again I am SO sorry to hijack the thread. If someone could move my posts to their own thread I would be grateful!

the pain is definitely in the gum area. When I floss between the two teeth (#7 and the canine) it REALLY hurts. Also when I brush the gum area. Should I temporarily stop flossing that tooth? I also stopped the waterpik about a week ago just in case it was exacerbating it.

Nukuspot,

I am going to re post some of your thread and will reply in bold type. I am going to try to explain to you the reason why you are being told the things you are.

<<The dentist who would pull it and do the oral surgery says that I should hold on to both this tooth and #11 as long as I can. They both do not have the best bone for an implant. #11 especially because of the prior surgeries, but #7 too because the roots are so blunted it did not stimulate great bone growth. He says that an implant in that space might work---But it might fail either sooner or later and in that case, I am stuck.>>

THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE BEING TOLD TO HANG ON TO THESE TEETH IS BECAUSE THE OPTIONS TO REPLACE THEM ARE NOT IDEAL AND YOU ARE GIVING THE IMPRESSION (UNDERSTANDABLY) THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO REMOVE THESE TEETH AND DEAL WITH REPLACEMENT ISSUES AT THIS TIME. AT THE SAME TIME, YOU GIVE THE DISTINCT IMPRESSION (UNDERSTANDABLY) THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT KEEPING THESE TEETH AS YOU KNOW THEY CAN AFFECT YOUR OVERALL HEALTH AND YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH MORE WIDESPREAD PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD. I AGREE THAT DENTAL IMPLANTS IN EITHER 7 OR 11 AREA ARE VERY RISKY AND FOR THE REASONS THAT HE GAVE TO YOU.

<< He says I cannot get a bridge because of the blunted roots next to both of these teeth, and both he and I agree that a removable tooth would be a very poor outcome for a 35 year old, especially with it having to put pressure on the blunted root teeth adjacent.>>

I AGREE THAT YOUR ANTERIOR TEETH ARE NOT RESOURCEFUL ANCHORS FOR A BRIDGE DUE TO THE ROOT RESORPTION. ALSO DRILLING INTO THOSE ANTERIOR TEETH TO PUT CROWNS ON THEM CAN CAUSE ENOUGH TRAUMA TO INFLAME THE PULP AND CAUSE INFECTION. REGARDING A REMOVABLE APPLIANCE, NO THOSE ANTERIOR TEETH ARE NOT IDEAL AS ANCHOR TEETH FOR THAT APPLIANCE EITHER. BUT IN ALL HONESTY THIS OPTION IS NOT BEING RECOMMENDED BECAUSE YOU FEEL STRONGLY THAT YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO HAVE IT. AGAIN, COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE. BUT WHAT IF BOTH 7 AND 11 WERE TO ABSCESS, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

<<It is not a great situation. He advised me to not extract unless pathology was shown on the xray. I mentioned the bump on the xray and he said that that did not make him think of infection. He said that he feels it is a thickened periodontal ligament from years of biting on a tooth that is so blunted and cannot take the pressure.>>

THE PERIODONTAL LIGAMENT IS INFLAMED AND YOU CAN TRACE THE INFLAMMATION FROM THE SMALL VISIBLE CANAL, OUT THE APEX AND DOWN ALONG THE DISTAL SIDE OF THE ROOT TO THE ALVEOLAR CREST. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE PAIN IN YOUR GUM ON THAT TOOTH IN BETWEEN IT AND THE CANINE. THE LIGAMENT IS ATTACHED TO THE ROOT SURFACE OF THE TOOTH. IT IS THE LAYER BETWEEN THE TOOTH AND THE BONE. INFLAMMATION IS A DEFENSE MECHANISM WHEN THERE ARE MANY NEUTROPHILS PRESENT. NEUTROPHILS ARE WHITE BLOOD CELLS. THESE ARE BLOOD CELLS THAT PROTECT THE BODY AGAINST INFECTION. THEY ARE ALSO THE FIRST CELLS THAT CONGREGATE AT THE SITE OF INFECTION. SO THERE MAY NOT MAY NOT BE INFECTIOUS BACTERIA PRESENT AT THIS TIME.

<<He looked at both the recent and the 2011 xray and said that he sees no change so he is not thinking it is a bacterial cause. This is most likely why the ozone did not work, because ozone would have been effective against bacteria but not nerve pain. He said the same as you, inflamed nerve.>>

BUT THERE IS CHANGE. YOU RECENTLY HAD SUDDEN ONSET OF PAIN THAT HAS NOT GONE AWAY. OZONE CANNOT REACH INSIDE OF THE TOOTH TO REDUCE THE INFLAMMATION. IT OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAVE MUCH AFFECT ON THE INFLAMED LIGAMENT AND PERHAPS THAT'S BECAUSE THE INFLAMMATION IS STEMMING FROM THE INFLAMED NERVE TISSUE INSIDE THE TOOTH. DOING THE RC WITH OZONE MAY OR MAY NOT BRING YOU SOME TEMPORARY RELIEF. TEMPORARY BEING THE KEY WORD. YOU CERTAINLY CANNOT GO ON WITH THIS PAIN.

<<Both dentists have advised me to try whatever I can to see if I can get it to calm down (the nerve). If I cannot, the one dentist advised doing the root canal with ozone. He said that he does not usually advise them but it might be the best choice in my situation if I could not live with the tooth anymore. He also said interestingly that since the tooth is so calcified, the issue of dentinal tubules harboring bacteria might not be an issue, because my body has effectively sealed the tubules off.>>

BECAUSE THE DENTIN TUBULES ARE MICROSCOPIC, NO ONE CAN TELL YOU IF THEY ARE CALCIFIED OR NOT. EVEN IF THEY OR SOME OF THEM ARE, YOU STILL HAVE TO REMEMBER THE ISSUES WITH RETAINING A NON VITAL ROOT CANALED TOOTH.

<<My general dentist who probably hates root canals as much as you do, has said that he feels that I should try 100% everything I can to settle the nerve. Being that there is no pathology on the xray, I could wait indefinitely and work on it to heal.>>

IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO THE RC OR EXTRACTION, THEN I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN TRY TO RELIEVE THE INFLAMMATION. ANYTHING HOMEOPATHICALLY WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE CONSISTENTLY AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE EXACT RIGHT FORMULAS. I DISAGREE ABOUT THE INDEFINITE COMMENT.

<< I leave on my trip with my bottles of antinflammatory supplements in 2 days. I will be gone for 2 weeks. When I get back I have an appointment with him for an occlusal adjustment, he will see if I have any points of heavy contact on that tooth and gently file it down. He seems to think that will help along with getting a lower guard, and not using my upper night guard.>>

THIS MAY HELP TEMPORARILY.

<<I am happy to have a plan but I am concerned I will not be able to live with the pain this long. I will just have to take one day at a time and see how it goes. The interesting thing was that it was doing a little better the day before my last ozone injection and now it's so bad again especially the burning and gum pain. He says that ozone could not have exacerbated the pain. So I guess it was a coincidence. I can only hope it can get back to that point it was at before the ozone again during my trip. Right now it is about a 5 on a 1-10 pain scale. I think if if gets higher I will have to call it quits with trying to save this tooth. But if I can get it back to even a 4 or a 3, I can live with it for awhile longer.>>

THE OZONE INJECTION COULD HAVE IRRITATED THE ALREADY INFLAMED LIGAMENT SIMPLY BECAUSE THE LIGAMENT IS TENDER TO BEGIN WITH AND COULD BE MORE INFLAMED THAN ANYONE REALIZES. I HOPE THE PAIN DOES SUBSIDE WHILE YOU ARE AWAY... I REALLY DO!!

<<I am stopping the Toms sensitivity toothpaste and have gone back to my normal toothpaste (Coral White). I will try just coconut oil too.>>

GOOD IDEA.

Thank you for explaining why my gums hurt! This is so uncomfortable and I could not understand it. You totally helped me understand why it feels all in the gum area.

The dentists I saw are pretty much the most holistic of all the options in about a 200 mile radius of my area. So I was pretty surprised when the one (who I think has about 1/4 his practice as root canal extractions) said that of all my options, root canal with ozone might be the best, albeit temporary option I have if the pain will not spontaneously cease by either reversing the inflammation or the natural death of the nerve.

To answer your question, if I did get an abscess, I would extract that one and have to only hope an implant would be successful. Without it, I might have to adjust to life with a missing front tooth. It would be devastating.

So for right now, my only choice open to me is between keeping on like this and getting the root canal with ozone.

So that is why I am living in pain. I told my husband today I think that 99 out of 100 people would have had the root canal weeks ago. He agreed. I just am clinging to any hope that it will just go away at this point.

My dentist really thinks that the occulsal adjustment is going to reduce the pressure on that tooth and stop the pain. However, that is not for over 2 weeks since I am going away and they couldn't even get me in until 4 days after I return for the adjustment. (I am going to call on Monday and beg for an earlier appointment.)

I might have to rely on Motrin while I am away if this gets worse. So far I have only taken my herbal supplements. I am trying to save Motrin for worst case scenario time.

If the adjustment in 2.5 weeks doesn't help, and it's not at all improving, I am going to have to get the root canal. I still am not at peace with that decision yet but in a few more weeks of pain, I think I will be.

This totally sucks!!!

also I am starting to feel pain around my front tooth as well! In the gum. I guess the inflammation is spreading or it's referred pain? Both #7 and my front tooth recently had visible gum recession (before all this pain started) but I have been told that the gum recession would not create constant pain so I have to assume it is just coincidence. I also thought the ozone made it worse too, but again, possible coincidence.

The feeling of anything in my mouth, hot, cold, soft, hard, anything seems to make it ache more. Even if I try to chew only on my back molars. I still cannot chew on the other side because of the extraction site, it's healed now but it's still very hard to chew due to tender gums and where it is located.

That burning is serious and hard to get rid of... You need to find a good OS to extract it ASAP...

Thank you for your concern, Cleo. But I had a general dentist, an endodontist and a dentist who does OS look at it. Both dentists recommended waiting on the root canal if I could stand the pain. The endo recommended root canal to end the pain but stated that he saw no pathology that meant root canal needed to be imminent, it was just for pain relief.

For the reasons I mentioned earlier, I am not planning to extract this tooth. My choice is between root canal and living with the tooth.

Your burning pain symptoms sound to far advanced for a root canal to even be considered. You do NOT want this to become permanent... this is way worse than living with a missing tooth!

I am a little worried now as my dentist basically said to me to just leave it and 'see how it goes', as in until the infection turns into something more I shouldn't mess with it as I dont have any pain. I am not sure what to think. I also need an operation in hospital if I were to have the tooth removed as he said it is very close to a nerve and is a bit risky to be done in the dental office. Thoughts?

Nukuspot,

I am going to re post some of your thread and answer in bold type. I just want to mention...... I feel awful that you are going through this AND the timing of it with trying to get things together for your trip is adding so much more stress. I feel for you, I really do. I think I've come to know you well enough to believe that you want to gather all the information that you can and this is why you came here and why you stay here. So I am going to keep giving you the information to help you understand things from the "dental" perspective.

<<The dentists I saw are pretty much the most holistic of all the options in about a 200 mile radius of my area. So I was pretty surprised when the one (who I think has about 1/4 his practice as root canal extractions) said that of all my options, root canal with ozone might be the best, albeit temporary option I have if the pain will not spontaneously cease by either reversing the inflammation or the natural death of the nerve.>>

HE MAY VERY WELL BE VERY MUCH INTO HOLISTIC DENTISTRY. WHICH IS GREAT! BUT EVEN A HOLISTIC DENTIST WILL RECOMMEND ROOT CANAL TO A PATIENT WHO BASICALLY LEAVES THEM NO CHOICE. MEANING YOU ARE ADAMANT ABOUT NOT REMOVING #7 IN SPITE OF THE DIAGNOSIS AND IN SPITE OF THE INTENSITY OF THE SYMPTOMS. IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE, AND FOR ALL THE REASONS YOU MENTION, THAT YOU DO NOT WANT THIS TOOTH REMOVED. IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THE REMOVAL OF THIS TOOTH IS INEVITABLE, YOUR DENTISTS ARE TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU ON WHAT YOU WILL ALLOW THEM TO DO. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE WILLING TO GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER TEMPORARY MEASURE YOU DECIDE TO TAKE.

<<To answer your question, if I did get an abscess, I would extract that one and have to only hope an implant would be successful. Without it, I might have to adjust to life with a missing front tooth. It would be devastating.>>

THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE WAY TO KNOW THAT A DENTAL IMPLANT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL OR NOT IN THAT AREA OF BONE UNTIL THE BONE WAS EXPLORED AT THE TIME OF THE EXTRACTION. A PRE OP 3D DENTAL SCAN MAY ALSO BE HELPFUL AT SHOWING THE DEPTH AND DENSITY OF THAT BONE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PROGRESSION OF THE INFLAMMATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF BACTERIA WILL CAUSE THE INTEGRITY OF THE BONE TO BREAK DOWN. THIS OCCURRENCE WOULD FURTHER REDUCE WHATEVER CHANCE THERE IS FOR THE IMPLANTATION OF THE DENTAL IMPLANT. YOUR DENTISTS SHOULD BE INFORMING YOU ABOUT THAT BUT THEY ARE PROBABLY HESITANT, LIKE I AM, TO ADD THAT CONCERN TO EVERYTHING ELSE GOING ON.

<<So for right now, my only choice open to me is between keeping on like this and getting the root canal with ozone.>>

THIS IS YOUR CHOICE TO MAKE AND EVERY DENTIST IS LEAVING THE DECISION UP TO YOU.

<<So that is why I am living in pain. I told my husband today I think that 99 out of 100 people would have had the root canal weeks ago. He agreed. I just am clinging to any hope that it will just go away at this point.>>

THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE HAD THE ROOT CANAL WOULD BE THOSE WHOSE DENTISTS SOLD THEM ON IT WITHOUT DISCUSSION. OTHER DENTISTS WOULD HAVE SAID THIS TOOTH IS COMPROMISED IN SEVERAL WAYS, TAKE IT OUT AND PUT IN AN IMPLANT...... WITHOUT MUCH OR ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE BONE.

<<My dentist really thinks that the occulsal adjustment is going to reduce the pressure on that tooth and stop the pain. However, that is not for over 2 weeks since I am going away and they couldn't even get me in until 4 days after I return for the adjustment. (I am going to call on Monday and beg for an earlier appointment.)>>

YOUR DENTIST IS MOST LIKELY PUTTING OFF THE OCCLUSAL ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE TOUCHING TOOTH #7 WITH A DRILL WHILE THE LIGAMENT IS INFLAMED IS NOT GOING TO BE VERY COMFORTABLE AND THE MAGNITUDE OF THE VIBRATION FROM THE DRILL CAN CAUSE FURTHER TRAUMA TO AN ALREADY INFLAMED TOOTH. HE IS NOT LOOKING TO MAKE THINGS WORSE AND IS WILLING TO LET YOU RIDE THIS SITUATION OUT AS LONG AS YOU CAN. IF THE TOOTH CALMS DOWN IN THE NEXT 2 WEEKS, HE MAY TRY TO ADJUST IT THEN. BUT REMEMBER, IF THE NERVES AND LIGAMENT DIE, THE PAIN MAY SUBSIDE MAKING YOU THINK THE TOOTH HAS GOTTEN BETTER. SO AN XRAY OF THIS TOOTH SHOULD BE TAKEN PRIOR TO ADJUSTING THE OCCLUSION TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY OBVIOUS RADIO GRAPHIC CHANGES.

<<I might have to rely on Motrin while I am away if this gets worse. So far I have only taken my herbal supplements. I am trying to save Motrin for worst case scenario time.>>

MOTRIN MAY BRING SOME RELIEF. BUT KEEP IN MIND ANTI INFLAMMATORY DRUGS CAN NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE KIDNEYS AFTER TAKING LARGE DOSES AND/OR LONG TERM USE.

<<If the adjustment in 2.5 weeks doesn't help, and it's not at all improving, I am going to have to get the root canal. I still am not at peace with that decision yet but in a few more weeks of pain, I think I will be.>>

YOU KNOW THE RC IS AT BEST ONLY A TEMPORARY MEASURE. BUT IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO MAKE AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU FEEL YOU WANT TO DO, THEN DO IT.

<<This totally sucks!!>>

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!! I PRAY YOU GET SOME RELIEF AND SOME PEACE WHILE YOU ARE AWAY WITH YOUR FAMILY.