The alternative to root canal is no bargain either. I looked up the complications associated with an extraction. According to Wikipedia:

Infection: The dentists may opt to prescribe antibiotics pre- and/or post-operatively if they determine the patient to be at risk.
Prolonged bleeding: The dentist has a variety of means at their disposal to address bleeding; however, it is important to note that small amounts of blood mixed in the saliva after extractions are normal, even up to 72 hours after extraction. Usually, however, bleeding will almost completely stop within eight hours of the surgery, with only minuscule amounts of blood mixed with saliva coming from the wound. A gauze compress will significantly reduce bleeding over a period of a few hours.
Swelling: Often dictated by the amount of surgery performed to extract a tooth (e.g. surgical insult to the tissues both hard and soft surrounding a tooth). Generally, when a surgical flap must be elevated (i.e. and the periosteum covering the bone is thus injured), minor to moderate swelling will occur. A poorly-cut soft tissue flap, for instance, where the periosteum is torn off rather than cleanly elevated off the underlying bone, will often increase such swelling. Similarly, when bone must be removed using a drill, more swelling is likely to occur.
Bruising: Bruising may occur as a complication after tooth extraction. Bruising is more common in older people or people on aspirin or steroid therapy. It may take weeks for bruising to disappear completely.
Sinus exposure and oral-antral communication: This can occur when extracting upper molars (and in some patients, upper premolars). The maxillary sinus sits right above the roots of maxillary molars and premolars. There is a bony floor of the sinus dividing the tooth socket from the sinus itself. This bone can range from thick to thin from tooth to tooth from patient to patient. In some cases it is absent and the root is in fact in the sinus. At other times, this bone may be removed with the tooth, or may be perforated during surgical extractions. The doctor typically mentions this risk to patients, based on evaluation of radiographs showing the relationship of the tooth to the sinus. It is important to note that the sinus cavity is lined with a membrane called the Sniderian membrane, which may or may not be perforated. If this membrane is exposed after an extraction, but remains intact, a "sinus exposed" has occurred. If the membrane is perforated, however, it is a "sinus communication". These two conditions are treated differently. In the event of a sinus communication, the dentist may decide to let it heal on its own or may need to surgically obtain primary closure—depending on the size of the exposure as well as the likelihood of the patient to heal. In both cases, a resorbable material called "gelfoam" is typically placed in the extraction site to promote clotting and serve as a framework for granulation tissue to accumulate. Patients are typically provided with prescriptions for antibiotics that cover sinus bacterial flora, decongestants, as well as careful instructions to follow during the healing period.
Nerve injury: This is primarily an issue with extraction of third molars, but can occur with the extraction of any tooth should the nerve be close to the surgical site. Two nerves are typically of concern, and are found in duplicate (one left and one right): 1. the inferior alveolar nerve, which enters the mandible at the mandibular foramen and exits the mandible at the sides of the chin from the mental foramen. This nerve supplies sensation to the lower teeth on the right or left half of the dental arch, as well as sense of touch to the right or left half of the chin and lower lip. 2. The lingual nerve (one right and one left), which branches off the mandibular branches of the trigeminal nerve and courses just inside the jaw bone, entering the tongue and supplying sense of touch and taste to the right and left half of the anterior 2/3 of the tongue as well as the lingual gingiva (i.e. the gums on the inside surface of the dental arch). Such injuries can occur while lifting teeth (typically the inferior alveolar), but are most commonly caused by inadvertent damage with a surgical drill. Such injuries are rare and are usually temporary, but depending on the type of injury (i.e. Seddon classification: neuropraxia, axonotmesis, & neurotmesis), can be prolonged or even permanent.
Displacement of tooth or part of tooth into the maxillary sinus (upper teeth only). In such cases, almost always the tooth or tooth fragment must be retrieved. In some cases, the sinus cavity can be irrigated with saline (antral lavage) and the tooth fragment may be brought back to the site of the opening through which it entered the sinus, and may be retrievable. At other times, a window must be made into the sinus in the Canine fossa--a procedure referred to as "Caldwell-Luc".
Dry socket (Alveolar osteitis) is a painful phenomenon that most commonly occurs a few days following the removal of mandibular (lower) wisdom teeth. It typically occurs when the blood clot within the healing tooth extraction site is disrupted. More likely,[citation needed] alveolar osteitis is a phenomenon of painful inflammation within the empty tooth socket because of the relatively poor blood supply to this area of the mandible (which explains why dry socket is usually not experienced in other parts of the jaws). Inflamed alveolar bone, unprotected and exposed to the oral environment after tooth extraction, can become packed with food and debris. A dry socket typically causes a sharp and sudden increase in pain commencing 2–5 days following the extraction of a mandibular molar, most commonly the third molar. This is often extremely unpleasant for the patient; the only symptom of dry socket is pain, which often radiates up and down the head and neck. A dry socket is not an infection, and is not directly associated with swelling because it occurs entirely within bone – it is a phenomenon of inflammation within the bony lining of an empty tooth socket. Because dry socket is not an infection, the use of antibiotics has no effect on its rate of occurrence. The risk factor for alveolar osteitis can dramatically increase with smoking after an extraction.
Bone fragments: Particularly when extraction of molars is involved, it is not uncommon for the bones which formerly supported the tooth to shift and in some cases to erupt through the gums, presenting protruding sharp edges which can irritate the tongue and cause discomfort. This is distinguished from a similar phenomenon where broken fragments of bone or tooth left over from the extraction can also protrude through the gums. In the latter case, the fragments will usually work their way out on their own. In the former case, the protrusions can either be snipped off by the dentist, or eventually the exposed bone will erode away on its own.
Trismus: Jaw joints and chewing muscles may become sore after tooth extraction and it may become difficult for patient to open the mouth.
Loss of a tooth: If an extracted tooth slips out of the forceps, it may be swallowed or inhaled. The patient may be aware of swallowing it, or they may cough, which suggests inhalation of the tooth. The patient must be referred to for a chest Xray in hospital if a tooth cannot be found. If it has been swallowed, no action is necessary as it usually passes through the alimentary canal without doing any harm. But if it has been inhaled, an urgent operation is necessary to recover it from the airway or lung before it causes serious complications such as pneumonia or a lung abscess.[3]

Magi,

OMG!! Wikipedia is great if you want the what ifs... or the maybes... but it only offers the dark side of extraction because who ever wrote it has no clue of the positive side of extraction, especially in comparison to retaining a root canaled tooth. So it is a lay persons translation of whatever they could find in their search for information on the procedure itself.

MOST of those negative things never happen! Believe me, I'm in dentistry many years... I would tell you if they did. There are always risks of complications with any surgery anyplace on or in the body. The mouth is not any different. If I was to give you a similar detailed synopsis (like Wikipedia did) about teeth cleaning or dental fillings or anything else associated with dentistry... you might not want to ever go to the dentist! But why ponder so heavily on the negatives of things that rarely happen?

It is a different story with root canaled teeth... as they can never be made healthy again and the bacteria will eventually proliferate beyond the tooth. That is not hearsay or just my opinion... that has been scientifically proven time and time again. For that reason, the dark side to retaining a root canaled tooth is far greater than having the tooth removed. The systemic risks associated with any oral infection are GREAT and are often misdiagnosed or over looked as they spread to other areas of the body.

I have had patients, friends, and known of others through my peers .... who have become seriously ill and even died from oral infections that were diagnosed too late to eradicate or picked up during an autopsy. Many systemic health conditions and auto immune disorders are connected to our dental health ... diabetes.. coronary artery disease...parkinsons disease... angioedema... high blood pressure... intestinal disorders ...... etc.

The subject of oral infection is a very serious one and should be taken care of when the disease is in the early stages. Rather than after the damage has already been done. That is why I urge people to consider their options before having a tooth root canaled... and how important it is to be informed of the risks of retaining an infected tooth.

Thanks for sharing the article.... scary as it is!! It shows you are doing the research and that is good!!!

Bryanna

I tried to search for actual studies on pubmedDOTgov but I can't find anything pro or con. Could you point me to some scientific studies that prove this?

Hi Bryanna,
His office is to email me a detailed breakdown of all what would be done for that price so that I can check with my insurance company within the week but I have not received it yet. Though I want to be as informed as possible, my first inclination is to not to go down this path. The main reason is that it seems kind of irreversible if it doesn't work, plus the cost too. I am not convinced at this point that TMJ is my problem and I am getting a bit wore down by all these differing dental perspectives. This was the 4th dentist that I have gone to (1 conventional, 3 holistic) in the last 3 months for my problems. I do appreciate that the one Doctor did agree that root canals are problematic and removed mine according to the extraction process (periodontal ligament, etc.) that I requested after reading a few whole body dental books but he doesn't believe in implants and he doesn't seem to get what I am saying when I tell him that #4 seems high to me now (as if when #2 and #3 were removed that it got lifted up somewhat in the process, though it does not feel loose to the touch). At the end of the day, I would like an implant for #3 (I do have #30 for a chewing buddy), to get rid of this strange high feeling in my mouth on the right side around #4 and get rid of the rest of the amalgam fillings and nickel based crowns I have in a healthy, safe manner. I really appreciate your even and patient approach with all of us who contact you and so I was wondering if you have any advice for me at this point? Would an implant be at risk from a bite adjustment problem or TMJ if that is what is really going on?

Magi,

I will provide these links for you about root canal therapy and you can follow up on them as you wish.
http://ppnf.org/?s=root+canal+cover+up&post_type=0

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/rootc...p02apr04.shtml

For additional scientific research and pathological results, buy the books entitled:

Root Canal Cover Up by Dr George Meinig.
Brief bio on Dr Meinig
http://instituteofscience.blogspot.c...ec-1914-2.html

The Roots of Disease Connecting Medicine and Dentistry by Dr Robert Kulacz.


The articles that are pro Endodontic therapy are easily obtainable. After all it is a multi million dollar profession! I will not provide those for you as they intentionally offer a partial explanation of the acutal procedure and completely neglect to inform about the risks associated with retaining an infected tooth.

The science regarding bacteria and infection is very simple and well documented in medical and dental literature but it is often written for the professionals rather than the public. So as a lay person, you will need to rely on other trusted sources. So perhaps you will find the work of Dr Meinig, Dr Kulacz, Dr Price, reliable sources since they all were in the thick of things and fortunately lived to write about it for the betterment of all people.

Good luck on your journey. I hope your research helps you make the choice that you feel is in your best interest.

Bryanna




QUOTE=iammagi36;991843]I tried to search for actual studies on pubmedDOTgov but I can't find anything pro or con. Could you point me to some scientific studies that prove this?[/QUOTE]

Hi Bryanna,

I am new to this board and could not figure how to post to you directly, hopefully you read this message.

For the past 7 months I have been suffering from a sudden onset of sinus pressure behind and around the eyes. I had 5 root canals and I decided to have all 5 removed by a true, by Dr Huggins highly recommended biological dentist/surgeon. I/We anticipated some problems due to the length of my #14 root. In short, once they got on to the root, they were having problems with extraction because the roots were so brittle. They finally got to the tip which was not perforating the sinus membrane, but the Gutta Percha was. They had some real problems with the remaining Gutta Percha(that was sticking out of the sinus membrane) and (I guess there was only a little tip of it left) so the surgeon cut around it and pushed it through into the sinus cavity. She said the sinus perforation was pretty good size so be careful for 2 to 3 weeks. They covered the sinus perforation with GelFoam and sutured the extraction site.

It has now been 3 months. The surgeon assured me that the Gutta Percha would just flush out with my mucous. Well I never noticed anything metal/hard piece come out, but on the first night of surgey(i was still doped) there was a big glob of blood and junk that I hacked up..... Since then I have not noticed any communication, drainage In/or Out, of sinus/oral/nose area. It still periodically aches a bit, but is pretty much healed over and pink now.

Well since I still have chronic sinus pressure/dry crusty nostrils/and prone to sinus infection(this was all due to pre extraction not post). Is it safe to do a Friggy Flip Turn Sinus flush(where I flip upside down to get the saline solution in my upper sphenoid/Ethmoid sinuses).... or do you think its possible that the little piece of Gutta Percha will go up into those upper sinuses with the flush and get stuck up there creating more serious problems. And also, will the sinus flush somehow cause problems with the sinus preforated area and have some odd 3 month delay sinus/oral communication(which I think i have read online somewhere) ?

Hi Johnmax,

You can always post to me on here or pm me if you want. I usually check in daily.

The first thing I would suggest is to have dental panoramic xray done to see where that piece of gutta percha is or isn't lingering in the sinus before doing any Friggy Flip turn sinus flush(!!) upside down or right side up ;>.

Root canaled teeth are such a PITA for so many reasons but one of the most bothersome reasons is that once the bacteria from those infected teeth settles in the sinus cavity it can leave a chronic sinus problem for the remainder of that persons life. I hope that is not the case with you!

But seriously before doing any sinus flush.... get that xray first.
Also, what might help you in the long run too is to seek the help of a nutritionist or naturopathic physician who can guide you with some helpful suggestions on how to deal with a chronic sinus issue. We tend to think of our sinuses as separate organs from the rest of the body... but in reality the health of our sinuses depends a lot on our digestion and the balance of our intestinal flora.

Let us know the results of the panoramic xray...

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna:
Thank so much for your advice and help in the past. I have some more dental questions for you. At this point I am 2 and a half months since my root canal extractions of #2 and #3 and 1 month since #31 root canal extraction. I think I had mentioned before that #2 had roots very close to my sinus and upon removal the Doctor showed me the infected root canaled teeth and the large abcess sac hanging off #2 that was wedged between #2 and #3. He did remove the periodontal ligament and cleaned the area well but I have some concerns at this point about a few things. I have slight aching and discomfort along the socket areas of #2 and #3. I also feel that the extraction of #3 lifted #4 somewhat (Is this possible?) because my bite feels like I catch on #4 somewhat (as if it is slightly higher now). I have recently went to another holistic dentist to see about what I am feeling but he says that I have TMJ which he feels requires an ortho appliance (plus adjustment, equilibriation, etc) on my lower jaw. Perhaps that maybe but I am hesitant to go down that path since prior to my root canal flare-up and extractions I did not have jaw pain. So here are my questions and any thoughts you may have would be very appreciated.
[*]Could the discomfort in #2 and #3 be part of the healing process as the tissues expand/contract or could a cavitation be happening? Should I get an X-ray or give it more time?[*]Could have #4 been affected by the extraction of #3? If so, will it re-set to it's original position given enough time?[*]I now notice I wake up with my teeth clenched (particularly were on my right side at #4's position) could this be do to the trauma of the extractions and will subside at some point?[*]I would like to get an implant for #3 since I have its chewing buddy #30 but this latest dentist says (if I am understanding him correctly) I need to be careful that there is no residual infection in the upper jawbone to insure the longevity of the implant. If this is true, how long would I need to wait and what would I need to do to make sure that I could go forward with an implant?[*]This latest dentist says that having the proper bite alignment is crucial for an implants long term success (past its 10 year average life span) and that I must address this issue with my TMJ before embarking on an implant. I am considering going to yet another dentist because I am wary about a TMJ diagnosis for myself but aside from that, would I be putting an implant at risk because of potential alignment issues?

Thank you,
Samantha

[QUOTE=iammagi36;991432]I found this thread after having an extraction that apparently perforated the sinus. The tooth was infected (see attached photos) and I obviously waited too long. I realized it was perforated when I tried to sniff I could feel air bubbles coming up through my tooth which just had bone graft material put in. It looked fine to my dentist in the xray. When I go home I bent over and a little bit of blood came out of my nose. I also spit out a small clump of blood surrounded by mucus. Since then (24hrs later) everything seems fine. My sinuses are clear and I only have minor pain at the site where the tooth was and no swelling anymore. I started on a Z-Pack yesterday. Should everything heal without the need for further treatment? I'm worried I'm not out of the woods yet.


QUOTE]

Here it is 12 days after the extraction. I saw the dentist a couple of days ago and she said it looked good. Although the pain has been decreasing every day today I noticed it is infected again. The bump that was on my upper gum is back and it's hurting more today than it did yesterday. My ear hurts a little too. This morning she phoned me in another round of Amoxycillin TR-K CLV 875mg twice a day, 14 tablets (today is Sunday). I will see her again on Tuesday. I can't believe there's any bits of tooth left to cause the recurring infection since she x-rayed it after the procedure and from looking at the tooth the root tip (see attachment) it was encapsulated by the cyst. She did a bone graft as well so she debrided the bone. Could it be she left infected bone up there, or an infected ligament? What can be done other than antibiotics? Was the problem I just needed a longer run and higher dose of antibiotics (or did the Z-pack interfere) or is something radically wrong? I'm very worried now.

BTW, in my initial post I stated I began with a Z-pack (which I took to completion). I also began taking Amoxicillin in addition to the Z-pack after day three because the infection didn't seem to be going away completely even though most of the swelling (bump) went away. Once I started the Amoxicillin the swelling gum went away completely within less than 48 hours. It seems the perforated sinus healed fine also (no bleeding, swelling or pain).

Attached Thumbnails

 

[/QUOTE]

I explained the highlights of this info to my dentist. She's also a personal friend so I can speak frankly. She hadn't heard about any of this but she agreed. She said there so many little canals in a tooth, not just the roots, it's impossible to disinfect it. She said that's why she refers most of her root canals to other dentists. It takes forever to do it right and even then it will never be antiseptic. She said it made sense to her that it would especially be undesirable to people with impaired immune systems. The problem is she felt people perceive an extraction as a much more major procedure than a root canal. It's also more expensive for an extraction bone graft and a bridge or a implant. She also acknowledges that implants aren't free from trouble either. Some people are allergic to the metals, especially titanium. What it seems we're dealing with is a brainwashed/misinformed/thrifty public, and dentists who don't have the guts, and fear they can't afford to buck the trend. Not to mention I'm sure they know bucking community standards can lead to lawsuits and other troubles.

I think if they were referred people who were already enlightened they would be more than glad to accommodate. It's just that it's hard to educate someone who all their life has been conditioned to believe otherwise in the short time a dental consultation allows. What's needed is some professional very well done illustrative videos to show them.