Eyanosa,

I apologize if I am misinterpreting your intentions but in my opinion you are coming across as very defensive and there is really no need to do that. I am a volunteer here and as a courtesy I offer my expertise in dentistry and knowledge in nutrition to people who come here for help. I understand that this has been a huge undertaking for you to go through and it is not an easy journey by any means. I also understand, as you have stated, that you have some financial issues that prohibit you from seeking care from an oral surgeon. I also understand, as you have stated, that the availability of certain things seems to be difficult for you. People come to this site from all parts of the world from poverty to wealthy, from rural to big cities. So those and similar issues that you claim to be dealing with have been recognized here many, many times before. I just want you to be aware that what you have stated here is all being taken into account.

With that said.... no one here wants you to suffer with complications following your oral surgery. So the only help I or anyone else here can offer you is some healthy suggestions.

Drinking water flushes out bacteria, toxins and hydrates the body so it can function better. All of which decrease the risk of post op complications and helps the body to heal. Irrelevant of your addiction to soda, it is worse to keep consuming it because of the damage it causes. Perhaps you can cut back on the soda drastically and replace it with water? I am offering this just as a suggestion to help you prevent further sickness and post op complications.

Just to clarify for you and those who are reading along and are concerned about gum disease ...... hereditary factors for periodontal disease does not mean that someone is doomed to get the disease. Periodontal disease is 100% preventable even if both parents had it. The disease is caused by an infectious bacteria called plaque and the accumulation of plaque develops in people, who for whatever their reasons may be, have poor oral hygiene. Other contributing factors to gum disease and tooth decay are poor nutrition, smoking and certain medications. It does not take long for the plaque to accumulate and cause decay, infection, bone recession and loss of teeth. People who smoke are 50% more likely to develop periodontal disease because the toxic chemicals in the tobacco prohibit proper red blood cell formation, deprive the oral tissue and gums of oxygen and dry out the salivary glands.

Loss of enamel on teeth is called enamel hypoplasia and there are different causes, forms and severity of this condition. Total loss of enamel on every tooth is very rare. Most cases are limited to just a few areas and can be kept from progressing with good oral hygiene habits, avoidance of sugar/soda, sticky and starchy foods, and fairly good health. In dentistry enamel hypoplasia is also seen in people who routinely drink fluoridated water and babies/children who take fluoridated vitamins. Fluoride weakens the enamel and leads to a condition called fluorosis.

Withdrawal from soda whether you consume diet soda or other is going to be difficult, but healthier in the long run. Perhaps the key is to discipline yourself not to drink soda all the time and replace it with water. You will also be saving money if you buy less soda. If you are worried that the withdrawal is going to give you a heart attack, I assume you have similar worries with drinking it? So it would behoove you to drastically cut back and set a healthier goal for yourself. Especially since you recognize the health risks of drinking it and seem to want to take more control of your health at this time.

Regarding buying fresh food.... is there a grocery store that offers a delivery service that would be reasonable for you to afford? Here in NJ, even rural NJ where I live, the major grocery stores offer home delivery service for a minimal fee to those who cannot travel or get out on their own. If there were then that could offer you the option of getting fresh foods that you can make healthy home made soups, stews, and casseroles all of which you could eat with or without your teeth.

My intentions are to offer you helpful, thoughtful suggestions. I hope you will interpret them that way.

Yes, I am being a little defensive because some of the stuff you say makes me feel like you are saying I am not being truthful in my statements. So, when I feel like one is basically calling me a liar, I get defensive. Also, I came here for help regarding the pain I was feeling, I was asking for why and what to buy to relieve it, instead I get preached to about soda. Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate the help and the advice, but you only need to say it once, not every single post.

As for the food issue, no, there is no such thing. The nearest place I can shop at is a Wal-Mart and they do not offer that type of service. All I can do, is buy what I can eat, however I can, regardless of how you or I feel about it.

So, with those topics concluded, I still need an answer to my original, and further, questions;

1. What could be causing the pain in the gums beneath my nose? (keep in mind, this is not the type of pain associated with dry socket)
2. What can I buy (over-the-counter) that is designed to help with this kind of pain?
3. Why is the front of the gum in that area moving around? Shouldn't there be pieces of the gum in between each tooth that would be preventing that?
4. Another dentist asked if they used sutures. When I said no, they instantly responded with "Interesting". Does this mean that sutures are usually used in these cases? (keep in mind all of the teeth in question required surgical extraction)
5. Based on the ADA Code of Ethics issues, should I find another dentist or just continue to let this one do the work?
6. Lastly, another dentist told me with all the work that was done, I should wait at least 2 weeks, if not a month, before getting the rest taken care of. They said this is to allow the gums to heal so I will be able to eat something other than mashed potatoes. In your 36 years of experience, is this recommended?

I am not trying to be a jerk, rude, obnoxious, mean, or anything else. I am just trying to figure out what to do about the issue at hand.

eyanosa,

I do not think you are lying, I think you honestly believe everything you are saying. I feel you do not truly understand or accept responsibility for the magnitude or the extent of your dental problems and that is why you do not understand how your oral hygiene and poor nutrition are playing a huge role in what is going on with your post operative problems. That is not me preaching that is me answering you honestly.

I don't know where you live but the Wal Marts that have a grocery store in them do deliver groceries to many areas... and they have fresh food.
http://delivery.walmart.com/usd-esto...ouslanding.jsp

I will re post your questions and answer them in bold type. Please do not mistake my answers for preaching just because I am repeating myself. I am honestly answering your questions....

<<[*]What could be causing the pain in the gums beneath my nose? (keep in mind, this is not the type of pain associated with dry socket)>>

THE DENTIST MAY HAVE MADE AN INCISION THERE AND IT MAY BE INFECTED AND/OR IRRITATED FROM PLAQUE AND FOOD DEBRIS. BACTERIA FEED ON SUGAR AND SUGAR SUBSTITUTES LIKE ASPARTAME AS IT IS BEING DIGESTED. SO THE SUGAR NEVER HAS TO TOUCH YOUR GUMS, IT JUST HAS TO BE INGESTED. THERE IS MOST LIKELY INFECTION IN THE BONE AND POSSIBLY SPLINTERED BONE WHICH OCCURS WHEN THE BONE IS FRAGILE FROM DISEASE. IF THERE ARE SORES OR RED/WHITE PATCHES, IT COULD BE CANKER SORES OR APHTHOUS ULCERS FROM THE TRAUMA OF THE SURGERY WHICH FEED OFF OF PLAQUE AND SUGAR.

<<[*]What can I buy (over-the-counter) that is designed to help with this kind of pain?>>

ANYTHING YOU APPLY TOPICALLY IS GOING TO CURE THE PAIN BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS NOT A MINOR TOPICAL IRRITATION. IT IS AN ANATOMICAL PROBLEM DUE TO BACTERIA. THE SOLUTION IS TO REDUCE THE BACTERIA AND FEED YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM SO IT CAN DO ITS JOB. NOT TO BE REPETITIVE BUT DRINKING WATER TO THE TUNE OF 64 OUNCES A DAY WILL HELP FLUSH OUT THE TOXINS AND THE BACTERIA AND ENCOURAGE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO FUNCTION BETTER.

<<Why is the front of the gum in that area moving around? Shouldn't there be pieces of the gum in between each tooth that would be preventing that?>>

IN CASES LIKE YOURS THE LONG TERM DETERIORATION OF THE TEETH AND THE BONE ALONG WITH THE DISEASED GUM TISSUE WILL PREVENT PROPER PRIMARY (INITIAL) CLOSURE TO THOSE AREAS. HEALTHY GUMS ARE THICK AND FIBROUS. DISEASED GUMS ARE LIKE TISSUE PAPER FROM ALL THE INFECTION.

<<[*]Another dentist asked if they used sutures. When I said no, they instantly responded with "Interesting". Does this mean that sutures are usually used in these cases? (keep in mind all of the teeth in question required surgical extraction)>>

THAT DENTIST ONLY ASKED BECAUSE HE WANTED TO KNOW IF SUTURES HAD COME OUT ON THEIR OWN OR NOT. GENERALLY THERE ARE TWO REASONS FOR NOT SUTURING IN A CASE LIKE YOURS :

1) THE GUM TISSUE AS I SAID IN MY LAST PARAGRAPH IS THIN LIKE TISSUE PAPER. SO WHEN YOU PUT A SUTURE NEEDLE THROUGH THAT TISSUE AND TRY TO THREAD A SUTURE THROUGH IT, THE TISSUE RIPS.

2) YOU HAVE INFECTION UNDER THE GUMS AND IN THE BONE THAT THE DENTIST PROBABLY FELT SINCE THE SUTURES WEREN'T GOING TO HOLD, HE MIGHT AS WELL LEAVE THE WOUNDS OPEN TO DRAIN. THIS IS ONE REASON WHY I SUGGESTED THAT YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLEAN, BRUSH YOUR REMAINING TEETH AND DRINK LOTS OF WATER.

<<[*]Based on the ADA Code of Ethics issues, should I find another dentist or just continue to let this one do the work?>>

ALL DENTISTS ARE SUPPOSE TO ADHERE TO THAT CODE OF ETHICS, NO EXCEPTIONS. IT IS CONSIDERED UNETHICAL TO IGNORE AN EMERGENCY CALL FROM A PATIENT. THOSE THAT DO NOT ADHERE TO THIS CODE ARE OFTEN FROWNED UPON BY THEIR PEERS BECAUSE THEIR PEERS ARE THE ONES WHO END UP SEEING THEIR EMERGENCIES. IT IS YOUR CHOICE WHO TO SEE FOR YOUR DENTAL CARE. YOU MAY FIND IT DIFFICULT TO GET A NEW DENTIST TO TAKE YOUR CASE ON BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY BEEN STARTED BY SOMEONE ELSE. WITH THAT SAID, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO GET AN ORAL SURGEON TO TAKE IT ON BECAUSE HIS SPECIALTY IS ORAL SURGERY.

<<[*]Lastly, another dentist told me with all the work that was done, I should wait at least 2 weeks, if not a month, before getting the rest taken care of. They said this is to allow the gums to heal so I will be able to eat something other than mashed potatoes. In your 36 years of experience, is this recommended?>>

THERE ARE PLENTY OF NUTRITIOUS MEALS YOU CAN EAT WITHOUT TEETH. FRESH FRUIT AND VEGGIES CAN BE MASHED, BLENDED, PAR BOILED. VEGGIES AND COOKED MEAT CAN BE MADE INTO SOUPS, STEWS, CHILLI, AND CASSEROLES.
IN YOUR CASE DUE TO THE SEVERITY AND LONGEVITY OF THE INFECTION, THE LONGER YOU HOLD ON TO THE REST OF YOUR TEETH, THE LONGER YOU WILL TAKE TO HEAL BECAUSE THE SURGICAL AREAS CANNOT HEAL PROPERLY WHILE THERE IS STILL INFECTION PRESENT.
SOME DENTISTS WILL REMOVE EVERYTHING AT ONCE TO ALLOW THE MOUTH AND BODY TO HEAL AT ONE TIME.
OTHER DENTISTS WILL REMOVE SOME TEETH, THEN A MONTH OR SO LATER REMOVE OTHERS. HOWEVER THE RECOVERY IN THOSE CASES IS GENERALLY A LOT LONGER.

NOT TO SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD BUT THE KEY TO LESS POST OP PAIN AND COMPLICATIONS AND MORE COMPLETE HEALING IS TO DELIBERATELY DO THINGS THAT WILL HELP YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM RATHER THAN DO THINGS THAT CAUSE IT TO WORK HARDER. YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE AND UNLESS YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO SHIFT THINGS AROUND SO YOU CAN EAT AND DRINK HEALTHIER, I'M AFRAID THIS IS GOING TO BE A TROUBLESOME JOURNEY FOR YOU.

<<I am not trying to be a jerk, rude, obnoxious, mean, or anything else. I am just trying to figure out what to do about the issue at hand.>>

I DON'T THINK YOU ARE BEING ANY OF THOSE THINGS. I THINK THIS IS A SCARY TIME FOR YOU AND YOU'RE STRESSED OVER THE WHOLE THING. I THINK YOU HAVE MADE EXCUSES FOR YOUR DENTAL PROBLEMS FOR MANY YEARS. THAT IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A JUDGMENTAL COMMENT AS MANY PEOPLE FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY AND FOR MANY DIFFERENT REASONS. WE EACH HAVE OUR OWN CROSSES TO BEAR AND SOMETIMES OUT OF FEAR, FINANCES, AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE WE TAKE A LONG TIME TO CONVINCE OURSELVES THAT WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE, INCLUDING MYSELF, WHO HAS NOT DONE THAT AT SOME POINT IN THEIR LIFE.

I AM TRULY TRYING TO HELP YOU THE BEST WAY THAT I KNOW HOW. THE HEALTHIER YOU ARE THROUGH THIS PROCESS, THE BETTER YOU FEEL AND THE BETTER THE OVERALL OUTCOME WILL BE.

Honestly, I think there has been a lot of miscommunication (or incorrect assumptions) going on here. I will try to fix those as best as I can. As for the 'poor oral hygiene', as of now, there is only two things I am not doing. I am not brushing my other teeth and I am drinking some soda (I will go into the soda a later on). I did try to brush my teeth once already (the day after the extractions) and the area with the clots started bleeding. I use a very soft toothbrush and I use a baking soda based toothpaste (was needed before the extractions to help prevent sensitivity). As for my previous dental problems, you are right. I had extensive issues, and I knew this. I also understood and had accepted responsibility for everything I had caused; however, to completely say it was 100% my fault, would be like saying an owner of an old pinto was at fault for the gas tank blowing up. Considering I took care of myself for 25 years and saw a dentist every 6 months, I find it extremely disrespectful that you continue to blame poor oral hygiene for the cause of this issue, when once again, I have told you this problem occured regardless of what I, or my dentists, did.

Not available in my area. This is probably because my nearest Wal-Mart is 2 hours away. I highly doubt ANYONE would ever drive 2 hours to deliver some groceries.

Dentist never once picked up a scalpel. The only tools he ever used was a pick, pliers, and drill. Infection in the bone is guaranteed since I already told you it was like that from the beginning. However, he did say my jaw bones were in pretty good condition considering the rest of my mouth and the infection. He said he was quite surprised by that. So I doubt there was any splintering going on, though I could be wrong. Also, this pain is not centered on the bone, but the gum itself, specifically, on the top of it where it is trying to close up. I also don't see any sores or patches on the gums. There is; however, a line behind that area right below the roof of my mouth. It hurts. To my tongue, it feels like a cut; however, my husband says it looks more like pinched skin would look.

Ok, not looking for topical as anbasol and such only work for like 5 minutes. I am looking for something more pill form. Tylenol and Advil is not working. The 30 mg of codeine I take is not helping. And the Fioricet doesn't work either. They even have me on 250 mg prescription based Naproxen. It does help prevent some throbbing, but not much in the way of pain.

Ok......this is where the incorrect assumptions is coming into play. I did tell you earlier that I drink soda. I said I drink it because it is affordable. I; however, NEVER said it was the only thing I drink...period. I drink soda throughout the day, maybe 6 to 8 cans per day. Yes, that is bad, but, last I checked, if I want to drink some soda, no one can tell me not to. Also, as I said, it is not the only thing I drink. I generally drink about 5-6 glasses of water each day (more or less depending on how hot it is outside) and the glasses I use are large 16 ounce glasses. This means, each day I can drink up to 96 ounces of water. Also, when I am really hot or thirsty, I will drink some Gatorade instead of soda, or I might switch it up and drink some Ocean Sprays cranberry grape juice (I don't get this very often due to it's cost). There was also one time about 3 years ago where I stopped drinking soda totally and completely. It was no big deal but that was when I found out the hard way that soda is priced to keep a low income person stuck on it. This is because everything else you could buy is much more expensive. Also, do not tell me that one can drink nothing but water because even water can be deadly if you drink too much of it (it's called dilutional hyponatremia, look it up).


Don't really have much to say on this one. I can accept these possible explanations.


Ok, I will have him check them over today and make sure there is no problem, but go some where else for the rest of the work. Thanks for the advice on that. I just feel, if he is already breaking the Code of Ethics on this little stuff, what other codes (or laws for that matter) won't he break.

Ok, I didn't ask you what I could eat without teeth. I didn't ask you about how to increase the speed of my healing. All I asked you here was, is it usual to wait for 2 or more weeks after surgery before beginning another round of it? I ask this not only because of what the other dentist said, but even you missed something in your answer. You stated that some dentists will remove some teeth and wait a month or so. Mine removed some teeth and wants to start again, exactly 7 days later. I am worried, because of how much trauma he caused the first time, he would rip up all of the healing that has already been done.

No, not really scary. More, annoying. Also, I never made any excuses. I was born a certain way and that destroyed my oral health. I could have just said screw it and continue to take care of them as I always had before, but I just gave up. If I had, I would probably only be losing some of them and not all of them, at least right now anyways. You see, even though I was brushing my teeth 3 times a day, flossing after every brushing and meal, and even using mouthwash multiple times of the day. Nothing kept my teeth completely healthy. Keep in mind, I was seeing dentists every 6 months like clock-work and even they never saw anything wrong with my gums or teeth until it was too late. Sure, they knew about my enamel issue since I was 7 years old. It was one of the reasons I was so astute in my oral hygiene. But then one tooth broke and the dentist had to do a root canal. Then another and it needed a filling. It just kept going like that for about a year. It was at that point my gums started to show signs of the disease. I was asked about my family history and when I mentioned my father's issues, the dentist said me getting his condition was the only thing that could explain why this had progressed so fast and without any signs or warnings.

Well, I hope I cleared up those miscommunications with this post.

Eyanosa,

I feel that I have exhausted all possibilities of trying to explain things to you in a realistic manner. I'm sorry but I really cannot offer you anything further. I truly wish you well and hope that you find a dentist who will work with you and who will meet all of your expectations, whatever they may be.

Take care.
Bryanna

Well, I saw the dentist today and he explained a few things.

First off, the pain I was feeling in my lower molar was caused by impacted food. I guess I was not swishing the salt water rinse hard enough because I was afraid of dislodging the clots.

He also pointed out that all of the other pain I have been feeling, the front upper teeth area specifically (as far as pain goes), was discomfort due to unusually fast healing. He said, if he hadn't done the extractions himself, that, based on how much everything has already healed, he would have guessed the extractions were done two weeks ago instead of one. Said to continue doing whatever I am doing to cause such. Also, he pointed out that my gums couldn't look healthier, though he did say we need to get the rest out to ensure they remain healthy.

I had also noticed some bone in a molar and asked about it and he said it was left in there for bone height purposes. Said it was done to avoid bone grafting for future implants, which he stated I was a good candidate for because of bone size. He also mentioned possibly raising the sinus, depending on where they are located.

He scheduled an appointment on Monday to remove the rest of my teeth and also said, judging by the speed at which I am healing, I should be ready for dentures/implants within a month afterwards.