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Old 01-31-2016, 12:31 PM #1
azmanatheart azmanatheart is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 13
10 yr Member
azmanatheart azmanatheart is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 13
10 yr Member
Default Need All Molars Extracted from infections While Treating SIBO

Dear Bryanna,
I really need your advice about this, because my FUnctional Medicine MD told me I had better find a "Biological Oral Surgeon" before proceeding.
Basically, most of the health issues I am dealing with now are my own fault due to eating poorly but knowing better. But that's not really the point, except that at 62 years old, living with constant IBS, Constipation, Brain Fog and a multitude of other symptoms, I am finding it very difficult to function well any longer as a father, husband, and provider. I am in danger of losing my job, my family, and my life.
But enough drama, the facts are this;
I have a very severe case of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth(SIBO) and Candida (SIFO)along with the highly inflamed and permeable small and large intestine. For those who dont know SIBO, it is when the small intestine becomes overcrowded with good and bad microbiota that should really only be in the large intestine, where they serve a very important and necessary symbiotic funtion such as making vitamins, hormones, and aiding digestion. THe small intestine should have very few intestinal flora in it, since its job is to allow small fully digested food substances and nutrition to pass through the villi into the bloodstream. When the small intestine has way too many microbes in it, the small bowel cannot absorb properly, becomes inflamed, and the tight junctures, or lining of the small intestine opens up and becomes too permeable and allows larger undigested food particles and bacteria to penetrate the bowel and get into the blood in large and diverse quantities and cause, among other things, an over burden on the immune system which starts autoimmune reactions which can lead to autoimmune disease states and the development of a HUGE toxic load on the body. Every morning when i wake up, I feel like I've been poisoned, or drunk the night before, because all this extra microbiota causes the bowels to slow down or drastically reduce peristalsis and the food sits in there too long and ferments and turns rancid(YUK). You can only imagine the effect this can have on every system in the body.

TOO LONG- try to get to the question.

I have a good protocol I'm about to start to treat this high hydrogen/high methane producing type pf SIBO along with deeply entrenched Candida and other funguses. Im starting a modified Elemental Diet, which is a liquid shake of Pure Form Amino Acids that need no digestion and get directly assimilated along with some other critical ingredients in an attempt to stabilize things before trying to kill off the excess bacteria with herbal mixtures that work as well as, but more selectively than, Drug Store broad spectrum antibiotics. This [process may take anywhere from 2 months to a year for my intestines to fully heal and be repopulated with a diverse microbiome that allows me to get the best nutrition from what will have to be a diet free of sugars and all processed carbs, grains, gluten, ;egumes and some other offenders.

Now to the point finally
!- During this period of poor health I have developed a tremendous number of necrotic teeth, including root canaled teeth that have deteriorated, with crowns falling out exposing live, toxic bacteria in my mouth. gums and jawbone. The Panaflex even showed some pockets of infection in my gums around some healthy teeth and the jawbone, almost like spontaneous infections. I probably have 10 root canaled teeth, with about 6 of them older than 5 years that are just rotting away under the crowns. Bryanna is right that the bacteria is still always in there, and if not leaking from the root tips, the gum recedes around the bottom of the crown and allows the crown to leak dozens of highly toxic bacteria into my mouth, gut and blood stream.

So, it is agreed that I need to have a bunch of teeth extracted, I visited a 'respected oral surgeon" who scheduled me to go on 2 sessions and have the uppers and lowers on one side extracted at each visit. Left side, then right side. I have only 1 wisdom tooth that formed and is partially erupted in my overcrowded mouth. I hade a palate expander as a kid, and they widened my jaw, but not enough, and they needed to extract all my second bicuspids to get everything straightened out with braces. (If they had continued to expand my palate, I may not now be suffering with severe obstructive sleep apnea, maybe). He is known as a good oral surgeon in the area, but not a "Biological Dentist", and I am very concerned that in the middle of my attempts to repair my gut, it will be exposed to a trememdous number of bacteria that will be released into my throat and open wounds and blood stream at a time when my immunity is already over burdened, and I do NOT want to take the broad spectrum antibiotics that will slaughter whatever beneficial flora I have in an attempt to prevent oral infections and bone infections.

I am in a quandary about knowing what to do. My Doctor says my case is extremely complicated and one of the more severe cases of SIBO he has seen, plus this complication, and he could only advise to choose wisely what oral surgeon I see. that it must be one who understands and admits that there are toxic elements used by other dentists in my mouth including the fillings and the root canals, and who knows how to treat it with minimal exposure to toxic substances.

So, I don't know whether to wait: the problem with that is that this bacteria continues to contribute to my gut and health issues, or if I move forward will it set back my SIBO treatment or worse. I need bone grafts and posts places, so this is a lot of visits to the oral surgeon each time exposing more toxic bacterium.

So, Bryanna, finally the questions;
Do you know of a good Biological Oral Surgeon in the Northern New Jersey area? Or an association they belong to that might have a member list?
Do you think I can have this work done with only herbal antibiotics to prevent post op infections.

Do you think I should wait to have this done until I have got my SIBO under control, which may or may not be possible with bacteria from rotting teeth seeping down my throat every day.
I really dont know what to do and am afraid to make a bad situation worse.

I am already losing memory, and having other cognitive declines which is interfering with my life as a result of what is permeating my intestines, and I cannot afford to stop working, and must be more effective at work to be able to put my two daughters through college on limited funds with no savings. And until I get my whole situation 'together' I am having difficulty controling the stress of everyday life and work, which as you know, contributes to Leaky gut.

Any suggestions that you or anyone can share with me? Even if another member knows a good biological oral surgeon in Northern New Jersey area that I can consult would be helpful.

FYI, I was scheduled(but cancelled) to go tomorrow to the OS and have tooth #'s17, 18(root canaled with a temp crown that is leaking decay) and 19( another root canaled crowned tooth that is intact but shows infection at roots and lower jawbone) and on the upper, I had tooth 15 extracted 6 months ago after it rotted and fell off at the gumline) and had to be dug out and the roots chiseled out, which penetrated a low lying maxillary sinus that has never healed well, and I still get small pieces of brokem tooth working their way out) and finally tooth 14, which had a root canal and crown, but is now an exposed stump that is black with about 1/2 of the tooth broken off at the gumline.

Help me , please. I need to get better and rebuild myself so I take care of those that depend on me, and then maybe one day be able to save a little for retirement.

Thank you
J
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:27 PM #2
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Bryanna Bryanna is offline
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Posts: 4,624
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Bryanna Bryanna is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,624
15 yr Member
Default

Hi azmanatheart,

I looked back on your previous posts from 2011. I guess you've come to the realization that your infected and root canaled teeth are contributing factors to your ill health and retaining these teeth will be counterproductive of anything you do to try and help your systemic health. I totally agree with that conclusion.

I'm glad that are you seeing a FM physician and that he is including your oral health as part of your overall health. These are essential connections that are rarely addressed and never addressed in mainstream healthcare. So yay for that!!

I appreciate all of the information that you have shared here. Your situation is very complicated and I agree that your health is in jeopardy. I am going to PM you an email address that we can communicate through... if that's okay with you.

Bryanna




Quote:
Originally Posted by azmanatheart View Post
Dear Bryanna,
I really need your advice about this, because my FUnctional Medicine MD told me I had better find a "Biological Oral Surgeon" before proceeding.
Basically, most of the health issues I am dealing with now are my own fault due to eating poorly but knowing better. But that's not really the point, except that at 62 years old, living with constant IBS, Constipation, Brain Fog and a multitude of other symptoms, I am finding it very difficult to function well any longer as a father, husband, and provider. I am in danger of losing my job, my family, and my life.
But enough drama, the facts are this;
I have a very severe case of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth(SIBO) and Candida (SIFO)along with the highly inflamed and permeable small and large intestine. For those who dont know SIBO, it is when the small intestine becomes overcrowded with good and bad microbiota that should really only be in the large intestine, where they serve a very important and necessary symbiotic funtion such as making vitamins, hormones, and aiding digestion. THe small intestine should have very few intestinal flora in it, since its job is to allow small fully digested food substances and nutrition to pass through the villi into the bloodstream. When the small intestine has way too many microbes in it, the small bowel cannot absorb properly, becomes inflamed, and the tight junctures, or lining of the small intestine opens up and becomes too permeable and allows larger undigested food particles and bacteria to penetrate the bowel and get into the blood in large and diverse quantities and cause, among other things, an over burden on the immune system which starts autoimmune reactions which can lead to autoimmune disease states and the development of a HUGE toxic load on the body. Every morning when i wake up, I feel like I've been poisoned, or drunk the night before, because all this extra microbiota causes the bowels to slow down or drastically reduce peristalsis and the food sits in there too long and ferments and turns rancid(YUK). You can only imagine the effect this can have on every system in the body.

TOO LONG- try to get to the question.

I have a good protocol I'm about to start to treat this high hydrogen/high methane producing type pf SIBO along with deeply entrenched Candida and other funguses. Im starting a modified Elemental Diet, which is a liquid shake of Pure Form Amino Acids that need no digestion and get directly assimilated along with some other critical ingredients in an attempt to stabilize things before trying to kill off the excess bacteria with herbal mixtures that work as well as, but more selectively than, Drug Store broad spectrum antibiotics. This [process may take anywhere from 2 months to a year for my intestines to fully heal and be repopulated with a diverse microbiome that allows me to get the best nutrition from what will have to be a diet free of sugars and all processed carbs, grains, gluten, ;egumes and some other offenders.

Now to the point finally
!- During this period of poor health I have developed a tremendous number of necrotic teeth, including root canaled teeth that have deteriorated, with crowns falling out exposing live, toxic bacteria in my mouth. gums and jawbone. The Panaflex even showed some pockets of infection in my gums around some healthy teeth and the jawbone, almost like spontaneous infections. I probably have 10 root canaled teeth, with about 6 of them older than 5 years that are just rotting away under the crowns. Bryanna is right that the bacteria is still always in there, and if not leaking from the root tips, the gum recedes around the bottom of the crown and allows the crown to leak dozens of highly toxic bacteria into my mouth, gut and blood stream.

So, it is agreed that I need to have a bunch of teeth extracted, I visited a 'respected oral surgeon" who scheduled me to go on 2 sessions and have the uppers and lowers on one side extracted at each visit. Left side, then right side. I have only 1 wisdom tooth that formed and is partially erupted in my overcrowded mouth. I hade a palate expander as a kid, and they widened my jaw, but not enough, and they needed to extract all my second bicuspids to get everything straightened out with braces. (If they had continued to expand my palate, I may not now be suffering with severe obstructive sleep apnea, maybe). He is known as a good oral surgeon in the area, but not a "Biological Dentist", and I am very concerned that in the middle of my attempts to repair my gut, it will be exposed to a trememdous number of bacteria that will be released into my throat and open wounds and blood stream at a time when my immunity is already over burdened, and I do NOT want to take the broad spectrum antibiotics that will slaughter whatever beneficial flora I have in an attempt to prevent oral infections and bone infections.

I am in a quandary about knowing what to do. My Doctor says my case is extremely complicated and one of the more severe cases of SIBO he has seen, plus this complication, and he could only advise to choose wisely what oral surgeon I see. that it must be one who understands and admits that there are toxic elements used by other dentists in my mouth including the fillings and the root canals, and who knows how to treat it with minimal exposure to toxic substances.

So, I don't know whether to wait: the problem with that is that this bacteria continues to contribute to my gut and health issues, or if I move forward will it set back my SIBO treatment or worse. I need bone grafts and posts places, so this is a lot of visits to the oral surgeon each time exposing more toxic bacterium.

So, Bryanna, finally the questions;
Do you know of a good Biological Oral Surgeon in the Northern New Jersey area? Or an association they belong to that might have a member list?
Do you think I can have this work done with only herbal antibiotics to prevent post op infections.

Do you think I should wait to have this done until I have got my SIBO under control, which may or may not be possible with bacteria from rotting teeth seeping down my throat every day.
I really dont know what to do and am afraid to make a bad situation worse.

I am already losing memory, and having other cognitive declines which is interfering with my life as a result of what is permeating my intestines, and I cannot afford to stop working, and must be more effective at work to be able to put my two daughters through college on limited funds with no savings. And until I get my whole situation 'together' I am having difficulty controling the stress of everyday life and work, which as you know, contributes to Leaky gut.

Any suggestions that you or anyone can share with me? Even if another member knows a good biological oral surgeon in Northern New Jersey area that I can consult would be helpful.

FYI, I was scheduled(but cancelled) to go tomorrow to the OS and have tooth #'s17, 18(root canaled with a temp crown that is leaking decay) and 19( another root canaled crowned tooth that is intact but shows infection at roots and lower jawbone) and on the upper, I had tooth 15 extracted 6 months ago after it rotted and fell off at the gumline) and had to be dug out and the roots chiseled out, which penetrated a low lying maxillary sinus that has never healed well, and I still get small pieces of brokem tooth working their way out) and finally tooth 14, which had a root canal and crown, but is now an exposed stump that is black with about 1/2 of the tooth broken off at the gumline.

Help me , please. I need to get better and rebuild myself so I take care of those that depend on me, and then maybe one day be able to save a little for retirement.

Thank you
J
__________________
Bryanna

***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:50 PM #3
azmanatheart azmanatheart is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 13
10 yr Member
azmanatheart azmanatheart is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 13
10 yr Member
Default My Teeth almost Killed Me..For Real

Bryanna & Forum Members,

Although Bryanna was kind enough to PM with me last year due to the complexity and severity of my situation, I wanted to post a follow up in the hope that someone may be able to avoid what I went through.

I don't want to be dramatic or write a thesis that is too long to read, we are all busy.

Basically, since my last post, I have been hospitalized 4 times(admitted, not just ER), for stays of 10, 6, 4 and 4 days. I also declined admission against doctors orders 2 other times, and had a number of other ambulance rides to the ER. ALL of this was as a result of, as one dentist put it "Rampant Decay". I had some issues which contributed to my oral health decline like chronic Dry Mouth, partially from medication and from being poorly hydrated. I also had numerous root canaled teeth and together with gum line decay on 90% of my teeth, it all became unmanageable despite constant trips to the dentist for fillings, crown replacements, etc.

I consulted with 2 oral surgeons after being told by my dentist that the damage was out of control, and it was decided that I needed, ulltimately, to have all my teeth extracted, and to develop a plan for either dentures or implants or a combination of both.

Those details are not why I am writing this. Both my dentist and the oral surgeon to whom he referred me joked about me being 'paranoid' about the bacteria. In retrospect, all the procedures my dentist did without a dam, without any barrier to minimize the release of toxic substances as he basically 'aerosol-ed it' (aka weaponized it) and let it all go down my thought (except what was suctioned).

Then the oral surgeon extracted all but 4 of my lower teeth, leaving behind 2 rear molars and 2 incisors that have visible decay to stabilize my temporary lower denture. I was swollen and my system was so traumatized, it was at least a month before I felt semi-normal. So picture a lower jaw after the extractions of infected teeth and the sockets, sutured together, trying to heal next to other infected teeth. And with such a large area of extraction, even though I was sedated, I know a ton of blood and bacteria went down my throat.

The plan was to put in implants on the lower jaw after healing(min 3 months) and then after the implants are fused with the bone(another 6 months, extract those last rotting teeth when the lower restoration was put in.

About a month after that extraction, one morning I became severely ill with nausea and vomited so many times that I had to be rushed to the hospital by paramedic because I could not stay concious and was obviously severly dehydrated.

After 1/2 hour in the ER where they gave me IV Zofran, my temperature spiked to 105 and I was placed in ICU with Sepsis and double pneumonia from inhaling my infected vomit. I donnt remember that first day and a half, but they say that I could easily have died if I hadnt gotten there when I did, or if I didnt respond to the antibiotic coctail.

It took 10 days to get the intestinal infection and the pneumonia well enough to go home. I still work, but I was ordered to rest at home for at least another week, still on multiple oral antibiotics.

I recovered enough to get back to work, eat a very clean and healthy diet, but then tooth #2, my upper right 12 year molar (previously root canal and crown) got an infection at the tip and was in need of immediate extraction, so I went to a young oral surgeon who was available at 4 pm pm on a Friday afternoon, and under nitrous and local he extracted it in pieces. It took about 45 minutes, I could hear all this crunching and breaking, and at one point he said that my tooth was fused to the bone. Then he said that a piece of the root had gone into my maxillary sinus, and after some time spent trying to retrieve it, he said that it will have to either stay there or be removed by an ENT. It also left a fistula. There was an obvious communication noticeable during the surgery, and he said that he didnt want to keep poking around for the root tip out of fear that a fistula would develop. It did, and it didnt heal despite 3 weeks of total caution following all the protocols.

Longer story short, after consultations, they decided that the best they could do was a buccal flat, which was described to me as 'taking a flap of skin from the inside of my cheek and transplanting it across the opening and filling the fistula with
'harvested fat'. What I didnt know was that the flap would remain attached to my cheek, essentially forever sewing my cheek to my gums( with other implications for future restorative work.

The next day I was admitted to the hospital with a severe infection in that whole area and maxillary sinus, the entire side of my face and temple was swollen out to side. Another 6 days in the hospital to get the infection under control so that when it was better, they could schedule a Caldwell Luc procedure to go in and clean out the sinus, get the root tip, and preemptively remove tooth #3, my right side 6th year molar, because its roots were also in the sinus, and they didnt want to have to deal with another potential fistula. The surgery was completed, the necrotic and some polyps removed, the lost root tip, and tooth #3 was removed through the hole made in the gums above my bicuspid for access.

An infection and fistula developed within 2 days of that surgery and after the 2nd surgery to close the fistula, I developed another severe sinus infection that required me to be on multiple IV antibiotics for 5 weeks.

This is not even the entire story.
I dont place blame on the surgeons who got me after the initial large lower extraction and hospitalization. By then my system had been overwhelmed by the nastiest of bacteria, the ones that are in your teeth. After that, I just wasn't healing the way I used to, and, well thats that.

The right side of my face is damaged; my right upper lip is numb and droops lower than the other side. There were so many surgeries in the upper right side of my mouth that it may take years to recover fully.

All of this I believe had its origin in root canals that decomposed and the release of all that bacteria into my system during ordinary unprotected dental procedures and the simultaneous lower extractions of all but 4 teeth, which are still leaching bacteria into my system.

Im doing my best to recover my intestinal flora and build up my own immune system, but only to know that whatever I do next, implants, whatever, will require more antibiotics, and it will literally be years before my gut and immune system will be back to normal (or close)

Dont ever let anyone minimize how toxic oral decay and bacteria can be, and dont let your dentist do procedures with at least a dam to keep the bad stuff from going down your throat. It ruined my health and will ruin yours.
If you have dry mouth, do something about it, it will lead to decay no matter how often you brush and floss.
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