Hi,

I'm new to this forum and happened to find it while searching on the internet for answers to my problem.

I had a 2nd molar upper right extraction done on 8/19 by an OS (my 3rd molar wisdom was extracted over 15 years ago). There were no complications, but I bled for almost the entire day. This tooth was very decayed (also crowned), and the back gum area had been intermittently very sore for many years. I also have a somewhat-decayed tooth (also crowned)
next to the extracted one that has given me some issues.

My question: Prior to the extraction and even now, I have some swelling and pressure that begins at my jaw and goes all the way to the top of my cheek. It hurts to smile and I talk like I have a mouthful of mush. I feel a VERY sore little lump back in that area. I am worried about this.

I went back to see the OS this week and he seemed unconcerned, but gave me an Rx for CLEOCIN (I did not fill it). He overcharged me and without getting into details, I do not want to go back to him. I saw another general dentist that same day and she said I do not have dry socket, but there appears to be some real inflammation around the extraction site. She gave me an Rx for Penicillin VK 500 mg which I have been taking for 2 days now. I do not notice any real improvement, but it's not getting worse.

This will be my 3rd course of antibiotics in a months time. I was previously taking Amoxicillin 500 mg. I am a holistic health advocate and hate taking these Rxs. I just want to know if this sounds normal or if it's something I should be concerned about. I have been dealing with these dental issues for too long and just want some relief.

Please help - thank you.

Hi bchristine,

Welcome to Neurotalk and our dental forum

We have a commonality in that I too am a holistic (and nutritional) health advocate. So I do understand where you are coming from.

If you are open to answering a few questions, that may be helpful. These are not intended to be judgmental, they are basic questions that help give a history and help tell the story. I will also answer your questions in bold type as it makes it easier to follow.

1) Did you or do you smoke, anything?
2) Do you have regular dental care or has it been awhile since you have been to the dentist? What is the health of your gums?
3) The upper right molar extracted tooth #2, had it been root canaled?
4) Do you know if the oral surgeon thoroughly debrided the extraction site after he removed the tooth? You would know this was done by the amount of scraping that was done and the time it took to do that.
5) Did the OS place a bone graft in the site?
6) Did the OS mention anything about the tooth being in close proximity to your sinus and/or did he check for a sinus perforation?
7) Tooth #3, the first molar, is that root canaled? Did the OS comment on the decay in this tooth?
8) The gum area behind #2 that was sore, had that area ever swelled up?
9) Do you recall ever having any drainage seep from around the circumference of #2 and/or #3?
10) Have you had or do you have any sinus issues, congestion, drainage, post nasal drip, pain in sinus areas on your upper right side?
11) Do you have other teeth that are root canaled and/or decayed?

<<My question: Prior to the extraction and even now, I have some swelling and pressure that begins at my jaw and goes all the way to the top of my cheek. It hurts to smile and I talk like I have a mouthful of mush. I feel a VERY sore little lump back in that area. I am worried about this.>>

I ASSUME YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE RIGHT SIDE, CORRECT?
DOES THE SWELLING AND PRESSURE BEGIN AT YOUR LOWER JAW OR THE TMJ AREA (NEAR YOUR EAR) AND RADIATE UP TO THE TOP OF YOUR CHEEK?
IS THE SWELLING VISIBLE ON THE INSIDE AND/OR OUTSIDE OF THE FACE?
THE PAIN WHEN YOU SMILE INDICATES THERE IS TISSUE INFLAMMATION AND POSSIBLE MUSCLE INFLAMMATION AS WELL. WAS THIS OCCURRING PRIOR TO THE EXTRACTION OF #2?

<<I went back to see the OS this week and he seemed unconcerned, but gave me an Rx for CLEOCIN (I did not fill it). He overcharged me and without getting into details, I do not want to go back to him.>>

YOU MAY NEED TO FIND ANOTHER ORAL SURGEON TO EVALUATE THIS AS A GENERAL DENTIST GENERALLY WOULD NOT BE IDEAL AT DIAGNOSING OR TREATING IT. ARE YOU OPEN TO SEEING A BIOLOGICAL DENTIST?? ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT REALM OF DENTISTRY?

<< I saw another general dentist that same day and she said I do not have dry socket, but there appears to be some real inflammation around the extraction site. She gave me an Rx for Penicillin VK 500 mg which I have been taking for 2 days now. I do not notice any real improvement, but it's not getting worse. >>

ANY OTHER DENTIST GETTING INVOLVED WITH THIS CASE WILL NEED TO HAVE A RADIO GRAPHIC HISTORY OF THIS TOOTH AS WELL AS THE REST OF THAT QUADRANT. THEY WILL NEED TO HAVE THE SURGICAL REPORT FROM THE OS WHO REMOVED THE TOOTH TO TELL THEM IF THE SITE WAS THOROUGHLY DEBRIDED. THEY SHOULD ALSO TAKE NEW XRAYS OF THAT QUADRANT TO 1) HELP EVALUATE THE HEALTH OF THE BONE, 2) TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY RETAINED TOOTH FRAGMENTS OR BONY SPICULES, AND 3) TO CHECK FOR A SINUS COMMUNICATION.

<<This will be my 3rd course of antibiotics in a months time. I was previously taking Amoxicillin 500 mg. >>

I ASSUME THAT YOU KNOW THE SYSTEMIC REPERCUSSIONS OF TAKING ANTIBIOTICS AND THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE USED CARELESSLY AND UNFORTUNATELY DOCTORS AND DENTISTS GIVE THEM OUT LIKE CANDY.
ARE YOU TAKING PROBIOTICS? IF SO, COULD YOU SHARE WITH US WHAT YOU ARE TAKING?

ORAL ANTIBIOTICS FOR DENTAL INFECTIONS ARE HELPFUL SO LONG AS THE SOURCE OF THE INFECTION IS REMOVED. THE TOOTH WAS THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF INFECTION. HOWEVER, IF THE PERIODONTAL LIGAMENT WAS NOT REMOVED AND/OR THERE IS STILL DISEASED TISSUE AND BONE RESIDING IN THAT AREA, THEN THESE TOO ARE STILL SOURCES OF THE INFECTION STILL PRESENT. ALSO IF THE SPECIES OF ANTIBIOTICS IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THE TYPE OF BACTERIAL INFECTION, IT WILL NOT BE USEFUL AT KILLING IT. BUT THE MEDS WILL KILL THE GOOD BACTERIA NONE THE LESS.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS AREA PROPERLY DIAGNOSED AND IF NECESSARY, HAVE AN OS OPEN THE SITE, DEBRIDE IT THOROUGHLY AND TAKE SAMPLES OF BACTERIA THAT CAN BE SENT TO AN ORAL PATHOLOGIST FOR BIOPSY AND CULTURE. BIOLOGICAL DENTISTS ARE MORE INCLINED TO TAKE THIS APPROACH COMPARED TO CONVENTIONAL DENTISTS... FYI.

<< I am a holistic health advocate and hate taking these Rxs. I just want to know if this sounds normal or if it's something I should be concerned about. I have been dealing with these dental issues for too long and just want some relief. >>

OKAY SO AGAIN YOU KNOW THE PITFALLS OF TAKING ANTIBIOTICS AND YOU CAN SEE THAT NOT ONLY AREN'T THEY HELPING BUT YOUR ORIGINAL SYMPTOMS ARE STILL PRESENT. YOUR SYMPTOMS ARE "TYPICAL" OF AN INFECTION. THEY ARE NOT "HEALTHY NORMAL" POST OP HEALING OF A TOOTH EXTRACTION.

THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT YOU HAVE A FEW THINGS GOING ON IN THAT QUADRANT THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE LONGEVITY OF YOUR SYMPTOMS AND COULD BE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS AS TO WHY THE AREA IS NOT HEALING WELL.

1) THE TOOTH DECAY WAS A FACTOR. IF THE TOOTH (AND/OR ADJACENT TOOTH #3) WAS ROOT CANALED, THAT TOO WOULD BE A FACTOR.

2) THE REMOVAL OF YOUR WISDOM TOOTH MAY HAVE BEEN INCOMPLETE WHICH COULD BE A FACTOR AS TO WHY YOU HAD INTERMITTENT SWELLING BEHIND TOOTH #2.

3) THE REMOVAL OF TOOTH #2 MAY HAVE BEEN INCOMPLETE.

4) THERE COULD BE A SINUS INVOLVEMENT THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO INFECTION AND INFLAMMATION.

5) YOU COULD HAVE OTHER DENTAL PROBLEMS LIKE GUM DISEASE FOR EXAMPLE WHICH CAUSE A GENERALIZED BACTERIAL INFECTION.

6) OUR SYSTEMIC, MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL HEALTH, AUTO IMMUNE DISORDERS, DIGESTIVE ISSUES, ETC ARE ALL KEY FACTORS IN HOW OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM HANDLES INFECTION, INFLAMMATION AND HEALING.

I am happy to try and help you. So any information you can provide would be welcome. Also, if you feel comfortable, you can attach the xrays of that quadrant to a post on this forum.

Thanks so much for your response Bryanna. In answer to your questions:

1) I am a former light smoker - clean 15+ years now

2) I have had regular dental care my whole life; the past 20+ years by the same dentist, who I am placing some of the blame on for the predicament I'm in ... have been complaining about my upper right for over 5 years. He just does a deep cleaning and says I always "heal well". Never any mention of decayed teeth under crowns ....

3) I have no root-canaled teeth.

4) I do not know if debridement was done on this extraction - he was in/out of my mouth very quickly, and I never remember anything like that done

5-6) No

7) Tooth# 3/1st molar is not RC; however I have been told there is some decay; minimal bone loss on the side.

8) That area has had intermittent soreness for many years, but never like this. My bit has been off/sore as well - although this could be due to swelling in the gums?

9) No drainage that I'm aware of.

10) I have never had any sinus issues that I'm aware of.

11) No RC teeth ... just some decay as mentioned above.

From your question - see my answer following .....
I ASSUME YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE RIGHT SIDE, CORRECT? Yes.
DOES THE SWELLING AND PRESSURE BEGIN AT YOUR LOWER JAW OR THE TMJ AREA (NEAR YOUR EAR) AND RADIATE UP TO THE TOP OF YOUR CHEEK? Not to my ear really no; more from my jaw to up my cheek.
IS THE SWELLING VISIBLE ON THE INSIDE AND/OR OUTSIDE OF THE FACE? Not really that visible to others, but I see it.
THE PAIN WHEN YOU SMILE INDICATES THERE IS TISSUE INFLAMMATION AND POSSIBLE MUSCLE INFLAMMATION AS WELL. WAS THIS OCCURRING PRIOR TO THE EXTRACTION OF #2? The pain is pretty minimal when I smile atm. I did not have this prior to the extraction, but did have similar and mild jaw/facial pressure. Also want to mention I had gum-pocket surgery in 12/2013 in this area - something else my dentist thought would help, I guess. It seems like it only aggravated things, and I feel is was unnecessary.

I am familiar with Bio-dentists and went to see one over 50 miles away prior to this extraction. I like what he stands for, but was not that impressed. He was the one who initially told me I needed to have both Tooth# 2 & 3 extracted and get implants ... and it would have to be done by his OS friend down the street. He dropped a bomb on me that day; also telling me about the mercury amalgams above these crowns. I was quite upset. Additionally, he was very shaky when in my mouth. I don't know if I'd want to go back to him. There is a bio-dentist a few miles away from me who I've also seen, but when I saw him a few weeks ago (prior to the extraction) he said I'd have to go somewhere else b/c he didn't do extractions, RCs, etc. He gave me the name of a conventional endodontist who does RCs. I DON'T WANT A RC DONE.

To sum things up, I certainly know the dangers of antibiotics (and all drugs for that matter); but I have been SO desperate for help over the past few months. I have been taking double doses of my probiotics (2-3 hours separately from the antibiotic); they are quality - Dr. Joseph Mercola's brand (he's my hero). I have seen about 7 different dentists/OS within the past 1.5 months just to get opinions on everything. I honestly don't know who to trust anymore. Besides that I have been out of work, have no income (divorced) and no dental insurance. Living off my savings and CC's. It has been x-difficult to say the least .... Can you recommend someone in my area? My zip is 19805 - Wilmington, DE - Philadelphia.

I (think) I attached 3 files - these x-rays were done the end of July when I went to an emergency dentist due to pain/soreness - prior to the extraction.

I will appreciate any help you can give me. This has been exhausting and I need to get back to some kind of life

Attached Thumbnails

     

Hi bchristine,

Thank you for posting the xrays. Yes, these xrays combined with your statements tell a pretty clear story of at least some of the dental issues in that quadrant.

You mentioned that the one dentist you saw upset you by informing you of what he found. I assume you want me to tell you what I see on your xrays or you would not have posted them. I hope that is correct as my intention is not to upset you.

Some biological dentists do not perform oral surgery. Those that do, tend to have formal education and training in oral surgery beyond their conventional dental education. They generally understand the significance of less traumatic surgery to help preserve the integrity of the jaw bone but at the same time they debride the surgical site thoroughly even if that means removing diseased bone. Conventional dentists are taught all of those things too, but they don't necessarily follow them with every patient. I know that doesn't make sense.... to me either :/ Biological dentists are not in favor of root canal therapy as they are aware of the chronic infection and systemic consequences of retaining infected non vital teeth. However, if they feel that a patient is most concerned about retaining their tooth and then the only other thing they can offer is rct. But rct would not be their preferred choice, in most bio practices.

<<2) I have had regular dental care my whole life; the past 20+ years by the same dentist, who I am placing some of the blame on for the predicament I'm in ... have been complaining about my upper right for over 5 years. He just does a deep cleaning and says I always "heal well". Never any mention of decayed teeth under crowns ....>>

DID THIS DENTIST DO THE CROWN WORK FOR YOU?
DID HE TAKE ROUTINE XRAYS OF YOUR TEETH? OR DID YOU REFUSE XRAYS?
THE DEEP CLEANING ON THE DISTAL (BACK) OF TOOTH #2 WAS A TRUE TEMPORARY MEASURE AT THE VERY MOST AS IT CANNOT ALTER THE BACTERIAL STATUS FROM THE DECAY. THIS DECAY MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE SHOWED UP ON XRAYS LONG BEFORE NOW.

<<4) I do not know if debridement was done on this extraction - he was in/out of my mouth very quickly, and I never remember anything like that done>>

A SURGICAL DEBRIDEMENT REQUIRES A LOT OF SCRAPING. IT IS NOT PAINFUL BUT YOU WOULD KNOW IT WAS BEING DONE. IT USUALLY TAKES A MINIMUM OF 15-20 MINUTES, SOMETIMES LONGER.

<<7) Tooth# 3/1st molar is not RC; however I have been told there is some decay; minimal bone loss on the side.>>

YES, #3 IS DECAYED UNDERNEATH THE CROWN AND THERE APPEARS TO BE RADIO GRAPHIC PATHOLOGY ON THE MESIAL (FRONT) ROOT. THIS TOOTH IS IN SIMILAR SHAPE TO TOOTH #2.

<<8) That area has had intermittent soreness for many years, but never like this. My bit has been off/sore as well - although this could be due to swelling in the gums?>>

THIS TOOTH HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN DECAYING FOR YEARS. THE BACTERIA FROM THE DECAY WAS PROLIFERATING BEYOND THE TOOTH AND THE ACCUMULATION OF BACTERIA AND BUILD UP OF GRANULOMA TISSUE IS WHAT HE WAS SCRAPING OUT. BUT IT WAS INEVITABLE THAT THE DECAY WOULD KEEP SPREADING.

<<9) No drainage that I'm aware of.>>

HOW ABOUT CONGESTION OR STUFFINESS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR NOSE? OR TENDERNESS UNDER OR ABOVE THE CHEEKBONE?

<<Also want to mention I had gum-pocket surgery in 12/2013 in this area - something else my dentist thought would help, I guess. It seems like it only aggravated things, and I feel is was unnecessary.>>

DID THAT DENTIST TAKE XRAYS BEFORE HE DID THE PERIO SURGERY? THE DECAY ON THE MOLARS HAS BEEN THERE AND PROGRESSING FOR A LONG TIME. OTHER THAN REMOVING THE TOOTH, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WAS GOING TO PREVENT THE PROLIFERATION OF BACTERIA AS IT WAS DECAYING THE TOOTH SIGNIFICANTLY.

<<Can you recommend someone in my area? My zip is 19805 - Wilmington, DE - Philadelphia.>

I CAN RECOMMEND A BIOLOGICAL DENTIST IN KING OF PRUSSIA, PA. HIS OFFICE IS NEAR THE KOP MALL. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA AT ALL? IF YOU ARE INTERESTED I CAN PM HIS NAME TO YOU.

Thank you Bryanna.

No, your candor in helping me work through my dental issue is much appreciated. The bio-dentist I went to see just seemed to dump a lot of bad (and EXPENSIVE) news on me, then sort of made an abrupt exit without taking the time to explain things. I left very confused, upset and frightened. Although part of that was this whole situation in itself.

If you wouldn't mind answering a few more questions ... I would be very grateful. I will answer yours first:



DID THIS DENTIST DO THE CROWN WORK FOR YOU? Yes, all of it. I have a mouthful of crowns ...
DID HE TAKE ROUTINE XRAYS OF YOUR TEETH? OR DID YOU REFUSE XRAYS? No, I let him take x-rays as needed ... usually every year.
THE DEEP CLEANING ON THE DISTAL (BACK) OF TOOTH #2 WAS A TRUE TEMPORARY MEASURE AT THE VERY MOST AS IT CANNOT ALTER THE BACTERIAL STATUS FROM THE DECAY. THIS DECAY MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE SHOWED UP ON XRAYS LONG BEFORE NOW. So you think my dentist just ignored that?

SURGICAL DEBRIDEMENT REQUIRES A LOT OF SCRAPING. IT IS NOT PAINFUL BUT YOU WOULD KNOW IT WAS BEING DONE. IT USUALLY TAKES A MINIMUM OF 15-20 MINUTES, SOMETIMES LONGER. The OS definitely did not do that ... he only spent a few minutes with me.

YES, #3 IS DECAYED UNDERNEATH THE CROWN AND THERE APPEARS TO BE RADIO GRAPHIC PATHOLOGY ON THE MESIAL (FRONT) ROOT. THIS TOOTH IS NOT IN SIMILAR SHAPE TO TOOTH #2.
THIS TOOTH HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN DECAYING FOR YEARS. THE BACTERIA FROM THE DECAY WAS PROLIFERATING BEYOND THE TOOTH AND THAT IS WHAT HE WAS SCRAPING OUT. BUT IT WAS INEVITABLE THAT THE DECAY WOULD KEEP SPREADING.
-- I'm not sure I'm clear on these points you make? You are referring to the #3 tooth? You also mention 'scraping out' that he did ... do you mean the OS when he extracted tooth #2? He did no scraping that I'm aware of.

HOW ABOUT CONGESTION OR STUFFINESS ON THAT SIDE OF YOUR NOSE?
- No, nothing but the usual little bit of runny nose now and then; I've had that for MANY years (Mother did too).

DID THAT DENTIST TAKE XRAYS BEFORE HE DID THE PERIO SURGERY? THE DECAY ON THE MOLARS HAS BEEN THERE AND PROGRESSING FOR A LONG TIME. At the time, the perio-dentist got x-rays that were just done by my regular dentist.

** I also want to mention that my regular dentist just put a remake of a crown on that tooth #3 in June of this summer. The bio-dentist was appalled by that.

Also, when I said amalgams before, I meant the bio-dentist pointed out that the very obvious gray areas on almost my entire upper right (the area we've been discussing) is amalgam TATOOS - underneath the gum. Too many things going on in my upper right.

Do you suggest this bio-dentist in KOP or another OS? This is costing me a fortune, but I know I can't go on like this.

In the meantime, I have been using sea salt rinses 3-5x day and using a little bit of Oil of Oregano. I know these will not "fix" what is wrong, but I'm just trying to tame the infection (if that's what it is) and get the swelling down. Do you have any other suggestions?

Yes, I would like to know the bio-dentist you recommend. Do you know him/her personally?

Thank you so much Bryanna - I can't tell you how grateful I am for your help and opinion.

Hi bchristine,
I just want to say that I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal. I can't help you unfortunately, but I can relate so much to your story, as I am going through a similar experience myself. Even our timelines are similar. Like you, I kept pursuing quite a few dentists and despite that, I am also finding that dentists and specialists keep dismissing me and telling me that all is fine with my teeth - all while I keep getting weird ongoing eruptions of symptoms. I cannot read my xrays myself, they are telling me all is fine, but my symptoms and how I feel are telling me the opposite. It doesn't help when someone you are paying to help you simply ignores you (to summarise it brutally). I cannot believe that experienced professionals (like your long term dentist) can keep missing decay or infections on your teeth. Or, are they truly not seeing any problems?
Like you, seems like my dentist didn't properly clean the area after the extraction either ... Hopefully some day some oral surgeon will take a proper look and do a thorough clean. I just hope it is not too late and both you and me don't have to keep living on antibiotics in hope that they could at least somewhat prevent the infection to become more widespread.

bchristine,

I know this is a very difficult situation for you and all very expected considering you have been under the care of the same dentist for 20 years.

FYI... I had edited my reply to you regarding the condition of tooth #3. I think you replied to me before I finished the editing. With that said, I intended to write that tooth #3 "IS" in a similar condition as #2 regarding the decay underneath the crown.

To help summarize things to this point ......

Your upper molars, #2 (now extracted) and #3 had/have extensive tooth decay underneath the crowns. Tooth #3 appears to have pathology occurring at the apex of the root on the radio graph. This would mean that tooth #3 is not only decayed but has further infection. This is most likely why the one dentist recommended that both #2 and 3 be extracted.

I really don't think that bio dentist was trying to sell you needless expensive dentistry. He was trying to inform you of the extensive decay that your original dentist had not diagnosed and he was probably not comfortable being the one to deliver that news to you. Especially since your dentist had recently put a new crown on tooth #3! Also, amalgam tattoos demonstrate a lack of skill and a bit of carelessness on the part of the treating dentist. Amalgam filling material is toxic as it carries 50%+ mercury. This material should be removed from a patients teeth with extreme caution so as to deliberately avoid as much toxic exposure to that patient as possible and in doing so prevent this material from becoming embedded under the oral tissue. It was difficult for this new dentist to be the one to tell you all of these things because after all, you had trusted your original dentist for 20 years and here's this new guy spewing all this pertinent information. I hope I've explained that okay and it that helps clarify his intentions to give you a proable reason for his unsettled demeanor with you.

To be honest, the fact that you have a mouth full of crowns that were done by the original dentist makes me wonder about the health of the rest of your teeth. The decay on 2 and 3 is blatantly obvious and should have been picked up way before now. For him or anyone else to keep repeating the deep scaling on the back of #2 without further investigation and close review of the xrays is really inconceivable. Although to be honest, this lack of proper diagnosis happens way more than it should.

To help you understand, here are some reasons teeth will decay underneath crowns:

1) When a tooth is drilled and prepped for a crown, all existing decay needs to be removed. If it's not, then the tooth will continue to decay.

2) When a crown is fitted, if there are any open margins and/or over hangs along the gum line, bacteria will get in those areas and cause tooth decay.

3) People with swollen/irritated gums or gum disease will develop chronically inflammed gum tissue. This inflammation causes the tissue to pull away from the tooth allowing bacteria to get down in between the tooth and the tissue. This bacteria causes tooth decay, infection, etc.

4) The cement that is used to adhere crowns onto the teeth loses it's adhesiveness after several years. Depending on the type of the cement used this loss of cementation can occur at different intervals. Depending on the fit of the crowns and the health of the gum tissue, micro leakage can occur resulting in tooth decay underneath the crowns.

The yearly xrays that were taken were most likely 4 bitewings. How often did he take a full mouth series, 18-20, periapical xrays? Those are the single type of xrays that you posted here. If he was only taking bitewings then he could have missed the decay on #2 and 3 because the angle of these xrays is different than the periapicals. But surely he knew something was chronic in that area and really should have investigated it further.

If the OS did not do a thorough debridement of #2 extraction site, then there could be something still brewing in that area. A new dentist should take xrays and evaluate that area along with the wisdom tooth area to be sure nothing is going on there from the previous wisdom tooth removal.

Rinsing with warm salt water 3 times a day and taking oil of oregano is helpful to a point. The entire posterior of the upper right quadrant needs to be thoroughly evaluated and treatment options need to be given to you. Tooth #3 has extensive decay and possible apical (root) pathology (infection) and the meds and herbs are not going to diminish those issues.

I will PM you the name and website of the bio dentist in KOP.

Bryanna

Thank you Bryanna.

Not good news by any means, but your information appears to be more thorough and explicit than any other dental "professional" that I have seen over the past few months. I am truly grateful to you for taking the time to evaluate my situation. I have been so frustrated, to put it mildly.

In answer to your question about the x-rays: I believe my dentist (now "ex-dentist") did a full series once every 2 years; they were not done yearly.

I had been complaining about my upper right for at least 5 years, but another rider to this bad situation is that I have been carrying a balance with this dentist for the past 20 years ... it's currently around $4000. He has never charged me interest and lets me pay whatever I can afford each month. In addition, I have 4 more months of payments to the periodontist for the gum surgery back in 2013 which I believe now was unnecessary and may have aggravated the issues I'm having...

The fact that I owe and have been paying out so much money to these Drs. for not properly diagnosing or caring for my teeth really angers me. Do you think I have any restitution for the one dentist?

I am SO hoping this dentist in PA you are recommending can truly help me; however I am a bit concerned that they are not local when I may need so much work done. Do you need my email?

Again, thank you so much Bryanna.

Thanks so much for your compassion Femlex. In times like these, it's comforting to know that someone understands. I am sorry to hear you are in a similar situation. If you'd like to share, I will listen

Have the antibiotics had a negative effect on you? I doubled up on my quality probiotic and I'm trying to eat more fermented things. I think it has been very helpful, as I've only experienced mild side effects (lack of energy/brain fog/mild stomach discomfort).

As I wrote to Bryanna, it really angers me that you pay these dental "professionals" your good, hard-earned money (in my case, my savings) and you get lousy care in return.

bchristine,

I sent you a personal message from this forum.
On the top right of this page where it says Welcome, bchristine... private the words private messages will be highlighted... click on that..... then open up my message to you. The dentist information is in there.

I can understand your concerns about traveling an hour or so to see a dentist. It can add stress and expense to an already stressful and expensive situation. I don't personally know of anyone closer to you that I would feel comfortable recommending. Take a look at this link and scroll through these names. Let me know if you've seen any of them or if any of them are closer than KOP to you.

Regarding the balance on your account with your original dentist... this will be a tricky thing as you may not be able to pay that and take on more expenses. Let me say that irrelevant of your payment arrangement with him, there is no excuse for him not to properly diagnose tooth decay. The other dentists that you have seen recently, have any of them performed a comprehensive examination and full mouth xrays on you? Have any provided you with a written treatment plan for your entire mouth?

In order to submit a written complaint to the dental board, you need to be able to provide a history of your dental problems and treatment along with proper radio graphic proof of mis or inappropriate diagnosis resulting in unnecessary or negligent dental treatment that caused further dental problems, even loss of teeth. The xrays of your upper right, clearly show dental decay under the crowns of teeth #2 and 3. If those xrays were taken after the insertion of the new crown on #3, then it's obvious the decay was not diagnosed. I cannot comment on the health of the rest of your teeth as you have only provided xrays of the upper right.

The one thing that can prevent a positive outcome for the patient who files a legitimate complaint with the dental board is if the dentist can prove that the patient was not compliant in some way. For example, refusing diagnostic xrays... not following through with appointments ..... not receiving routine preventive dental cleanings ..... chronic poor oral hygiene .... lifestyle choices that promote poor dental health like smoking, alcohol, poor diet ..... things like that.

Question.... what has the original dentist said about having to extract #2? Is he aware that you are seeing other dentists?

Regarding the periodontist fee for the (crown lengthening?) procedure on #2 ...... if there was decay on the xrays taken just prior to that procedure and you were not informed about it, he too can be held liable for withholding diagnostic information from you and for performing a procedure on a tooth without proper diagnosis.

The dentist I recommended in PA will be honest with you. His examination is very thorough and complete. All of his findings and recommended treatment are noted on your digital chart. It would be best if you went there or wherever as a new patient and did not go in with a grudge against your previous dentist. You have to keep in mind that no one wants to be put in a situation where they feel the patient wants them to go against another colleague. My recommendation would be to present yourself as someone who is concerned about the health of your teeth from a holistic aspect and the unexpected recent extraction of your tooth has prompted you to get another set of eyes to evaluate the health of your teeth very carefully. Do not mention that you have an outstanding balance with anyone as that can raise flags that don't need to be raised. Keep in mind that you are seeking an unbiased, honest evaluation of your dental health.

Check your personal messages for the dentist info.

Bryana






QUOTE=bchristine;1170257]Thank you Bryanna.

Not good news by any means, but your information appears to be more thorough and explicit than any other dental "professional" that I have seen over the past few months. I am truly grateful to you for taking the time to evaluate my situation. I have been so frustrated, to put it mildly.

In answer to your question about the x-rays: I believe my dentist (now "ex-dentist") did a full series once every 2 years; they were not done yearly.

I had been complaining about my upper right for at least 5 years, but another rider to this bad situation is that I have been carrying a balance with this dentist for the past 20 years ... it's currently around $4000. He has never charged me interest and lets me pay whatever I can afford each month. In addition, I have 4 more months of payments to the periodontist for the gum surgery back in 2013 which I believe now was unnecessary and may have aggravated the issues I'm having...

The fact that I owe and have been paying out so much money to these Drs. for not properly diagnosing or caring for my teeth really angers me. Do you think I have any restitution for the one dentist?

I am SO hoping this dentist in PA you are recommending can truly help me; however I am a bit concerned that they are not local when I may need so much work done. Do you need my email?

Again, thank you so much Bryanna.[/QUOTE]