NeuroTalk Support Groups - I've been saying something about B12 a bit wrong -

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- - I've been saying something about B12 a bit wrong - (https://www.neurotalk.org/general-health-conditions-and-rare-disorders/28587-ive-saying-b12-bit-wrong.html)

I did not suggest that people take less B12

What I suggested is that it is almost surely better for people to take the daily dose of the best form of B12 (methylcobalamin) rather than a daily dose of the least efficient form (cyanocobalamin).

rose

Karen's point about other nutrients is an important one. It has been mentioned many times, but it is worth mentioning again.

When one is low in B12, and that person begins to get the B12 they need, if they are also low in one or more other nutrients and the body begins drawing heavily on those nutrients to make repairs, there can be additional or worsening even beyond that of the common process of healing.

Iron and potassium are two frequently drawn upon heavily, but others are important too.

rose

karen,

click on the actual picture that mcharris posted. they will open on another screen larger than the thumbnail pictures that were posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious (Post 150995)

karen,

click on the actual picture that mcharris posted. they will open on another screen larger than the thumbnail pictures that were posted.

Oh, silly me! I never even thought of that. I was going to take them to my computer and use my photo program to enlarge them, but I didn't have time.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcharris (Post 150872)

I have been reading all the posts about B12 deficiency....... and wondered if you could point me to a website/reference that shows moons and ridges are damaged/missing with B12 deficiency? I have pictures of my thumbs and fingers if anyone can 'read' them.

Also I am curious if anyone has had Hcy and MMA testing done? I truly believe that I may well be seriously B12 deficient even with a reading of 500+

I have given myself a B12 injection .... one every other day (3 in all) these last few days but seem to get worse symptoms after each injection. Symptoms like a sore tongue, extreme chilling coldness, headache, pounding in my chest........ this is most frightening. Anyone care to speculate?

Thanks for listening.

Clare in Tasmania

Well, thanks to Curious I was able to see your fingernails quite clearly.

Yes, you don't have moons on any fingers but your thumbs, except maybe there was the tiniest one on another finger, it was hard to tell, and is hard to tell even in real life.

My moons will be coming back, then if there is a lot of stress they will disappear again. (Right now mine are not flourishing.)

The other thing I notice in your images, is the very bright/dark coloring at the top of your nails... My nails were very much like that when I had the intense fatigue and pretty intense pain in my left arm.

Sadly I did a bad job of showing the changes because a part of that time I didn't have electric and it was really hard to charge my camera or use my computer.

But, when I look at my nails now, they are no longer like that, so I think all the additional rest and B12 helped. I'm not having the pain in my left arm any more, nor is my chin feeling as if it is cramping.

If you can rest, seriously rest, like stay in bed and read or watch telly, I think it would be best if you do that as well as supplement.

I sure hope you post that you are feeling better.

I just went back to your images, looking at them the way that Curious suggested, and I see that you do have ridges. Your ridges aren't as bad as mine were when I first began to wonder if they had something to do with how bad I was feeling, both physically and psychologically.

I'm worried about your chest pain. When I had that I went to the doctor several times, and they did heart tests that showed nothing wrong.

I know that being scared tends to make our hearts pound harder. But the thing is that even former President Clinton had all sorts of heart tests done, that presumably showed nothing, just before he had the major episode that resulted in heart surgery. So I'm not sure the tests are altogether useful.

I would say you had better rest, though. It took my problems like that quite a long time to go away this summer. I sure wish I'd had electric and had recorded pictures of my nails the whole time.

The B12 question is a difficult one I reckon.
I hope you will bear with me whilst I meander thru these thoughts of mine:
:D Firstly it seems (at least here in Ozzy Land) that unless you actually meet the said criteria.... given by the medics and government for a specific ailment/disease/disorder, then you are NOT sick and are probably a hypochondriac. So if you get a blood test done say for B12 and Folate and the test results come back in the 'normal range' - whatever happens to be the normal range for your country, then you obviously do not have a deficiency or a problem with either B12 or Folate..... end of subject! 'go home after you sign the medicare form'.... byeeeeeeeee

I have gently twisted my GP's arm and asked for blood tests for Homocystein (?spelling) and Methylmalonic acid (MMA) as I have read extensively that these two are better markers for B12 insufficiency. My Gp humoured me and ordered the tests, but did advise me that I would probably have to pay for them myself as the government did not consider them essential or necessary. Time will tell if I receive an account and have to pay privately for them, so be it as I WANT the numbers for reference.

As of today - six days since the blood draw, the test results are not yet back - I was told that Hcy takes about a week to come back. I have a GP appointment booked for tomorrow.... fingers crossed results available for discussion.

Now for some background on your's truly:

I have been sick for seven years, probbably much longer.
In 2000 I was bitten by a necrotic spider........ no action taken other than to debride the bite area and allow it to heal. My Darling Hubbie tends to want to place/blame my down turn in health to this point in time.

I however, with the wonderful gift of hindsight, and the amazing resources of the internet have discovered much written about the Proton Pump Inhibitor's (PPI's), stomach acid insufficiency and B12 deficiency. There is also the question of wether PPI's damage the Paretial cells in the stomach endangering the production of Intrinsic Factor (IF).

Having said all that....... let me put this in context.

I had an ulcer in the stomack back in the mid 1980's .... long before they were talking about Helicobacter pylori bacterium. I cannot remember what the Doc prescribed but I took it for a considerable time. However since that time - OVER 20 years now.... off and on ..... MORE ON than off, I have been taking medications to reduce stomach acid. I do also have a small hiatial hernia.

For at least 6 years I have been taking a drug called SOMAC. I have tried umpteen times over the years to come off this drug without success. A few days without taking it and the acid is rising nastily in my esophagus.

Me feels that perhaps I am deplete in B12 because of the years I have been TAKING ACID REDUCING MEDICATIONS. Seems a feasable proposition to me. But who am I to make discerning statements like this?

Doc's just hate it when you point things like this out to them!

Wish me luck coz I am going to attempt to show this to my GP tomorrow. Hopefully the blood work results will be back and will be available to back up my hypothesis.

There is so much more I could write but it would not be fair to publish :wink: a book on my health problems here, when I am such a new member. I will write more as time progresses. The symptoms are nasty and progressive BUT not yet diagnosed..... 'would you like to see a psychiatrist' I was asked at my last neuroligists appointment!

Thank you for replying to my inquiry.

Have a Great Day

McHarris aka Clare in Tassie :grouphug:

Hello - I have been reading various posts on Methyl B-12. I do not have a deficiency. I do have severe DPN. Is this something that could be useful regardless of whether there is a deficiency? 1000 mcg or 5000 mcg daily?
Is it safe to take with prescription meds?

Thanks!

Cheryl

Clare,

That's the way it is here too, because most doctors are decades behind on this issue (understandable for some, because so many medical references haven't been updated on it as they should have been).

Those two tests are good (if you haven't taken B12), much better than the B12 test, but not 100%.

Regardless of what they show regarding B12, the homocysteine (spelled somewhat differently some places) will be good for you to have. You want to aim for the lower half of the normal range.

Sounds likely that you have more than one thing going on, but a very important root of much or all could be insufficient stomach acid. In fact, many doctors still give people stomach acid reducers when they don't have enough acid.

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. With or without stomach-acid reducers, the stomach eventually atrophies to some degree (some early and badly, some much later). This can contribute to many problems, including overgrowth of bacteria, malabsorption of B12 (and possibly iron and calcium), and too many other things to try to mention. Stomach acid is protective and helpful in many ways.

The chicken and egg thing comes in with: what happened first, the low acid or a condition such as B12 deficiency that may have contributed to the problem.

Probably in most cases low acid.

Low stomach acid can also cause stomach contents to back up into the esophogus. And stomach contents are unpleasant and damaging there whether low in acid or not.

I would do a lot of reading on the vitamin (nutrient) forum, and at the very least I would take any kind of B12 I could get (not timed release or delayed release) in a 2000 mcg per day dose. It's inexpensive and safe. And if you need it it is very important.

rose

Cheryl,

Methylcobalamin has been shown helpful to a percentage of people who have problems and cannot be shown B12 deficient, even with proper testing.

Yes, I would take the 5000 mcg and hope. If it is doesn't help directly, at least it won't hurt, and having a good store of B12 is a very good thing for the body.

Many things can interfere with B12 absorption, but I have never seen anything indicating that B12 interferes with meds, etc.

I'm very bad at acronyms :o. DPN?

rose

Hi Clare,
Your gift of hindsight will do you well, you sure mention some things that suggest you could be low on B12.

I for sure understand what you are saying about how a country's "low" dictates whether or not a person is viewed as having a deficiency. I have an article on my site about how the low for B12 in Japan and some other countries is 550. That's hundreds of points higher than here in the U.S.

If I were you I'd get Methycobalamin lozenges, or the hydroxy form that people on different forums here have said is available at your chemist.

I'd do that no matter what the doctors say.

:)