Where do faulty perceptions end and delusions begin?

For example:I will often think that fellow posters hate me based on non replies to my post or comments made.Invariably they tell me they don't.Is that perceptual or delusional?

Also what is the consensus on what makes a thought 'psychotic'?
The nature of the thought itself regardless of whether you can see it to be not grounded in reality?

For example: Every once in an infrequent while it crosses my mind that some of the inanimate objects in my flat could come to life and talk to me ie ornaments/stuffed toys.Then i start expecting them to do so.



Although i know that the thought isn't rational/sensible it is difficult to shake off though it does go away after a couple of hours or so.

Hi, Tim .... You are asking, in essence, a relatively frequent question - "Am I crazy? Just what do my thoughts and feelings mean?"

Well, most definitely, you are not crazy --

But what's the whys behind how you feel, perceive, think? I've done some research this morning to have some authorities back up what I'm going to say - which is why I didn't respond more promptly ...

First, some definitions -
Paranoid DISORDERS - A group of psychotic disorders characterized by delusions of grandeur and persecution, suspiciousness, hypersensitivity, hyperalertness, jealousy, guardedness, resentment, humorlessness, litigiousness (tending to engage in lawsuits) and sullenness.
http://depts.washington.edu/psyclerk/terms/termslist2.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by firemonkey Also what is the consensus on what makes a thought 'psychotic'?

Need you to understand that the reason that drives the paranoia is the deep deep inerradicable CONVICTIONS of the person, with those underlying convctions are similar to these --- "I am SO unique, special and important that
1) others cannot keep from thinking and talking about me when I am not around and
2) others are irrationally jealous of me and therefore are plotting to cause my downfall and
3) when others demonste kindness and/or friendliness, it is FAKE, a COMPLETE lie, pretence and deception based on jealousies and obsessions and desires to ruin me.

And there is NO AMOUNT of reasoning or clarification that can shake these convictions. Oh, they might PRETEND for a time - but it is a strategic pretence to prevent their destruction and further they ability to further protect themselves and/or to destroy their enemies.

Paranoid disorders with these psychotic features of "UNREAL CONVICTIONS" can be very dangerous and unpredictable. Most schizophrenics or otherwise psychotic people do not have a paranoid disorder. The ones who think they ARE G_d or that G_d (or "the devil") talks to them are paranoids. But it is not necessary to be this bad to qualify.

Antipsychotics can be of help in lessening symptoms, but paranoids, suspecting that others have only ill intentions see medications as objects of harm and control, thus are less likely than others to be cooperative with therapies.

Now on the other hand, PARANOID IDEATION - Ideation, of far less than delusional proportions, and involves suspiciousness and/or the belief that one is being harassed, persecuted, or unfairly treated.
http://depts.washington.edu/psyclerk/terms/termslist2.htm

Now think about your background and your experiences in life, and you can see that many of your experiences have VALIDATED those ideas. Like your earlier decades of experience with NHS's dismissiveness of your mental and emotional difficulties. Dismissiveness to the point of ridicule and irritation at you, telling you to "snap out of it."

SEE? You have sound and valid REASON to expect that you may very well be treated the same in other situations. But you have overcome a lot of that by your experiences since shortly before Brenda's death, when you finally got a psychiatrist who BELIEVED you when you talked about your problems and he SAW you as you are. He validated YOU, not your former ideas.

And you have SHOWN that you can overcome and disbelieve your former ideas, based on all those previous ideas, by going to see your case manager and cooperating with her ideas, going to group (and OPENING UP!), and by taking your meds ... You are feeling confident in cooperating and being a team member in your care because they have provided a corrective environment of TRUST by meeting your needs.

Therefore, you have no paranoid delusions. Additionally, you have shown an EXCEPTIONAL level of potential for changing IDEAS about us, the other bipolars and PD'd here with us. YES, you sometimes, in a kneejerk historically based reaction, have "Paranoid Penelope" bite you in the butt .... but you are willing to BELIEVE that she is lying ...

and so you keep working at increasing your understanding of what is real here. Being people, we will sometimes fail to meet your needs or expectations, but that is not out of feelings of dislike or of ill intent to punish you. It is simply that life is like that. Nothing is perfect. You are not perfect, I am not perfect - and that makes us NORMAL.

Now, your next question ---
You know what, Tim? I have had such VIVID dreams of flying, of having the ability to levitate with mind control, float slightly above the ground, glide down flights of stairs in one stride --- and even levitate to a level about the crowds that they are in awe of me, everone watching. WOW, are those the GREATEST of all possible dreams!

Now usually I just enjoy them immensely, savour the memories - they bring me joy and a sense of wonder....

BUT BUT BUT there was a time of a number of days (weeks?) when the dreams seemed so real to me, that I was periodically CONVINCED that I could really do these things. CONVINCED. No, I didn't try to do it. I think I didn't want to face the evidence that I could not. But I was so convinced, that it came as a shock and surprise when, each time, I would consider what I knew about reality and had to recognize that I could truly not remember any particular time that was OBVIOUSLY not a dream.... It was a sad realization - it provoked feelings of wistfulness .. even of loss.

Did that mean I was psychotic? No, it didn't. It was a delusional mind set for a period of time when I must have had particular emotional needs that prompted me to deeply wish that I COULD fly. I COULD.

And while I am no psychic, here is what I might suspect is happening with the ornaments and stuffed animals when you imagine that they COULD come to life and talk WITH YOU... is that it might be that you are very lonely and need someone to live with you again (in time, in your time) --- or at least have someone safe, someone you can trust as a basically good person, a stable person who would not erratically and irrationally suddenly abandon and hurt you for not reason. Maybe someone who you could visit or who could visit with you.

You are not psychotic for even tho you EXPECT them to come to life, to visit with you, you can, at the same time, as I could to, realize that these thoughts were not rational or reasonable.

Teri .. bit more later..

Dorland's Medical Dictionary --
paranoid p. (disorder) [DSM-IV] a personality disorder marked by a view of other people as hostile, devious, and untrustworthy and a combative response to disappointments or to events experienced as rebuffs or humiliations.

Notable are a questioning of the loyalty of friends, the bearing of grudges, a tendency to read threatening meanings into benign remarks, and unfounded suspicions of the fidelity of a partner.

Unlike delusional disorder or paranoid schizophrenia, in which delusional or hallucinatory persecution occurs, it is not characterized by psychosis.
http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns...zSzdmd_p_15zPz

A bunch of students with severe test anxiety were studied, learned about, then given biofeedback treatments to teach the mind. This is not the ONLY way to deal with the anxiety and sensitivity behind paranoid ideation, but this is a fast way that teaches you to control your response, yet bypass the psychological approach. It has not been used specifically in purely interpersonal circumstances, but I hope it is.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Institute of Heart Health .... the trained students demonstrated significant improvements in emotional well-being following the program. These included reductions in Hostility, Depression, Interpersonal Sensitivity (feelings of personal inadequacy, inferiority and self-doubt), Paranoid Ideation (fear, suspicion and distrust), Somatization (physical symptoms due to stress) and global indices of distress.

The Freeze-Framer
The Freeze-Framer is a unique interactive learning system with a patented heart rhythm monitor. It uses a fingertip sensor to objectively monitor the heart rhythm and confirm when students are in the coherent mode – in sync. This is like the fingertip device you generally find attached to one of your fingers when you wake up from surgery. The awareness of the pulse rate and the smoothness of the heart rate was demonstrated on a computer screen. I presume you could use the finger tips on your wrist? Seems so.

Anyway, the interactive learning system helps them learn to selfgenerate physiological stability and coherence and to track their progress. The Freeze-Framer is very different from devices that simply measure heart rate. It measures the subtle beat-to-beat changes in heart rate and shows the rhythmic patterns as they develop over time. This is called heart rate variability (HRV) analysis.

Using the device, called the Freeze-Framer, the students learned how to stabilize their emotions and nervous systems at will, even when taking important tests which would have otherwise caused high anxiety, robbing them of their mental clarity.

Quote:

Emotions like frustration, anxiety or worry can cause the signals going down the two parts of the autonomic nervous system to get out of sync with each other. This is like driving your car with one foot on the gas pedal (the sympathetic nervous system) and the other on the brake (parasympathetic nervous system) at the same time. This would create a jerky ride, increased gas consumption and greater wear and tear on your car. Having your nervous system out of sync causes extra stress on your body, depleting your energy and interfering with your ability to think.

The Freeze-Framer
The Freeze-Framer is a unique interactive learning system with a patented heart rhythm monitor. It uses a fingertip sensor to objectively monitor the heart rhythm and confirm when students are in the coherent mode – in sync. It helps them learn to selfgenerate physiological stability and coherence and to track their progress. The Freeze-Framer is very different from devices that simply measure heart rate. It measures the subtle beat-to-beat changes in heart rate and shows the rhythmic patterns as they develop over time. This is called heart rate variability (HRV) analysis.

Using the Freeze-Framer, students learned how to stabilize their emotions and nervous systems at will, even when taking important tests which would have otherwise caused high anxiety, robbing them of their mental clarity.

Emotions like frustration, anxiety or worry can cause the signals going down the two parts of the autonomic nervous system to get out of sync with each other. This is like driving your car with one foot on the gas pedal (the sympathetic nervous system) and the other on the brake (parasympathetic nervous system) at the same time. This would create a jerky ride, increased gas consumption and greater wear and tear on your car. Having your nervous system out of sync causes extra stress on your body, depleting your energy and interfering with your ability to think.


The heart rate variablity pattern, characterized by its random, jerky form, is typical of feelings of Anxiety, Anger or Frustration. Sincere positive feeling states like appreciation can result in highly ordered and coherent HRV (heart rate variability) patterns, generally associated with enhanced cognitive function and emotional stability.

On the other hand, when we feel uplifting emotions, such as appreciation, the signals sent through the nervous system are very different than when we are feeling upset. These emotions allow the two branches of the nervous system to get in sync with each other. Then the body's glands and organs work together in harmony and the heart's rhythms become smooth and even–and this directly affects our brain's ability to perform well.

The results of this study suggest that practice of the techniques taught in the TestEdge program lead to improvements in the brain's information-processing capabilities. Implications are that Freeze-Framer can be used to systematically improve performance on tasks requiring focus, attention, discrimination and accurate reaction.

The Freeze-Framer has been successfully used in diverse settings by mental health professionals, teachers, school counselors, and students interested in advancing their personal and academic development. In addition, it's very effective in helping students with ADHD. As one specialist noted, "I have seen remarkable improvements in students' attention, performance and behavior in the classroom in just a few sessions."
http://www.heartmath.org/education/testedge/why.php

Thanks Teri. I think a lot of my paranoia stems from anxiety and fear .I would say from what you have written that what i experience is paranoid ideation.
I know that i can become irrational/confused/rant and rave when i feel highly stressed or
threatened but whether that would be called 'psychotic ideation' i am not sure.

Hi Tim --- I fully AGREE. No doubt. That is all it is.

Well, it is true that with certain personality disorders (the ones that the DSM-IV groups under what is called the Cluster Bs), Brief Reactive Situational Psychotic Reaction can occur under extreme stress. I've heard of the ones that happened when the man was when threatened, but I hadn't realized they might not have been under conscious control.. He had told me it was "acting crazy to cause them to learn to back off and never mess with me again." But maybe he just "said that"

But no matter how it is for you, what you describe does not mean you are "Psychotic" or that you "Have a Psychosis". It is a brief reactive situational psychosis.

People with true psychotic conditions don't just get over them within a few hours or days... It is a secondary effect of your personality disorder.

By the way - MOST people have what is called a Mixed or Unspecified PD. So don't feel like you're being short-changed by not having a particular label. Actually, the ICD-M that the rest of the world uses places a lot more PDs under that unspecified classification. You see, the labeling is really an artificial thing to 1) make insurance companies happy (they like labels) and 2) so they have a "shorthand" to indicate to other docs what they THINK they observed and found at the particular time they were dealing with the patient.

But frankly, it is more common than is generally recognized or admitted that the face of PDs can be very fluid.

- Teri

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