[melon]

About 10 years ago I had treatment with lidocaine ( injections ) for joints that were bad and within the space of few months started developing terrible problems that went from gasritis into neuropathy - or at least what I thought was neuropathy i.e. because the things I took to heal it were also recommended for peripheral neuropathy.

Tonight for the first time since then I decided I would put my conciousness to rest and see what if any effect simply using some lidocaine spray would have - not that I was expecting anything to happen given it was a spray but I was curious nonetheless given I'd been too scared to try before.

Well, I can tell you I only used one pump of the spray on my finger inside my mouth and within 30 seconds my feet and legs are crawling with the very same symptoms and pain that I started experincing 10 years ago.

Now although this sounds almost identical to PN from what I've read ( aside form nervousness ) which I dont feel , the lidocaine , if anything , should help someone if suffering from PN and as result now Im left wondering ( because I dont read any accounts of lidocaine doing this ) what kind of problem could cause this effect ?

If any one has any ideas or suggestions Id really be grateful for your response as I've been looking for some sign / connection to what this could be for years and any help would be more than appreciated.

thank again.

matt

[mrsD]

of the product you used?

[melon]

Originally Posted by mrsD

of the product you used?

Hi,

Its just sold as Xylocaine spray ( 10 mg ) here in the uk by AstraZeneca, though from what I can see it was manufactured in Sweden .

[mrsD]

Lidocaine for the mouth is RX only.
We have a topical spray for the skin at 4% OTC but it cannot
be used in the mouth/mucous membranes because of the inert ingredients.

If your spray was designed for oral use, I doubt it is causing
paresthesias for you.

Some people can be allergic to lidocaine (and other --caine type anesthetics) but that is not common.
http://content.karger.com/produktedb...M2004208002109
There are warnings on benzocaine type oral products for children, since they seem most likely to react.

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/articl...02A0571727.php

When people feel "nervous" after an injection that is usually because of the epinephrine that is added to it, to make it last longer (dental).

However, all people are unique. You could just be having an idiosyncratic reaction. The amount of lidocaine from one
small application is very small and a typical allergy would affect other places on the body, not just one location.

You may also be very suggestible...so that if you expected a reaction, your mind created one. Don't underestimate this.
When drug studies are done, often people are weeded out in the beginning, when all subjects get the placebo for a short time. If people react strongly to the placebo they are dropped from the study before the drug is even given! This is controversial but used often for antidepressants trials and other psyche medications.

[melon]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Lidocaine for the mouth is RX only.
We have a topical spray for the skin at 4% OTC but it cannot
be used in the mouth/mucous membranes because of the inert ingredients.

If your spray was designed for oral use, I doubt it is causing
paresthesias for you.

It is oral and yes it did affect me feet / legs - its cleared up now but I only took one spray .

Originally Posted by mrsD

Some people can be allergic to lidocaine (and other --caine type anesthetics) but that is not common.

There are warnings on benzocaine type oral products for children, since they seem most likely to react.

I've had other anesthetics though ,even using the same treatment as before , but had no problems.

Originally Posted by mrsD

When people feel "nervous" after an injection that is usually because of the epinephrine that is added to it, to make it last longer (dental).

However, all people are unique. You could just be having an idiosyncratic reaction. The amount of lidocaine from one
small application is very small and a typical allergy would affect other places on the body, not just one location.

You may also be very suggestible...so that if you expected a reaction, your mind created one. Don't underestimate this.
When drug studies are done, often people are weeded out in the beginning, when all subjects get the placebo for a short time. If people react strongly to the placebo they are dropped from the study before the drug is even given! This is controversial but used often for antidepressants trials and other psyche medications.

Aside from tightening up my jaw palate and making it feel stiffer I did not feel anything else at all , nothing like crawling I felt in my legs / feet .

It could be Im suggestible , but at the same time I already have more than enough problems to even entertain the idea of making pre-existing problems worse i.e. through tempting fate as it were.

As it stands ,there has been many times over the years I've researched and wanted things to work after putting a lot of effort in only to repeatedly fail , so if it was placebo as you suggest , then why only work now - esp for the opposite effect of what I was looking for then ?

thanks again for your reply

m

[mrsD]

remember pain. There are actually pain "loops" recorded there.

One example is phantom limb pain after amputation.
Another is chronic headache.

I don't doubt you felt something in your legs, but the CAUSE of it remains puzzling.

[melon]

Originally Posted by mrsD

remember pain. There are actually pain "loops" recorded there.

One example is phantom limb pain after amputation.
Another is chronic headache.

I don't doubt you felt something in your legs, but the CAUSE of it remains puzzling.

Yes but its never happened before in circumstances when there was more doubt and oppourtunity for it too so I suppose why it would happen with the very solution I was injected with again after all these years and not from the treatment that caused it, or something else ?

I would really like to get this investigated if I had any ideas on how to go about it and what it was / might be.

m

[mrsD]

for how long a time period you felt these sensations?

Just at the beginning, or did they last for many minutes or an hour?

Often when one applies a lidocaine or benzocaine topical, there is a temporary sting....then the numbness.

When I put the Lidoderm patches that I use sometimes for nerve pain, for PN, I get extreme cold, and then a temporary discomfort, then nothing. Then they start to work within an hour.

When I put Benzocaine on a cold sore in the mouth, it will throb like the dickens when it wears off. So sometimes the nerves get over stimulated or irritated. But I doubt the effect you are having is an allergy. You'd get some local effect in the mouth, if it were.

I guess it will remain a puzzle until you find an answer.

[melon]

Originally Posted by mrsD

for how long a time period you felt these sensations?

Just at the beginning, or did they last for many minutes or an hour?

No , I still have some slight effects today with slight prickly sensations, even after taking my supplements .

Its not painful - more uncomfortable I would say but its still there .

When it used to be bad 10 yrs ago I would often hear this distincitve sound like humm , like you would almost electric generator but more subtle - I never really mentioned it before because it sounds bit strange I suppose, but now that I've rexperined it again it feels / sounds quite distinct sort of similiar to what happens if you cover your ears, a very low resonance.

m

[ConsiderThis]

Originally Posted by tepol

No , I still have some slight effects today with slight prickly sensations, even after taking my supplements .

Its not painful - more uncomfortable I would say but its still there .

When it used to be bad 10 yrs ago I would often hear this distincitve sound like humm , like you would almost electric generator but more subtle - I never really mentioned it before because it sounds bit strange I suppose, but now that I've rexperined it again it feels / sounds quite distinct sort of similiar to what happens if you cover your ears, a very low resonance.

m

You may be allergic to it. The symptoms you describe are similar to those I get when I'm low on B12. My B12 levels go down when I'm under stress, and allergies are stressful, at least for me.

Some years ago I was in a very stressful situation and within an hour I had symptoms of low B12, when I had a test shortly thereafter my level had gone down 250 or 300 points, I forget exactly, but it was hundreds.

I use methylcobalamin now, because under stress it's easy to use more of the lozenges. B12 shots were highly effective but giving myself shots every day got really REALLY old.