrible, very painful neuralgia.

[Vowel Lady]

The onlay came off because I bit into a hard candy.

If you sprained your arm and then I beat on it for a few months in an effort to fix it, whose fault is it that you now have a broken arm?

More later...

[Bryanna]

Vowel Lady,

So most likely a piece of tooth also broke off or the tooth fractured when you bit into that hard candy and that is why the original onlay could not be placed back on.

I believe that tooth had several problems going on and you were not informed of what they were or they were not discovered until the tooth was reprepped for a new restoration.

A sprained arm and an unhealthy tooth are two different things. A sprained arm does not carry the risk of infectious bacteria... whereas an unhealthy tooth does.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Vowel Lady

The onlay came off because I bit into a hard candy.

If you sprained your arm and then I beat on it for a few months in an effort to fix it, whose fault is it that you now have a broken arm?

More later...

[Vowel Lady]

Bryanna, Why did you abandon your original idea that I developed nerve problems with tooth numberm31 due to the rc tooth next to it? Was it because tooth 31 probably had a crack in it? It is curious that no dentist mentioned the possibility of infection in this tooth, including the holistic dentist or the oral surgeon/MD.

Point number 7 is one of my main contentions. I think that under any and all situations, even a perfect tooth, they likely would have caused nerve damage. Repeated drilling and tapping for over a month, plus just the one hour of constant drilling to remove the crown, I think was enough to hurt the nerve even in a PER fECT tooth. Then there was the post (fairly sure it was a post). Of course their odd behaviors, including telling me that all that dental work couldn't cause a low grade fever and taking off on a three week vacation in a very "I don't care manner" when I was in trouble...doesn't help matters.

Yes, they couldn't have used my old onlay, because I lost it!!!!! But, since they were messing up on a grand scale with their idea of putting on a crown, their next option was redoing the onlay.

Although we don't agree on this, I do truly appreciate the insight into the possibilities of rc teeth causing infections and that cracked teeth can possibly be more of an issue than our dentists let on. Also, that you donate your time and knowledge to help people who are hurting so terribly.

I have always trusted dentists and ironically, for some unknown reason, my husband did not. I recall teasing him about this. NOT anymore. I have had my own experiences and have listened to a lot of very disturbing stories in the last several years that do not take an expert to understand they are abnormal. I appreciate your candor about some serious problems within this profession.

I also think folks who experience what appears to be or might be neuro damage should be checkd out by a neurologist.

I've seen people on line get offended too easily when someone doesn't agree with them and I sincerely hope that doesn't happen here.

Thank you.

[Bryanna]

Vowel Lady,

I do not recall abandoning anything that I have stated to you here. With each alteration or new detail you have offered to your dental story over the last several months, I have tried to address each of them as you offered them. I believe I have said, I felt there was more to the story than you had originally posted here.

I feel I need to remind you that I tend to a lot of people on this forum in a short amount of time. I also have people emailing me privately and I have my own patients to tend to at work. So to keep things clear, it is always best for the person posting to tell the whole story the first time rather than not.

I am not surprised at the lack of information you have been given by your dentists, holistic dentist, oral surgeon, etc. Dentists in general are very careful what they disclose to their patients especially if they cannot prove their suspicions or they feel the patient is a bit hostile. There biggest fear is a lawsuit and they know all the tricks to avoid that from happening.

It is typical, and perhaps someone will chime in here who has experienced it, for the tooth to be drilled on for an hour when preparing it for a crown. Is that healthy for the tooth, no, but it's done all the time. Is it typical to take an hour to drill off a crown, yes it is as the burs are not meant to cut through the thickness of a crown very easily and if the crown is well cemented on, it is even more difficult to remove it. Does it happen every time, no it does not.

Have you ever posted an xray of tooth #30 and 31 here? I'm sorry I just don't recall if you have. Are you curious about the pin or post that was placed in that tooth? If so, could you re-post the xrays please?

I agree with you that people should consult with a neurologist if that is warranted. Otherwise, I think it is most important to rule out fractured teeth, infection and non vitality first.

BTW... I am confident in the knowledge that I have and I'm not the least bit offended by anyone who has a different opinion. I understand that many people have been ill informed about their dentistry and that is the knowledge they have to base their opinion on. I think knowledge is powerful and that is why I continue to come here and offer it. Some will be open to it, while others won't be.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Vowel Lady

Bryanna, Why did you abandon your original idea that I developed nerve problems with tooth numberm31 due to the rc tooth next to it? Was it because tooth 31 probably had a crack in it? It is curious that no dentist mentioned the possibility of infection in this tooth, including the holistic dentist or the oral surgeon/MD.

Point number 7 is one of my main contentions. I think that under any and all situations, even a perfect tooth, they likely would have caused nerve damage. Repeated drilling and tapping for over a month, plus just the one hour of constant drilling to remove the crown, I think was enough to hurt the nerve even in a PER fECT tooth. Then there was the post (fairly sure it was a post). Of course their odd behaviors, including telling me that all that dental work couldn't cause a low grade fever and taking off on a three week vacation in a very "I don't care manner" when I was in trouble...doesn't help matters.

Yes, they couldn't have used my old onlay, because I lost it!!!!! But, since they were messing up on a grand scale with their idea of putting on a crown, their next option was redoing the onlay.

Although we don't agree on this, I do truly appreciate the insight into the possibilities of rc teeth causing infections and that cracked teeth can possibly be more of an issue than our dentists let on. Also, that you donate your time and knowledge to help people who are hurting so terribly.

I have always trusted dentists and ironically, for some unknown reason, my husband did not. I recall teasing him about this. NOT anymore. I have had my own experiences and have listened to a lot of very disturbing stories in the last several years that do not take an expert to understand they are abnormal. I appreciate your candor about some serious problems within this profession.

I also think folks who experience what appears to be or might be neuro damage should be checkd out by a neurologist.

I've seen people on line get offended too easily when someone doesn't agree with them and I sincerely hope that doesn't happen here.

Thank you.