[Lara]

New Doubts About Role of Serotonin in Depression
http://psychcentral.com/news/2015/07...ion/86925.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/292713.php
Medical News Today
Low serotonin is mythical cause of depression

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25625874
Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2015 Apr;51:164-88. doi: 10.1016/j.neubiorev.2015.01.018. Epub 2015 Jan 24.
Is serotonin an upper or a downer? The evolution of the serotonergic system and its role in depression and the antidepressant response.

[DejaVu]

Thanks, Lara!

The articles are informative.
The facts are disheartening.

Where do we go from here in successfully helping people through severe depressions?

A pill should never be the whole answer, or the sole response to depression. However, if a pill is involved, let's hope it's correctly aimed at a target which will truly help!

As a society, as families/friends, we need to take an interest in one another's well-being, on all levels -- physical, mental, spiritual.

I had seen a documentary on how Indian tribes had dealt with PTSD in their "warriors," for instance. The returning traumatized warrior was surrounded by the tribe at an evening fire circle. The tribe danced around the warrior for many hours, until dawn if necessary, to help the traumatized warrior feel a sense of connection with, and love and acceptance from, his tribe. These types of rituals demanded tribal interest, tribal action, tribal devotion to the well-being of every tribal member. The tribal members did not just momentarily hug a traumatized member, or simply send the member a card. The whole tribe devoted time and energy to the warriors recovery. This validated the warrior and his experience -- and also healed him. The tribe did not wait a week or a month to attend to the warrior. The tribe participated in this ceremony on the very first night of knowing the warrior had bee traumatized. This healing ceremony was a very high priority for the entire tribe.

Wow. We could learn something from the many wise tribal traditions.

To Our Healing!

DejaVu

[bluesfan]

Thanks for these articles Lara - useful info yet again

It doesn't surprise me that Serotonin may not be the main indicator of depression. When I was diagnosed with Addison's Disease (adrenal insufficiency) 5+ years ago one of the interesting things I found after starting on replacement dose hydrocortisone (ie: I have to manually replace the cortisol which my body no longer naturally produces) was that too low cortisol levels would produce 'instant' depression. It's noticeable to the point that if you wanted me to be depressed at 9am tomorrow morning just by altering the schedule of the dose I could 'arrange' that. Conversely within 15 mins of taking the dose the depression will be gone. I often wake in the early hours of the morning (ie: low cortisol) in a very maudlin state (I fight the urge to vent here when I'm like that as I know it's temporary).

This may not be the same as the chronic depression that many suffer and I don't mean to make light of the seriousness of any type of depression. I have also experienced the on-going depression that results from frustration with chronic illness, dealing with bureaucracy and inefficient healthcare systems.
IMO 'depression' is such a generalized term, that is too often misused and misunderstood, that it should come with a caveat. More clarity and definition needs to be communicated about depression, by both the medical depression and the media.

I've previously searched for info on a link between cortisol and depression and there is some research out there - sorry I don 't have any references to hand but googling it should turn up something for anyone interested.

There I've had my little rant for the day - thanks for indulging me in reading this - I'd be interested in anyone else thoughts on this.

[EnglishDave]

Hi bluesfan,

Thank you for the insight regarding your Addison's and how the cortisol levels affect your mood so precisely and predictably.

I also agree about the generalised use of the term 'Depression' and the way it is misunderstood and misused across all walks of life. This is why I always point out that I have a life-long, inbuilt Depressive Personality Disorder, my 'Normal' is a generalised severe Depression and I have fluctuated around that due to meds success (ups) and illnesses, pain and personal failure (downs) since childhood. Personal success, happy events do not change my Mood for anything but the briefest of moments - that is the Pessimistic side of my condition biting.

As you have come to control your feelings and not vent, so I have had an upbringing and a lifetime of being told to 'bottle it up' and not share. 7 months here and I am now somewhat comfortable sharing. Sometimes it is good to let it all flow out in one vast tidal wave.

Dave.

PS. Lara, thanks for not mentioning the Lord's slaughter.

[Lara]

Originally Posted by EnglishDave

PS. Lara, thanks for not mentioning the Lord's slaughter.

ahhh Cricket.
I took a double take on that line.

Doesn't matter who wins or loses, it's that they play fairly that is important. I say that a lot. So much rudeness in sport of late. Just awful. Some of them Australian too. It's not on!

[Lara]

Hi bluesfan,
Thanks for your post. Interesting about the Cortisol. There have been a lot of studies on the role of the Cortisol rhythm in Autism over recent years that I've read as well.
I've also known a lot of people who were treated with medications for "depression" who turned out to have thyroid problems. I asked a doctor friend about that once years ago and he told me that they didn't routinely test for thyroid dysfunction back then. These days I notice the GPs seem to add it on to more routine tests. Maybe they weren't covered by our medicare back then I don't know for sure.

There was another article I posted recently on Anxiety Forum regarding serotonin as well.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post1149139-1.html

I think "depression" is an umbrella term that can be an easy target for the prescription of certain medications without delving further into the individual health of the patient. I mean to say, so many of have problems with low B12 and Vit D etc., as well.

I am reminded of the little video you sent me about that doctor in Tasmania who seemed to have such an amazing grasp on patients as unique people who can't all be treated the same. I wish there were more like him.

Oh, it's all so complex isn't it.

[DejaVu]

Years ago, at least in some settings, psychiatrists had ordered some tests (at least labs, if not more) before prescribing or while prescribing. These tests would, hopefully, detect hypothyroidism, issues with cortisol, anemia and other conditions which might cause, or add to, a depression and/or anxiety. If indicated, psychiatrists had also ordered ECGs and EEGs, neuro. consults, etc.

More recently, as I talk with people starting psychiatric care, or under psychiatric care, I am dismayed when they tell me neither their GP/PCP nor their treating psychiatrist has done even basic lab work before, or in addition to, initiating treatments. I find this is also reported, often, with people consulting with the psychiatrists highly specialized in the use of meds, "psychopharmacologists."

Very disconcerting.

If you are feeling depressed, and have not had related testing, please advocate for yourself and tell your treating psychiatrist you want other conditions investigated/ruled-out. A competent psychiatrist will either initiate the related testing or will refer you to someone able to order/oversee the testing/consults. Some psychiatrists will, with your expressed permission (via a written HIPPA release in the U.S.), coordinate testing and consults through your GP/PCP.

Group hug!
DejaVu