Hi Bryanna:
I wish I had found this web site before proceeding with dental implants your comments and advise are so helpful!
However, I now have had my 4 top front teeth removed and titanium posts screwed into the sockets plus some graft material was used. This was 3 1/2 weeks ago and I find the strange salty taste I now experience very unpleasant. At first I thought it may have something to do with the stitches but they came out a week ago and the taste persists. The dentist says this will go away in time and it is from the bone graft material. I did not enquire what material was used for the graft. Your comments on this would be most appreciated, I happen to dislike this salty taste as I don't use salt. Is it usual and does it normally go away in time?
Over one tooth the gums are not closed over yet so I hope they will grow together in time at my last visit the dentist used lazer treatment in that area to encourage healing. I am comfortable with the lazer having experienced wonderful results from lazer treatment to heal an open wound on my leg which was not healing after a heamatoma a couple of years ago.
Regards Judith C

Hi Judith,

Thanks for the kind words...... I do try very hard to be informative and I know I don't always share the best of news......:-(( But I believe everyone has the right to be informed as much as possible.

Would you mind sharing a little bit more information? It may help me understand your situation a little better.

1) Why were the teeth removed? Had they been root canaled previously or had any of them had apicoectomy surgery? Were they abcessed? Do you have periodontal disease?

2) Were the implants placed immediately at the time of the extractions? If not, did you wear a partial denture or have a temporary bridge during the healing phase from the extractions?

3) If the implants were not immediate, was the bone graft material placed at the time of the extractions or at the time of the implant placement?

4) What are you wearing in that space now?

5) Your quote: <<Over one tooth the gums are not closed over yet so I hope they will grow together in time >> Do you mean the one "implant" is exposed through the gum tissue??

Laser therapy can be very successful in many circumstances, as you well know from your leg wound. However, I am curious as to what the dentist used the laser on if the gum tissue is not closed over the "implant".

If you wouldn't mind sharing a bit more with us, I may be able to offer you some insight as to what that salty taste is.... ~'.'~

Bryanna



3)

Hi Bryanna:
Thank you for your comments and to give you a little more information as per your questions.
1) The teeth were removed as 48 years ago they were capped and shortly thereafter I had a lot of pain. Over the next 4 years each tooth abcessed and had very poor root canal work done. When the last tooth died I was fortunate to find myself in the hands of a young dentist training to be a surgeon who found the whole area above the teeth both roots a bone were infected. He immediately did surgery to remove the infection and thankfully saved the situation. However, the gums recessed and in a few years I had to replace the caps to cover the black margins. This was 40 years ago and I treated these teeth with TLC and managed to keep them all this time. However, when one broke recently it was clear all of them had some decay around the tops of the caps and it did not seem appropriate to try to affix new caps on these old teeth. Hence the decision to do extractions and implants. I do not have periodontal disease but the gums around these 4 teeth always looked somewhat grey in colour compared to the rest of my gums and this area was probably irritated by the bonding done over the last few years to cover the dark margins.
2) The implants were placed immediately when the extractions were done and some bone graft added. It was bovine material. I have a partial 'flipper' to use while the healing takes place over the next few months.
3) It seems at the time of extraction the dentist said he had to 'clean up the gums' and it left an area over one tooth which is like a gully up into the gum line. At my last visit, a week ago, the dentist said it was starting to heal now and it looks a bit better to me. Hopefully the gum will grow together over this area in time. I asked if I should massage the area with anything but was advised to leave it alone.
4) Could I also ask for your comments in general. I now have 4 teeth left with root canals and a total of 7 crowns. 4 of these crowns are nickle over my back lower molars. 3 of the crowns are procelain over gold. Now that titanium has been added to this mix of metals is this healthy for the long term or is it likley these metals may react badly together. May it be advisable to consider have the nickle crowns replaced?
At this time the salty taste is not has bad as it was and is worse when I do not have the partial in place. Once my tongue touches the area of the implants and metal covers it is certainly more annoying and may have to do with the metal.
I hope these comments clarify my circumstances. As you can tell I had bad teeth all my life the enamel was compromised when they came in due to high fevers I had as a child and probably bad nutrition in childhood, after the 2nd world war food was scarce and also dentists were not good in the UK.
Thanks for your help,
Sincerely, Judith C.

I was reading about your dental implants.

I hope the healing is progressing well.

I had all my teeth out when I was 17. After 44 years with dentures my gums had shrunk so much they wouldnt hold in dentures.

So, I had 2 metal implants put in and my dentures clip onto these.

I find it strange/scary/invasive at times to have foreign material (a hunk of steel) embedded into my gums, but it certaibnly does the job and does hold my denture in place. I can eat better now.

My point is, modern technology can offer some wonderful resolutions to our problems, so I think we are indeed fortunate

All the best
Amii

Hi Judith,

I'll put my answers in CAPS after your statements. I must first make you aware that after reading your post I am compelled to give you as much information as I can about what you have described here. Please do not be alarmed by any of it. Just please stay on top of what you are experiencing through the healing phase and if anything seems a bit odd, do not hesitate to see your dentist about it. OK?? ~'.'~

1) The teeth were removed as 48 years ago they were capped and shortly thereafter I had a lot of pain. Over the next 4 years each tooth abcessed and had very poor root canal work done. When the last tooth died I was fortunate to find myself in the hands of a young dentist training to be a surgeon who found the whole area above the teeth both roots a bone were infected. He immediately did surgery to remove the infection and thankfully saved the situation.
<<HE DID WHAT IS CALLED APICOECTOMIES. THIS IS A SURGICAL PROCEDURE WHERE THE DENTIST ENTERS THE JAWBONE ABOVE THE ROOT OF THE INFECTED TEETH, SCRAPES AWAY SOME OF THE INFECTED BONE AROUND EACH TOOTH, CUTS OFF THE END OF THE ROOT OF EACH TOOTH, SCRAPES OUT SOME OF THE INFECTED MATERIAL INSIDE THE TEETH, THEN CLOSES THE END OF EACH ROOT WITH A BLOB OF MERCURY FILLING MATERIAL.>>

However, the gums recessed and in a few years I had to replace the caps to cover the black margins.
<<THE GUMS RECESSED BECAUSE OF THE LATENT CHRONIC INFECTION IN THAT AREA AND BECAUSE OF THE IRRITATION CAUSED BY THE MERCURY FILLING TO THE UNDERLYING GUM TISSUE. THIS IS THE TYPICAL SCENERIO OF ANY TOOTH THAT HAS HAD AN APICO. APICOECTOMIES CANNOT CURE AN ABCESSED TOOTH BECAUSE IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REMOVE ALL OF THE INFECTED MATERIAL FROM THE TINY MICROSCOPIC CANALS INSIDE THE TOOTH. TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, THE MERCURY FILLING MATERIAL BECOMES EMBEDDED IN THE BONE AND OFTEN CANNOT BE REMOVED ENTIRELY.>>

This was 40 years ago and I treated these teeth with TLC and managed to keep them all this time. However, when one broke recently it was clear all of them had some decay around the tops of the caps and it did not seem appropriate to try to affix new caps on these old teeth. Hence the decision to do extractions and implants.
<<FORTY YEARS IS A VERY LONG TIME TO RETAIN ROOT CANALED AND APICOED TEETH. I IMAGINE THERE HAD TO BE SOME EXTENSIVE BONE LOSS ACROSS THAT ENTIRE AREA AFTER ALL THAT TIME.>>

I do not have periodontal disease but the gums around these 4 teeth always looked somewhat grey in colour compared to the rest of my gums and this area was probably irritated by the bonding done over the last few years to cover the dark margins.
<<THE GREY COLORED GUMS INDICATED ISCHEMIA. THIS IS CAUSED BY THE LACK OF BLOOD SUPPLY IN THAT AREA DUE TO THE CHRONIC INFECTION THERE. THE BONDING WAS NOT THE CULPRIT, IT WAS THE BACTERIA.>>

2) The implants were placed immediately when the extractions were done and some bone graft added. It was bovine material. I have a partial 'flipper' to use while the healing takes place over the next few months.
<<I HOPE YOUR DENTIST WILL BE MONITORING THE INTEGRATION OF THE IMPLANTS WITH RADIOGRAPHS AT LEAST MONTHLY FOR THE NEXT 6 MONTHS BEFORE ANY PERMANENT CROWNS ARE FITTED. YOU MAY BE IN A HIGH RISK CATEGORY FOR IMPLANT FAILURE DUE TO THE LONGEVITY OF THE RETAINMENT OF THE ROOT CANALED/ APICOED TEETH. HOPEFULLY YOUR DENTIST REVIEWED THAT INFORMATION WITH YOU PRIOR TO PLACING THE IMPLANTS. >>

3) It seems at the time of extraction the dentist said he had to 'clean up the gums' and it left an area over one tooth which is like a gully up into the gum line. At my last visit, a week ago, the dentist said it was starting to heal now and it looks a bit better to me. Hopefully the gum will grow together over this area in time. I asked if I should massage the area with anything but was advised to leave it alone.
<<THE "CLEAN UP OF THE GUMS" MEANS HE HAD TO REMOVE THE ISCHEMIC BONE AND GUM TISSUE THAT I SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER. TO LEAVE ANY OF THIS BEHIND COULD CAUSE THE BODY TO REJECT THE BONE GRAFT AND JEOPARDIZE THE INTEGRATION OF THE IMPLANTS. HOWEVER, YOU WILL NEED CAREFUL MONITORING TO MAKE SURE THE BONE GRAFT MATERIAL IS INTEGRATING PROPERLY WITH YOUR OWN BONE AND THAT THE IMPLANTS ARE SOLIDIFYING IN THE JAWBONE.>>

4) Could I also ask for your comments in general. I now have 4 teeth left with root canals and a total of 7 crowns. 4 of these crowns are nickle over my back lower molars. 3 of the crowns are procelain over gold. Now that titanium has been added to this mix of metals is this healthy for the long term or is it likley these metals may react badly together. May it be advisable to consider have the nickle crowns replaced?
<<I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONSIDER THE REASONS, BOTH PRO AND CON, FOR KEEPING OR REMOVING THOSE 4 ROOT CANALED TEETH. THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY IRRELEVANT OF HOW WELL THE ROOT CANALS WERE PERFORMED BECAUSE OF THE MICROSCOPIC CANALS, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, CANNOT BE CLEANED OUT. THESE MILLIONS OF TINY CANALS HARBOR INFECTIOUS BACTERIA WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR YOUR OVERALL HEALTH. YOU COULD ASK YOUR DENTIST WHAT YOUR TREATMENT OPTIONS WOULD BE IF YOU WERE TO REMOVE THEM. THOSE OPTIONS MAY HELP YOU TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION ON WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU.
CROWNS THAT ARE MADE OF NICKEL ARE TOXIC TO MOST HUMAN BEINGS. THE DISSIMILAR METALS THAT YOU SPEAK ABOUT IS AN EXCELLENT OBSERVATION ON YOUR PART!! THE ACTIVITY CAUSED BY THE MIXTURE OF METALS IS ACTUALLY CALLED "GALVANIZATION". THIS IS WHEN SEVERAL METALS ARE PLACES IN AN AREA, LIKE THE MOUTH, THAT ARE CONTRADICTIVE OR NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER. THE METALS GIVE OFF CONSTANT CONDUCTIVE SPARKS SIMILAR TO A BATTERY. THIS IS WELL KNOWN TO CAUSE OR WORSEN NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS. YOUR PORCELAIN OVER GOLD CROWN IS ALSO A MIXTURE OF METALS WITHIN THAT GOLD SUBSTRUCTURE. IT IS NOT PURE GOLD ONLY ABOUT 50% AT THE VERY BEST. DO YOU ALSO HAVE MERCURY FILLINGS?>>

At this time the salty taste is not has bad as it was and is worse when I do not have the partial in place. Once my tongue touches the area of the implants and metal covers it is certainly more annoying and may have to do with the metal.
<< THAT SALTY TASTE HAS ME CONCERNED GIVEN ALL THAT YOU HAVE SHARED HERE. I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH TO HAVE RADIOGRAPHIC MONITORING EVERY MONTH FOR THE NEXT 6 MONTHS TO SEE PROGRESSION OF THE HEALING OF THAT AREA.>>

I hope these comments clarify my circumstances. As you can tell I had bad teeth all my life the enamel was compromised when they came in due to high fevers I had as a child and probably bad nutrition in childhood, after the 2nd world war food was scarce and also dentists were not good in the UK.
<< I UNDERSTAND YOUR SITUATION, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON AT ALL. I DO BELEIVE THAT YOU HAVE DONE ALL THAT YOU COULD TO KEEP YOUR TEETH IN THE BEST SHAPE POSSIBLE.>>

Judith, please keep us informed on how you are doing. Please know that I have given you this information with the best of intentions. I just wish more dentists would share this with their patients prior to doing any dental work.

Best Regards,
Bryanna

Hi Bryanna
Goodness Gracious your comments while much appreciated are certainly rather disturbing. The dentist did not mention a higher likelyhood of implant failure but did insist on a CT scan to assess the bone. He was confident of the outcome after assessing this scan.
The dentist said he did not need to see me until early May which will be 4 months after the implant placement so I will have to ask him for more frequent
checks.
You ask if I have mercury fillings. I certainly did for many many years, however, 15 years ago I happily found myself in the hands of an excellent dentist. After having been tested for dental materials she removed the mercury fillings. However, not being able to afford new crowns to replace the the nickle ones on the back molars she did wonder if there may be mercury left under these. I had no idea mercury would have been used to top off the roots at the time of the surgery.
Before I found this excellent dentist, the one I had been seeing had wanted me to have the root canals re-done on the 4 front teeth and put new crowns on them. I had a trusted endodontist at that time and went to him to question this course of action. He did not recommend at all doing this as the teeth had been treated so long ago and would be fragile and likely break if redoing root canals plus not knowing the material used originally would make removal uncertain. He did mention I was most fortunate to have kept the teeth so long and it was helped by my good health.
Do you have any suggestions/recommendations for me that I can do myself to assist in success of the implants. I had a recent check on my bone density which was excellent for my age. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
Thank you sooo much for your understanding and help. Hopefully this correspondence may help others in similar situations.
Judith C

Hello Judith,

I know my comments are disturbing....... I apologize for being so forward but we all have the right to be well informed and unfortunately alot of information is being held back from patients that shouldn't be.

Many times a dentist will not offer all of the information for fear that the patient will not follow through with treatment. Sometimes, the dentist is very caught up in practicing the same thing over and over again and just has not looked at things from a different perspective.

I am glad that you had the CT scan. This request alone says the dentist was somewhat apprehensive about whether or not your bone was healthy enough to integrate dental implants. Which is a common concern in patients such as yourself who've had teeth with root canals, apicoectomies and longstanding infections. This information alone places you in a high risk category. It does not mean the dental implants are doomed to fail....... it just means that careful monitoring of the integration process can prevent an unpleasant or unexpected negative outcome.

The nickel crowns may or may not have mercury underneath them. According to the manufacturer who makes the mercury filling material, it is illegal and unhealthy to leave any mercury residue under any crown or any other filling material. However, it is not uncommon for a dentist to leave a thin layer of an old mercury filling as a base under a new crown or other filling even though they are well aware of the legal aspect of it. Unfortunately, even with radiographs it can be difficult to detect this thin layer of mercury under a new restoration unless the layer is very large.

Your quote........ <<Before I found this excellent dentist, the one I had been seeing had wanted me to have the root canals re-done on the 4 front teeth and put new crowns on them. >>
This would have been a crazy thing to do and a total waste of your money.

<<I had a trusted endodontist at that time and went to him to question this course of action. He did not recommend at all doing this as the teeth had been treated so long ago and would be fragile and likely break if redoing root canals plus not knowing the material used originally would make removal uncertain. He did mention I was most fortunate to have kept the teeth so long and it was helped by my good health.>>
This endodontist was wise to tell you not to retreat these teeth because he knew they were not healthy and it was just a matter of time before they were going to have to come out. He was kind enough not to take your money for wasted dental treatment.

My suggestions for anyone who is concerned about their teeth and their overall well being is to maintain a nutritious diet, low in sugar and complex carbs, high in good fats and good protein sources, drink lots of good filtered water every day, supplement properly with qualtity vitamins, exercise reguarly and think positive thoughts! And, daily meditation and/or yoga helps to balance our inner body with the outer one.............

Thank you for bringing your story to us. I hope you have been enlighted on some issues and will keep us posted on the progression of your dental implants!

Take care.....
Bryanna

Hi Bryanna:
Thank you so much for all your suggestions I will keep you posted and hope for a successful outcome with these implants. It will be most prudent to wait a good long time before proceeding to have crowns placed.
Very best wishes,
Judith C.

June 21 2009
Dear Bryanna:
Just to let you know that the implants seem to have settled in well and the dentist is proceeding with loading the final teeth - at last.
It has been a strange adventure with the awful salty tingly effect during the time of the temporary partial. I did not always wear it when out if not expecting to see anyone I knew - of course I did sometimes and horrified people if I smiled and forgot to cover my mouth. Then a bridge was provided which was either not cemented enough and very loose and flew across the room if I sneezed or was cemented to much and had to be cut apart to get off - YIKES it does not feel good to have the dentist struggle to get it out with pliers! After it was mended and reinstalled it broke apart in my sleep and half was (thankfully) discovered in the bed sheets. The good thing about the bridge is that the dentist used different abutments and the salty tingly effect was gone - BONUS.
One more hurdle is that I now will be having gum tissue graft over a couple of the teeth and hope this will be less horrible than the extraction and implant placement. Of course I am not looking forward to this additional proceedure but am told it is necessary for the longterm health of the area around one of the implants where extensive gum work was done at the time of placement.
Once the teeth are loaded I will report back.
One thing I do notice is that the implants/bridge seem very stiff and solid compared with natural teeth, not that one feels them moving but they do not feel as cement like as the implants. Perhaps when the teeth are loaded they will feel a bit more natural.
I hope our exchange of correspondence may be useful for others going through this work.
Thanks so much for your advice and help
Judith C

Hi Judith C,
Thanks for reporting back with good news! Glad to hear things are going ok.

I have a question...... Is the dentist placing tissue grafts over your natural teeth or exposed parts from the implants? Are the threads of the implant exposed through the gum tissue?

You made this statement...<<<One thing I do notice is that the implants/bridge seem very stiff and solid compared with natural teeth, not that one feels them moving but they do not feel as cement like as the implants. Perhaps when the teeth are loaded they will feel a bit more natural.>>>>
Dental implants are rigid and do not have any flexibility. Natural teeth are held in the jawbone by a (periodontal) ligament which allows some flexibility as our teeth mesh together to chew. The ligament is removed when the teeth are removed. The implants will have a more rigid, stiffer feel when you chew...... even after the crowns or bridges are put on them. Most people adapt to that different feel pretty quickly.

Ok Judith C....... please keep us posted!

Bryanna ~'.'~