Pam, a practical tip from someone who's been there...

When I de-cluttered my life in 2005, I sold my koi for a ridiculously low price. Not free, but 1/15th of what they would be worth. That way you know it's folks who really want them.

If they are serious they will come over, catch them, put them in plastic bags with oxygen, and at least you'll get a bit of money. (!)

Best would be to join a koi forum (local or not), post a pic of pond/fish, explain you need to move/whatever other reason you want to put, and put a low price or ask for a best bid. There will be serious enthusiasts - often people who just had to rebuild their pond or had a calamity/disease that wiped out their population, and would JUMP at such an opportunity.

That was what happened in my case; a nice couple from Amsterdam came all the way with a van, big plastic bags, a baby washing tub (I know...) to make it easier to put them in the bags with a bit of water, and a big oxygen tank so they would not suffer on the 2 hour trip back. (oh, and yes, they all made it without issues and most are still alive even today)

FWIW I sold them for $1000 - they were worth about 15 to 20k. All depends on how many, how they look etc, but if you can catch say 500 quid, why not?!

Pond will not really smell all that much normally if it has been filtered and cleaned properly. Even if it would, after a few rains that will be gone.

A small pond is still a lot of work. Think carefully if you want that. In fact, small ponds get dirtier quicker (think about it! less water volume, so every bit of "debris" takes up more space percentage wise). I would advise letting it fill.

Ask around for a construction company who needs to unload their stuff. Doesn't really matter if there are rocks in the sand, right? I'm sure you can get that done for free. Put a small layer of top soil, some grass or whatever over it: done.

See pics to give you an idea.

PS: I did never fill in the pond though. Just kept small goldfish in them, no filtering. In the last 5 years I started again, but small, 5 big guys max. And yeah, that still takes 2 hours/week to properly maintain/debug etc. So in your case you should probably go the whole way.

PS2: last pic are the buyers, like I said, great folks, they were happy as can be!

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How many Koi did they take? I think I have about 30 or more. No rains for a few months now, summer has arrived... days and days of 30 plus for the next 3 months.

I’ve attached photos of the pond, or what you can see if the pond to give an idea of the size, the deck the dogs are sitting on (Bronson and Bono) that covers 1/2 of it, so in essence it stretches from one side of the yard about 1. To 1.5 meter in from each fence and is about 4 meters wide under the deck and 2-3 meters wide in the exposed but. A jolly big pond... you can just see the bottom of the waterfall. Can’t find a photo with the fish, I know I’ve got some but can’t see for looking... The front view of the pond has got my Holly and our Abyssinian Penne.

Could I keep small goldfish in the smaller mould? Or maybe no blinking fish then I don’t have to worry ?

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You could keep small goldfish (well, they get to about 15cm and 25 years old) without needing filtration. No fish is a no-no as you then just built yourself a giant mosquito breeding place (!) And as you'd have almost no debris from big fish, you could leave the pond the size it is now! Just stop the whole filtration system. And don't worry about algae/pond turning green for a while: the fish love it. You wouldn't even have to feed them, they'll find their own food without any problems.

You'd still ideally have to put a net over the pond in fall (dunno if you have many leaves whirling around - they do sink and make a mess/produce methane etc on the bottom).

I had my pond going without filtration or skimmer for 5 years without any problem, with about 10 goldfish (don't take golden orfes, they get very big as well.)

Nets are cheap, and only need to be put/removed once a year.

It looks great, so maybe reconsider and indeed go "small fry"?

I gave away about 17 fish IIRC.

On a nice day you can always try to spend a few hours on your deck, feed them a few pellets at the time, and take pics when they come up. That way it's easier for others to see what types etc. you have.

Another way is throwing a half orange (peel & all) in the pond: they will play with it and eat from it (and it's healthy LOL). Again a good way to take a few snapshots.

If you love the layout, and don't mind just having a very few small fish, the least work would be a) sell the biguns b) feed pump directly to the waterfall (skip filtration system). A possible c) is - if already installed - keep a skimmer going, and empty that every week or so. Usually that's a small basket which will contain leaves. Not heavy, 5 minute job.

The BIG JOB usually is to clean out the filter. I don't know if it's brushes or mats or a combination etc, but it's literally a sh***ty job and even breaks my back. But with no big fish, there is nothing to filter, the volume is more than needed to keep "self-sustaining" (maybe add a few iris?/other marginal plants) so the little ones will be happy as ... erm... fish in the water. (sorry. )

30 grown koi produce a huge amount of crud. Remove them and your pond will stay just fine without "big maintenance". Done it, have T-shirt, it works (my pond is about 30,000 liters).

With that solution you would a) get money b) keep nice pond c) have little to no work. I dunno, take your time to think it over? Making it smaller would make it less healthy for the small fish (!)...

PS: I know a bit about types of koi, but not enough to "value" them properly. But for example, say, if you have a 50cm white one with only a red dot on its head then, yeah, that one may well be worth 4K or more... So don't be a thief of your own wallet either.

Edit: I now see the pond was made using a liner (probably Firestone), so it is possible to "make it smaller" without having to buy anything at all. Just sell fish, drain, (doesn't have to be totally drained), peel back liner towards the part that stays, fill in the bit you want gone with sand/whatever, and "move up" the liner to it's new frontier - and cut away the excess. Sounds more complicated than it is.

I know very litttle about Koi and goldfish, but I’m fairly certain we have a combination in the pond. We lost 5 of our big Koi 3 years ago when the humidity was very high and we had an electrical outage for over 8 hours, the pump wasn’t working and the fish were gasping for air at the top. It was terrible and I was devestated to see them struggling. The smaller ones survived as did the big goldfish. The pondshop up the road lost 3 of his Koi same night because of the same thing...

Can’t run the hozelock pumps and stop the filtration, these pumps db bought to replace the Oase pump we had which only needed doing once every 8 weeks to these 2 new pumps (which are crap) and need doing every week. The pond shop had sold to new owners and they were distributors of the new product and talked db into, changing to them (keep in mind he caught legionnaires we think from the Oase pump) hozelock bioforce, supposed to be simple easy turn of the handle, they have never ever been a simple easy turn, they were installed incorrectly, and we’ve had nothing but trouble since. Last Xmas when db was away they broke down and I had to get a chap in to fix them as the humidity was high, he said they’re still under warranty, so while db was away for the 3 weeks I was doing the weekly turn and clean it nearly broke my back, getting in and out of the pond to the actual pumps to lift them out and clean, then go to the filters and turn them to run the water clean. It’s just a massive job ever since he got these new pumps. I hate them with a passion and the chap that came to fix them said get rid of them while under warranty, they’re useless. He recommended we go back to the Oase or a different brand but of course db came home, never did anything about following up despite me giving him all the detail what needed to be done and so now out of warranty, stuck with a crappy system I can’t manage.

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He is here and has done the pond, the blow vac of the yard, mowing of the front lawn and the trimming of the hedges.

He said again, I know you think she is forever but she isn’t, she stayed at the boys 3 nights this week, she is there today doing the washing. Says his feeling go down for her but the minute someone says anything about her he is pushed towards her, I said that’s addiction and the sooner you realise that the safer you will be, but you’ve mistaken me for someone who cares. I no longer care because I’ve learned more in this last week and I know I’m no longer the laughing stock of town, but you my friend, you are. By who? He says - people who know you and her, that would be who, his first words well I don’t drink there anymore so it doesn’t matter. No I replied, it doesn’t but pride and integrity used to be something you valued and while you may say you don’t care, you will sooner or later when everything you once valued is destroyed.

I told him I definitely did not destroy the letters, told him about her Instagram account and the photo of burning papers in the chimenea November 5th and that I didn’t appreciate him trying to make me think I had gone and hidden them and now couldn’t find them. I said so it was either you or her, he just said “Ok”. And while that hurts, I will just have to get over it, keeping them would only bring me down so either one of them has done me a huge favour in the long run.

Pam,
Ii is good you got to tell him what you have been thinking. Letting him know, even tho it hurts; he has mistaken you for someone who cares, and that you no longer care. Your self respect and pride in yourself is quite evident. That must have given db "food for thought" about himself.

You were given so much advice about the pond. It's amazing those who are able to discuss with so much detail. I hope this has all been helpful.


Gerry

Pam, it is excellent that you has such an honest and direct conversation with DB.

The information about your fish and pond reminds me of an old joke in which a young boy was asked to review a book about penguins. His review was one line; "This book told me more about penguins than I wanted to know.".

Seriously, I hope that it will all help you .

In your own time
If I may
The things that mean most
Your sanity serenity spirit strength space all in your control
In your time
Not a time for anymore information about the girl
His feelings are not yours anymore
Cleaning house inside as you handle literally cleaning house on the outside a good thing
Only for you and your physical capabilities in the long run cost
My point you have decision you make for the better of you
It not so quick and easy sometimes
But you my dear are doing it
You be the only one to call the shots
He lost his privileges there
Since hearing of you situation
Three more stories all identical and two of the three are doing well under such circumstances
And to make the decision with children involved
Is awesome to see
But the one who needs that someone to define herself as a woman is killing herself and hurting herself in addition to pain she is already going through hoping for her choice to remove the pain of infidelity by substance is making things so much worse
I fear for her with all my being I just want to shake her
Stop using this as an excuse
She matters
And his hold on her is based on crap
Get it
Has no substance
Yet who the hell sm I to say what one needs
But I think you understand my point
We
We
Need to love who we are striving to be
And isn’t that the best in all we do
So how can one not get that not in our time
We are doing all we can not hurting anyone around us by the choices we make
And for the others more power to you
Heavenly Father never let us down
We have it in us
As ill as we are
We have a brain that is working just great
So don’t even try and go there
May it be a favor
It is still your business
You call the shots
Empowering
That’s what you do
Love
Me

Christmas Day been and gone, he visited gave me my gift, played with the pets, took the older dogs for a walk, and spoke again of wanting to try to move forward with counselling. Wants us to buy a new house and start afresh. I listened offering few words. He showed me houses on the internet, has already been looking. My Xmas card “to my wife” made reference to hope we can work things out, mine on the other hand, “to my friend”, hope you find what you wanted in 2018. My gift to him, small but a reminder of his roots and all that he once valued.

I said to him, shave your beard and post a clean shaven photo on FB. You re-grew your beard because she wanted you to (she wanted him to look like her father but he doesn’t get that) and the photo you have is of you with beard and the night of your award. His response was I’m not shaving my beard for anyone.

I replied if you want to take steps to repairing our marriage shaving your beard is a very small step, it can be re-grown within a month, our 25 year marriage cannot be repaired in that time. But it’s a step you need to take. And I won’t entertain anything you say until I see evidence you are prepared to offer more than words. Forgive me when I think for your words are meaningless.

I reminded him again when he left, shave your beard and I’ll consider counselling. He has expressed his remorse but right now it means nothing. I still care for him and I do wonder if we will sort things out, but if he can’t go through with a small “test” then I don’t need to wonder at all.

I'll keep to the techie/fishie stuff first.

The dying had to do with oxygen levels, not filtration.

A waterfall helps (a bit) with mixing the water with oxygen. Another (usually cheap) solution is to use an airpump/special airstones at several places around the pond.

In my case I don't need them - I have a waterfall too - because the difference will be summer temps. A decent pump would set you back about $150, you need some (very small diameter) tubing, and some air stones (cheap as dirt).

It's what fish need most: they breathe through their gills and have to depend on the oxygen levels in the water. The hotter the air/water, the less oxygen is saturated, so that's where the air stones/air pump would come in. A filtration system in itself does NOT add oxygen (in fact, some systems actually use us oxygen as the bacteria need them to convert the bad stuff (ammonia (aka pee ) into nitrite and then into nitrate.

Sorry to get technical, but it's important as that world is full of idiot merchants. Fish gasping? Add pump/airstones/keep waterfall running, problem finished in 15 minutes.

I've seen some of the pictures, but it's hard to be sure. There are quite a few "butterfly koi" -> the one with the "wavy" tails? Those are usually not considered "valuable" (in koi freak money terms). But you might still find people who want to pay a bit of money.

The pond is also overcrowded as hell. Ideally, you need at least 1m3 per grown up koi (so, a 1000 liters). But preferably more. The pond also needs to be DEEP before BIG. Shallower water heats up quicker -> quicker to lose oxygen when it gets hot too. Deeper water keeps cooler. (and also warmer in winter: did you know that in freezing weather water (even with ice on it) at -2meter will still be around 4°C?)

The pump... OK, there it's getting weird. Oase you say? Yeah, German company, German quality, best in class. My main 15000 liter/hour pump is in it's 18th season (I don't run it between November/March) without a glitch, and... without ever having to take it out of the water or cleaning it! Oh, did I mention it's an Oase?

A pump should just feed the water to a filtration system, leave the debris through (up to 2 cm), and in case of Oase run forever and ever. I have NEVER EVER had to go into the water to touch the pump (OK, I lie, once in 2012 to change it's place a little). Having to go into the water to clean a pump is madness. I hope whoever did that did not get paid. Grrrr.

I don't know the other system you now have, but I'm afraid DB has been duped, sorry.

The disease has nothing to do with the type of pump, but with water at a very specific temperature. Not an issue here, but I can imagine it is in Oz.

Anyway: in that pond, even with a 24 hour outage, goldfish (not bundles OK? just 10 or so?) will survive without any problems. ESPECIALLY if you keep a air stone or 2 running all day long (instead of a filtration system).

Look, I know you are overwhelmed with info, so I'll follow up with a summary post - but be assured all the above is 100% accurate.