Hi Bryanna:

If there were an icon for cautiously optimistic, I'd use it! Keep your fingers crossed for me! I've had my hopes dashed 6x, thus the cautious part.

I'm really glad to hear it's not too late to save the crown if nec. Really worried abt that! Even avoided using them acc., esp #s 8+9.
The thing I heard prev was it may break trying to remove it; however for whatever reason they are all still a bit loose, esp #8. I w/have him address the bite on that one. He did say that was probably the reason for them being loose while they should not be.
(Can NOT go back to Dr H even for that:-(( Just can't!)

Bearing in mind my history, IF Dr T does not wk out, how long do I have to save these crown(s) if nec? Meanwhile, I'm going to HOPE for the BEST and keep the plan for the worst on the back burner!

No, I was not planning to tell Dr T anything abt the Board unless he asks. Minimal negativity as much as poss other than the obvious facts which are as they are.

I did get the impressn he was willing to wk w/what I have to the pt he is able. I sure hope so. I am afraid to keep what I have but equally afraid of going thru more procedures and further jeopardize my health. "Least invasive."

"Buy the best you can afford" and "you get what you pay for" now comes to mind. I WISH I HAD KNOWN WHAT I KNOW NOW! Hopefully it's not too late altogether, & I can salvage some health issues. May never know the extent! I would NEVER knowingly have jeopardized my health. It's never worth that.

There must be a way for people tb well info'd w/o having to find out the hard way! I'm starting to think congressman, etc.

I SO appreciate the info on materials, and how they can factor in. I had no idea they could affect my health so much; it was always presented to me as a sales pitch any time prev, and by Sales Staff--on commission.

Have already asked Dr T if a gunshy pt is w/in his realm of comfort after a short talk w/him, and email fwd'd to him from Birnbach. Dr T says he understands; and it's OK if I have questions, etc. YES!!! (Isn't that the way it should be? I have to say, that's now a MUST criteria for me. If a DDS isn't willing to talk and listen to me, forget it!)

Part of me can't believe I'm seeing a DDS gotten via online. On the other hand, you're right. What DO I have to lose?

I can't tell you how VERY THANKFUL I AM for all your time, patience and assistance.

W/keep U posted.

THANKS AGAIN!
NAM

PS: On a totally unrel issue, I am an animal lover. We have 5 cats. Just found out we are able to place an abandoned foreclosure dog to a great hm.
Means things are looking up, yes?!
Can but hope:-)
No Jinxes!
>^..^<


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Hey NAM,

I think you will have to wait and see what he sees on the new radiographs compared to the ones you give him. There could be a number of reasons why those crowns are lose and hopefully the remedy will quick and easy. Yes, the integrity of the porcelain and sometimes the substructure can be damaged when removing the crowns. But the only way to determine what is under them is to remove them because xrays cannot penetrate the metal. However, try not to dwell on that issue now. He will evaluate other criteria before he contemplates removing them...... if at all.

I would give him alot of time to quietly focus on the health of the teeth and bone both clinically and radiographically, and the size, shape and fit of the crowns so he can offer you his unbiased opinion and treatment options. He will be curious about your history but can only treat you in the present. He will be aware of your responses to his questions and this will be his guide to what you are looking to achieve. He knows you want to keep your existing crowns, but if he thinks you should have them changed but may not be receptive to that idea, he just may not suggest it. Do you know what I mean??

The average person has NO clue what their dentist is doing to them or what he is using in their mouth. Just being in the dental chair brings on so much vulnerability and fear that most people are thinking...... I don't care what you do just get it done and let me the hell out of here!! Right???? Everyone is nodding their head right now...........
I wish there was a way to change that.............. perhaps informing patients of the procedures and their options (prior to treatment) in some logical detail would help??

Keep us posted.........
Bryanna




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Hi Bryanna
Well, $%^&!!!
Saw Dr. T yest.
Went in w/agenda of 1-3:
1. Immed goal to even #s 8+9 @ gum line; adj bite on #8 as loosest crown.
2. Intermed goal to address #11's error; + poss bridges.
3. LT goal to balance dental and medical health.
Gave medical and dental HX.
He knew I wanted to keep what I had if poss, and he mentioned that up front.
His demeanor was very understanding and patient.

His immed and consistent DX: BITE issues.
Bottom line, he wants FMReconstructn; est cost 50K!
He wants to rewk every single tooth.
He wants implants.
(When I reminded him of medical status, he said bridges poss due to DM uncontrolled).
He wants an 11th gingivectomy.
He wants orthotics, an appliance tb worn over 12 mos.
(This is to "retrain" the jaw to allow for nec space.)
He wants temps again, tb worn "over an extended time."
He doesn't like the way these crowns fit.
(Neither do I.)

He wants a perio involved w/this yet ADD'L gingivectomy. When I mentioned reluctance due to past 10! he said the 11th was OK if done right.
He says Dr. H did PFM crowns because she knew ceramics would break, not because of matching bridge material as I was told.
He said crowns w/continue to break until bite issues fixed.
He recommended no gum graft fix by Dr G to #11.
He said this would take 12-18 mos total to fix w/FMR.

He also said there is in fact an infection above 8+9. He said it would continue due to impingemt/orthodontics until FMR done.
When I adv him Dr H had found no infection, he asked if the gums bled. (Yes). To him that meant infection. (If so, it's been present for 3 years.)
???????????
While he put down no one, w/regards to the infection he said "people do with what they know."
He said he would have asked prev DDSs did they not expect bite issues to remain the crux of the prob.

He said my gums are the worst he's seen in 30 yrs. I find that a bit hard to fathom. You should have seen them 3 mos ago! They are probably improved 85%.

He feels the prob originated w/crowns vs natural teeth. I disagree. It originated AFTER gingivectomies began, (esp the repeats) and AFTER 8+9's ORIGINAL crowns were removed to begin gingivectomies. I don't recall the amt of time involved in bt (abt a yr?), but I also don't recall any inflammation. The gingivectomies were then done together for the higher line of 7-10. Crowns 8+9 were then redone together w/7+10. Dr T remained steadfast regarding crowns being the prob. Not sure he understood timeline there.

He also said... not to impress you, but people come here from all over the world to have complex cases fixed...

This may well be the case. There did not seem tb any pressure or any hurry. He did the consult and 2 xrays @NC. Said to let him know if I was willing to commit to time and effort involved.

OK. I don't have 50K. I can't work, + my husband is disabled. (Has a brain inj.) Unless this is going to save my life, I can't see going into debt, or considerably depleting his 401K for this expense.

I don't want more surger(IES):-((((( I don't want bone graft(s). I don't want to wear temps again that would then total 4 years! on + off, mostly on. I don't want dentures!

One presumes the orthodontic issues I've had for yrs would remain if I got dentures. Is this what I'm left w/for choices?

I don't know the extent of the infection. I am presently most concerned abt that. Mild perio disease can = infection the way I understand it. He says this can not be treated any other way but FMR.

He did not want to adjust either #8 or #9, and I am afraid to eat w/these teeth. He said all crowns would be loose until FMR regardless.

I know this may well be beyond your expertise at this pt. It's certainly beyond mine. However, I am LOST. Whatever is a person to do??? Do I have any options left?

Any suggestions you have are welcome.
Thanks.
NAM



[/quote]

Nami, I just had to respond. WOW, you are talking about $50,000.00 The situation is just so unreal

Take care and I hope you get to the bottom of this.

Hi NAM,

My first reaction is the same as yours........ $%^&!!!

However, as I suspected you have many dental issues going on that are complicating your immediate concerns to rectify #8 and 9. Do I agree with his FMR...... not necessarily, but I do understand where he is coming from.

I am in a time crunch right now and I want to sit down and go over your post better so I will have to get back to you in a day or two. In the meantime, please take a deep breath and lets see if we can sort through this a little better.

By any chance can you scan or download the xrays of #'s 7 through 10 on this website? A photo of those areas of your gumline would be very helpful too. Of course, block out your face from your lip up. Some people send me these things on my PM instead of in this general forum which is ok. If you don't want to do this I understand, but it is very hard for me to give you more of my opinion without seeing what it looks like radiographically and physically. It's up to you...... I'm just trying to help you as much as I can. I promise not to use your information for any other purpose other than to help you on this site.

Again, I know this is very alarming. Please try to stay calm and positive.

Bryanna




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Hi Bryanna,
Thanks so much for the heads up. I REALLY APPRECIATE the time you are taking for me SO MUCH!!!

Taking that deep breath. It's not like I have to decide this yest., so no huge rush.

$%^&!!! keeps coming back to me when I recall all the invasive procedure talk. Think I can understand where Dr T's coming from too, but ... $%^&!!!

However! Bill Clinton once said his mom taught him to keep things in boxes w/in his head; and open/close them when the time was right. That's what I'm trying to do. Opening the Calm box now. (Keep having to close that overflowing PIA (Pain in the Axx) Dental box!) Can't let it run my life.

Meanwhile...
Yes, I think I can fwd xrays to you. I don't know how to do it on this site; however, if I can get Dr H's ofc to email them to me I can fwd them to you on your either this site or PM (Personal Msg?) ...I'll give it a try... I'm better at email than dnloading, attachmts etc. if that's an opt. I know email lasts forever, but! Tried attachmt managemt but pics take a lot of room, and forever to dnld on my older comp. May need to borrow one PRN. I'll try that 1st for pics.

The last photo I have is directly prior to crown placemt. It doesn't show my face, altho' not too worried abt privacy at this pt at least for pics! When I can get a current pic I w/fwd it as well. These 2 would show before + after 02/09. Fortunately I had foresight to document by photos.

AGAIN, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME!!!
Helps a bunch to have someone to talk to.

Thanks so much!!!
NAM

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