I just saw the holistic dentist who is the one that is most recommended in m area for implants and extractions.

For #11 he said that the outer wall of bone is thin. It might be ok but it might not be for implant. He does not do bone grafts. He said he doesn't like the toxicity of them in the body. I asked about an autologous bone graft, like if they harvested bone from somewhere else in my body. He said that should work but he has no experience with it. He has heard of a colleague who does a plant based grafting material which sounds promising but he had never done it so I would be the Guinea pig. I have no wish to be the guinea pig and e understood. He thought my best bet would be either do nothing for now or find someone to extract it that does both a safe protocol (removing the ligament and 1mm of bone to prevent cavitations) AND does grafting. He had no idea if anyone like that existed in my area.

#7 is by far the clear priority because of the pain. He said that if I can get the pain to quiet down, the tooth can possibly calcify further and do its own natural root canal. He said some fully calcified teeth can be retained and tolerated well by the body. Do you agree with that? He said as long as there is no infection present he said that I could try to wait it out and stop the pain by ozone injections, once a week, over the tooth for 1-2 months. If they don't help or the pain gets worse or signs if infection, I could get the RCT with ozone as a non permanent stopgap and extract it at a later date once I've dealt with my other issues and gotten my implant on #19. He said it may be difficult to have a lower and upper Essix at the same time for implants, and no other replacement options would really work as well.

So right now in frantically looking for ozone dentists to schedule a couple of injections before I fly. I hope this works out. It feels like a gamble and I hate that feeling. But if I do have to get that RCT on 7 I want to know that I did everything possible to prevent it.

Ps my father was a dentist so he must have known the risks for my teeth as a child! I can't really get too into it with him because he gets defensive. He says I could just RCT my front teeth if and when they cause an issue and then splint them together if they get loose.

nukuspot,

I am going to re post some of your thread and answer in bold type. Sometimes it just makes it easier to follow.

<<For #11 he said that the outer wall of bone is thin. It might be ok but it might not be for implant.>>

THE OUTER WALL THAT HE IS REFERRING TO IS CALLED THE BUCCAL PLATE. THIS IS THE AREA OF BONE THAT I SAID LOOKED THIN ACROSS YOUR UPPER ANTERIOR. IN GENERAL THIS AREA OF BONE IS THINNER THAN COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE MOUTH. BUT THE DEGREE OF DENSITY IS DIFFERENT FOR EACH PERSON. IN SOME PEOPLE EXCESSIVE THINNING OF THIS BONE IS DUE TO VITAMIN DEFICIENCIES, AND THEN OTHERS IT IS DUE TO BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA OR ORTHODONTIA BEING DONE TOO QUICKLY AND/OR TOO TRAUMATICALLY.

<< He does not do bone grafts. He said he doesn't like the toxicity of them in the body. I asked about an autologous bone graft, like if they harvested bone from somewhere else in my body. He said that should work but he has no experience with it. He has heard of a colleague who does a plant based grafting material which sounds promising but he had never done it so I would be the Guinea pig. I have no wish to be the guinea pig and e understood.>>

I AM SURPRISED THAT THIS DENTIST, WHO HAS PATIENTS REFERRED TO HIM FOR THEIR ORAL SURGERY NEEDS, DOES NOT DO ANY TYPE OF BONE GRAFTING. ALTHOUGH MOST DENTISTS WILL NOT ADMIT TO THIS... THERE IS ALWAYS SOME DEGREE OF CONCERN ABOUT TOXICITY OR CONTAMINATION ISSUES ANYTIME A GRAFT IS PLACED IRRELEVANT OF WHETHER IT IS HARVESTED FROM THE PATIENT OR IT'S DERIVED FROM A CADAVER OR SYNTHETIC MATERIAL. HERE IS JUST A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF DIFFERENT BONE GRAFTS. IT'S A DENTIST WEBSITE BUT I AM ONLY POSTING IT FOR THE GRAFT INFORMATION HE HAS ON LOTS OF SURGICAL TOPICS.

http://www.riverstoneoralsurgery.com...bone-grafting/

<<He thought my best bet would be either do nothing for now or find someone to extract it that does both a safe protocol (removing the ligament and 1mm of bone to prevent cavitations) AND does grafting. He had no idea if anyone like that existed in my area.>>

I AGREE.

<<#7 is by far the clear priority because of the pain. He said that if I can get the pain to quiet down, the tooth can possibly calcify further and do its own natural root canal. He said some fully calcified teeth can be retained and tolerated well by the body. Do you agree with that?>>

I AGREE TO A POINT. PATHOLOGY AROUND #7 HAS NOT BEEN RULED OUT WHICH MEANS INFECTION COULD STILL BE IMMINENT. CALCIFIED TEETH THAT HAVE NO BACTERIAL PATHOLOGY ARE HANDLED DIFFERENTLY, ALMOST BENIGNLY BY THE IMMUNE SYSTEM..... UNTIL BACTERIA SETS IN.

<< He said as long as there is no infection present he said that I could try to wait it out and stop the pain by ozone injections, once a week, over the tooth for 1-2 months.>>

YOU COULD TRY OZONE INJECTIONS, BUT AGAIN IF THERE IS PATHOLOGY PRESENT, THE INJECTIONS MAY NOT WORK.

<< If they don't help or the pain gets worse or signs if infection, I could get the RCT with ozone as a non permanent stopgap and extract it at a later date once I've dealt with my other issues and gotten my implant on #19.>>

YOU COULD DO THAT BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW IF THE PAIN WILL STOP AND THE TOOTH WILL REMAIN QUIET FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME.

<<He said it may be difficult to have a lower and upper Essix at the same time for implants, and no other replacement options would really work as well.>

SO HE WOULD BE PLACING THE ESSIX RETAINER OVER ALL OF THE TEETH IN THE ARCH TO REPLACE #19 OR #7 OR #11?

<<So right now in frantically looking for ozone dentists to schedule a couple of injections before I fly. I hope this works out. It feels like a gamble and I hate that feeling. But if I do have to get that RCT on 7 I want to know that I did everything possible to prevent it.>>

BE CAREFUL ABOUT SEEKING A DENTIST WHO DOES OZONE INJECTIONS. LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, SOME ARE PERFECTED AT IT WHILE OTHERS ARE NOT. THERE IS REALLY NO WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. I AM GOING TO PM YOU A DENTIST NAME AND NUMBER WHO IS CONSIDERED AN EXPERT IN OZONE THERAPY. HE IS IN NJ BUT MAY BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A REFERENCE TO SOMEONE NEAR YOUR HOME. IT'S WORTH A TRY.

Bryanna

nukuspot,

I forgot your father was a dentist!!!!! OMG is all I can say!! He obviously practiced old school dentistry and if he is still preaching the rct and splinting routine he has yet to look beyond his original antiquated education ... ugh :/

This explains A LOT about your dental health and your moms!! ;(

Bryanna

I tracked down old xrays of #7 and #11 to compare! You had said that you would have wanted to see an old xray of #7 to see how it had changed over time. I contacted my old dentist and they sent me these, taken in 2011.

#7 looks pretty similar to me in the 2011 vs 2015 picture but of course I have no background reading these. Please let me know what you think!

nukuspot,

Thanks for posting these xrays of #7 and 11.

First I have to mention that the angulation used to take these older xrays was not the best and is not the same angulation as the recent xrays. I remember you saying that you have a small mouth. So taking dental xrays is probably not easy to do on you. I just want you to be aware of the angulation because it makes comparing these areas a bit similar to comparing apples to oranges.

IMO even given the angulation issues, both teeth #7 and 11 do seem to have similar radio graphic pathology on both films. However, neither look what would be deemed healthy on either xray. What is commonly seen in similar situations is that over time as the inflammation builds up in the ligament and bone of the areas that are affected, symptoms begin to occur. Add to the chronic inflammation any sort of auto immune issues, stress.... major hormone altering events like pregnancy.... things will change.

How are you feeling today after that ozone injection yesterday?

Bryanna

I felt much the same today as before the ozone injection but totally weirdly---Now my tooth next to #7 (the front tooth, #8) hurts! But this one hurts at the gumline almost like it's a sore. I looked with a light and a mirror and I can see that the gum has receded above #8 in a small upside down V shape. This is precisely where the pain is coming from, I gently rubbed the gum with a toothbrush. I look and I now see that the gum is receded on #7 as well, but that recession seems to follow the natural curve of the tooth, not the v shape of #8.

Am I just finding these things that may have always been there or could this be where the pain is coming from? Or at least this new pain on #8?

I have long had a gum recession issue. But I never had any pockets, probing depths were always 1-3 in recent years plus the receded areas never gave constant pain, they always just gave a sharp pain when eating sweet things, so I never chewed chocolate or anything that was sweet that could stick to those receded areas. Even sweet fruit hurt them, but it is always just a flash of pain that goes away when the sweet thing was rinsed away with water.

Can receded gums cause constant pain? If so, why just this area? I have other areas that are much more receded than these.

Maybe I am just grasping for straws here. Trying to find any reason I don't need RCT.

nukuspot,

You felt weirdly?? You mean spacey? Do you still feel that way?

Looking again at your panoramic xray, you do have generalized bone loss throughout your dentition and it's a bit severe for a person of your age. This degree of bone loss can occur for several reasons.... ortho done too aggressively .... poor oral hygiene or aggressive oral hygiene during and/or after ortho .... clenching/grinding habit .... mineral/vitamin deficiency.... etc. Frequently when this happens in a young person, the gums will tend to slowly but progressively recede. So when the pocket depths are measured, the numbers will be in the "normal" range of 0-3 mm because of the shrinkage of the gum tissue. However, as the tissue recedes more root structure is exposed which is why you will get that generalized sensitivity to temperature or to sweet when you eat it. The anterior teeth that are blunted due to root resorption will often have the most recession and sometimes be the most troublesome because those teeth are in a fragile state as a good part of their root structure is gone. So they are constantly trying to hang in there. Literally :/

There are nutritional supplements, even some bio identical hormones you can take to encourage the bone to become healthier. It is best to work with a Nutritionist or other expert for the proper combinations, dosages, and knowledge of quality brands. Some examples of the supps would be Vitamin D3, Boron, Calcium D-Glucarate, Magnesium, Vitamin K2, and Vitamin C. The combination, dosage, quality and source of ingredients will make a huge difference in how the body metabolizes them.

The only reason someone would recommend rct on any of your blunted root anterior teeth is because the only other option is to extract them. RCT in any of them does not solve the anatomical problem and it does not prevent the resorption problem from progressing. It also exposes you to toxic disinfectants and rc filling material. It's a catch 22 situation, especially at this time of your life as you are not mentally prepared to lose your front teeth. I mean .... who is?! The dentist does not want you to be in pain. So he only knows to remove the immediate source of your pain is to remove the remnants of nerve tissue inside the tip of the large canal that is not calcified. After that, no one can predict the timeline of events that may occur after the rct is done.

How is your mouth feeling today? Any changes, good or other?

Bryanna





QUOTE=nukuspot;1164175]I felt much the same today as before the ozone injection but totally weirdly---Now my tooth next to #7 (the front tooth, #8) hurts! But this one hurts at the gumline almost like it's a sore. I looked with a light and a mirror and I can see that the gum has receded above #8 in a small upside down V shape. This is precisely where the pain is coming from, I gently rubbed the gum with a toothbrush. I look and I now see that the gum is receded on #7 as well, but that recession seems to follow the natural curve of the tooth, not the v shape of #8.

Am I just finding these things that may have always been there or could this be where the pain is coming from? Or at least this new pain on #8?

I have long had a gum recession issue. But I never had any pockets, probing depths were always 1-3 in recent years plus the receded areas never gave constant pain, they always just gave a sharp pain when eating sweet things, so I never chewed chocolate or anything that was sweet that could stick to those receded areas. Even sweet fruit hurt them, but it is always just a flash of pain that goes away when the sweet thing was rinsed away with water.

Can receded gums cause constant pain? If so, why just this area? I have other areas that are much more receded than these.

Maybe I am just grasping for straws here. Trying to find any reason I don't need RCT.[/QUOTE]

Oh I'm sorry to be misunderstood! No I didn't feel weird or spacey, I felt weird because my front tooth hurt and that was new and weird and frustrating.

I felt pretty normal after the ozone. I still feel fine, it seems to have not hanged much of anything with that first injection. But he gave me the lowest therapeutic dose. I think next week I will have more.

I take a lot of the supplements you mention already from Thorne. I like that brand.

I started using a sensitive toothpaste which I never do usually because the most "natural" one I can find is Toms and it has SLS...But I really need to try to take my overall pain level down as much as I can so I can function and think and make decisions. I also am thinking maybe I can put MI paste (again not something I usually use) on the tooth necks with the exposed areas due to recession to help with the sensitivity. What do you think about that?

Last night I had such a hard time eating because of my general teeth pain (especially #7) that I decided to do the RCT next week with ozone just to get out of pain temporarily as I look for a good OS who can extract and do zirconia implants AND bone grafts.

But now I wake up this morning and I feel less pain so of course now I don't want to do the RCT again and just want to tough it out.

I imagine the generalized bone loss was from the aggressive braces. But I also was vegan from age 15-25. I am sure I had deficiency of multiple nutrients during the time I needed it the most. My nutrition now is pretty perfect I think but the damage may have already been done in the formative years. I am not saying vegan diets are bad, I'm just saying that they have to be done with care and planning and supplements. I did none of those as a teen. I was vegan from an animal rights perspective so nutrition was not a huge focus.