[hathor]

Hi, all! I'm glad to have found this forum.

Brief history -- my gut never worked right that I can recall, but I never quite worked out why. I read in another forum about the experiences of people with gluten intolerance (no one officially with celiac disease -- they just found they felt better without the stuff). I tried to make gnocchi that turned into flour bombs. We ate them anyway. I felt absolutely horrid, so I thought I would give gluten-free a try. I didn't really expect much. I mean, I'm 53; if I'm gluten intolerant, wouldn't I already know? I immediately feel better (although the symptoms that cleared up are more like regular allergy ones). I decided to the the whole nine yards with Enterolab. While I'm waiting on the kit and then the results, I continue gluten-free and my gut gets more and more normal.

Two days ago -- I get the Enterolab results back. Two versions of a gluten intolerance gene, but neither of the celiac ones. Everything is over threshold level. So I'm gluten intolerant with malabsorption. I'm also casein and egg sensitive (since I follow a basically vegan diet, my little outside excursions obviously were enough to get the antibodies churning out). None of this surprised me THAT much, although I was surprised by the malabsorption (I'm a pretty healthy sick person, I guess )

What really blew me away was the finding that I was sensitive to soy and I have had a marginal sensitivity to yeast. I've only been going gluten-free for a little over a month (and I don't think I was as strict as I should have been -- part of me didn't really believe I had a problem). Now I've got to figure out all this hidden soy?

And yeast -- I don't even know WHAT I'm supposed to cut out. OK, things with yeast as a listed ingredient; I understand that But the lists I find on the internet seem to be for people dealing with yeast infections, which I don't have (that I know of). Things on the lists include stuff like sugar, dried fruit, vinegar, all alcoholic drinks, mushrooms, peanuts, even canned tomatoes. There is no consistency among the lists and I don't even know if they are relevant to someone in my situation.

Plus the fact that my score was an 11 and sensitivity is 10 or above and I never have seemed to react to things with yeast -- my husband thinks it is measurement error. And I WANT to believe that, because I'm coping with eliminating enough else.

I mean, I just went to my first restaurant meal post "diagnosis." Talk about a feeble attempt to communicate. I'm trying to find something without milk, egg, gluten, soy, or yeast and the waitress is looking at me like I am a nut job. So I explain that I just had this testing done so she wouldn't think I'm crazy -- I obviously wasn't ready with my restaurant skills yet

Enough of my ranting I see there is lots of useful information on this site and I will go through it. It seems researching what I can eat is my new hobby Anyway, does anyone here also deal with other sensitivities, particularly the ones I have? I am hoping there is a good, definitive list out there of what must be avoided for soy and yeast sensitivities.

Also, I'm not sure how strict I have to be with these things. Is it the same as with gluten or won't I have to worry about microscopic amounts?

I wonder how I could have lived so long with all this sensitivity. I'm wondering if the gluten damage (slower because I have intolerance genes, not celiac ones) caused a leaky gut, which caused other sensitivities. Who knows -- if Enterolab tested for corn or other things I could be sensitive to them, also. Perhaps once I heal, I can have soy and yeast again. I don't really care about dairy and eggs; I had pretty much stopped eating any quantity of them because I couldn't digest them very well.

So if anyone has any words of advice, web site or book suggestions, or even just a "been there, done that" comment, I would appreciate it. OK, group hug I had to work that one in ...

I have emailed questions to Enterolab, but I thought it would be useful to hear things from the trenches as well.

[jamietwo]

Welcome hathor!

Its definitely possible to be gluten-free and vegan - my family is (I should qualify that - we're strict dietary vegans with the exception of honey)! We never try to eat out! My son is also corn-free (who would have guessed that xanthan gum and citric acid contain corn?) and has been soy-free until the last couple of weeks when we started him on a soy rotation of every 4th day. He does love his tempeh, tofu, and cinnamon kale stir-fry (which he won't eat without tamari!)!

As for reading recommendations - definitely read The Gluten File! There should be a sticky for it at the top of this forum. Also, look for Kim's post on doing an elimination diet. I have yet to do a proper elimination diet, although I still want to do one... We've always picked a "suspect" food and eliminated it.

Good luck - there's a wealth of information on these boards!

[DogtorJ]

Hi Hathor,

Welcome to the forum. I atribute the success I have had to two things: Being strict and identifying as many other food issues I have as possible. I am also dairy and soy free (very common issues) and limit my corn intake.

One of the surprises was my coffee allergy. I had a veterinary client who was suffering from serious migraines. She was self-employed and was spending over $700/month out-of-pocket for Imitrex. I encouraged her to do The Sage Systems ( www.foodallergytest.com ) test and eat accordingly. Her migraines vanished in about 2 weeks and have not returned as of 6 months now. BUT, the interesting thing was her coffee allergy.

Suddenly, I realized that the coffee had lost its punch and even made me sleepy sometimes. I had been having some occasional GI distress/heartburn and headaches that I couldn't figure out. It all disppeared when I went off coffee. I drink hot tea now and it doesn't bother me at all.

Of course, this makes perfectly good sense when I think about it. We know that secondary food allergies occur as the result of the damage done to the intestinal villi by the gluten (and/or casein, soy, corn). Celiacs pre-diagnosis often times drink A LOT of coffee to counteract the depression associated with our condition. I certainly did. So, it makes sense that coffee allergy could be a factor in us. I would imagine that there are a number of celiacs who feel like they have plateau'd and it is the coffee that is doing to them. It kinda falls into the "Whodathunkit" category.

Again, welcome.

John

[annelb]

Hi Hathor,
Thought I would try to answer your yeast question. Yes, eliminating yeast is very confusing. There is no black and white with yeast. Apparently for a yeast reduced diet, you eliminate all the food necessary to make you feel better. This may include such stuff as vinegar, coffee, chocolate, citric acid

When talking with Dr. Fine, his eliminaiton of yeast is all added baker's yeast. When I was at his convention he said all food would be yeast, soy, dairy and gluten free. I was surprised to see mushrooms and vinegar.

I have found I feel better if I go a step farther and remove vinegar - maybe it is someting else in vinegar that bothers me. I am also low in processed sugars - I still eat any fruit.

Definitely remove anything that has yeast in the ingredient list - the rest will be trial and error to see what you can tolerate. I found Feast Without Yeast to be a helpful book. http://www.amazon.com/Feast-Without-.../dp/0967005701 The only fault I found is that gluten was not removed soon enough.

I will be interested to hear what Dr Fine has to say.
Anne

[hathor]

I've been a little afraid of the corn issue. Heck, if Enterolab tested for that, perhaps I would be sensitive to it as well

If you don't mind my asking, why did your son go corn-free? What were the symptoms or the tests that caused you to do this? I'm struggling enough to cope with adding soy to my recent gluten-free regime. Ingredients from corn are ubiquitous, too.

I haven't noticed a reaction to corn. Then again, I haven't noticed a reaction to soy or yeast either. I hardly have a reaction to gluten. What symptoms I have are rather subtle. I thought I might be a hypochondriac about the entire issue until I got the lab results back. I've read about elimination diets. But I don't know how it would work for me, since I don't seem to react. Perhaps if I don't have a food for awhile, then challenge with it, I would have a reaction. But I don't really know that I WANT to know at this point if there is anything else. I'm thinking that I have enough to deal with now ... perhaps later ... Gee, just typing this I feel like such a wimp.

I'm originally from Iowa. How could I have problems with corn? I could never go home again.

Originally Posted by jamietwo

Its definitely possible to be gluten-free and vegan - my family is (I should qualify that - we're strict dietary vegans with the exception of honey)! We never try to eat out!

I know it is possible. I've even joined a Yahoo group for such folk.

Are you perhaps followers of the McDougall diet? Given your explanation, I thought it was a possibility. I've follow this diet myself. The "never eating out" idea frightens me. It is something I enjoy so much. So what, I have to cook all the time now I really enjoy different ethnic cuisines, but this is going to be harder now. How many Asian cuisines use soy sauce, if only a little? What can I spread the hummus on? My favorite Ethiopean place uses wheat flour in addition to teff in making their injera. NOOO!

Sorry, I was whining again. Everybody here has had to deal with the same issues, so I'm sure newbie whining gets a bit old

So, do you EVER eat out? If so, what do you get? Whatever do you do on vacation? We have a two week European river cruise this summer already paid for. For many meals, I'm going to be limited to what they have. My husband thinks I may have to eat fish, but then there is always the problem with any breading, sauces, cross-contamination, etc. I figure I'm going to have to pack some food to fill in any gaps.

I will certainly read the Gluten File as you recommend. I also have a book I just bought (The Gluten-Free Bible) to go through. It seems like figuring out what I can eat has turned into my new, all-time-consuming hobby.

[JudyLV]

Hi Hathor,

I have been GF for over 4 years. Last summer I had delayed food allergy testing done and learned I had very high reactions to many foods, including all dairy, eggs, soy, legumes, and citrus. I was diagnosed with MS in 1998 and had not had progression of my symptoms since going gluten free. However,I continued to have intense tingling in my legs every day. Since identifying and removing the additional reactive foods from my diet I have had a substantial decrease in the tingling in my legs.

We tested my son for allergies last spring after he was getting sick while on a GF diet and he has many of the same allergies. I searched many "allergy free" type cook books and rarely found a recipe I could use "as is". What works best for us is a whole foods diet. We do not eat a lot of processed foods and rarely go out to eat. I do go out once a month with my book club but am very careful ordering and will gladly have a salad if I do not feel anything else is safe.

Now that John has brought up the coffee allergy I will have to reconsider that one. I still have one cup in the morning but I had tested "moderate" to coffee. My approach was to "just" remove the foods I reacted highly to since that was most major food groups. Now I guess I should consider replacing the coffee.


Sorry I can not help with the yeast question. I am sure you will find a lot of good information here.

--Judy

[hathor]

Sorry, guys. Being new here, I thought that my response would somehow go under the person I was responding to. I wanted to reply to the other three who have commented.

To DogtorJ:

Why do you limit corn? Is it something you react to or is there some other reason?

I've already given up coffee a few years ago. I develop a dependence on it and then need it to function. I'm laughing because, even though I meant mentally function, I also realize that for several decades of my life, I think it was the coffee that enabled me to have my bowels move at all. (Heck, this is a gluten-intolerance board; we all talk about our poo, right? ) As a child, before I discovered the wonders of coffee, I lived a life of laxatives and enemas. Now, off coffee and following a high-fiber vegan diet (and exercise, plenty of water, and trying several brands of probiotics), I still had problems. I figured it must be something I was eating and thought gluten might be the problem, since I had it every day. Now, my system is doing much better every day.

What do you think of the reliability of blood testing for food intolerances? From my reading, it seems like some say it really hasn't been validated (others disagree, of course, and I lack the technical expertise to figure it out for myself). I know I've read people who say that they react to things that don't show up on their tests and don't react to things that do.

For that matter, I wonder if the same could be true of the Enterolab fecal testing. I don't think it questionable that I react to gluten since I have two gluten-intolerance genes, the antibodies, malabsorption, plus I'm doing better since I cut out gluten. I believe the casein and egg results, since I have real problems digesting them whenever I try. But soy and yeast, I don't know. Now the soy result was much higher, so I'm willing to try cutting that out. But yeast? I'm just over the threshold (11, with under 10 being "normal" according to Enterolab) and having real difficulties researching the issue because what I find is folks talking about Candida problems.

Any insight you might shed on this would be appreciated.

To annelb:

Originally Posted by annelb

Hi Hathor,
Thought I would try to answer your yeast question. Yes, eliminating yeast is very confusing. There is no black and white with yeast. Apparently for a yeast reduced diet, you eliminate all the food necessary to make you feel better. This may include such stuff as vinegar, coffee, chocolate, citric acid

When talking with Dr. Fine, his eliminaiton of yeast is all added baker's yeast. When I was at his convention he said all food would be yeast, soy, dairy and gluten free. I was surprised to see mushrooms and vinegar.

I have found I feel better if I go a step farther and remove vinegar - maybe it is someting else in vinegar that bothers me. I am also low in processed sugars - I still eat any fruit.

Definitely remove anything that has yeast in the ingredient list - the rest will be trial and error to see what you can tolerate. I found Feast Without Yeast to be a helpful book. http://www.amazon.com/Feast-Without-.../dp/0967005701 The only fault I found is that gluten was not removed soon enough.

I will be interested to hear what Dr Fine has to say.
Anne

I will certainly report back what I'm told.

So, you are on a yeast-free or reduced-yeast diet now? Was this in response to Enterolab testing or did you have Candida-related problems?

The problem with taking out things so I feel better is that I don't feel bad right now. I don't notice a problem with yeasted breads, or vinegar, or mushrooms, or wine. And chocolate! Where did you come up with that one I can't imagine giving it up. I do notice that I feel a little funky if I have too much sugar -- but I imagine that is true of everyone.

I ran across any interesting study. It would indicate that the yeast allergen doesn't make it through the process of making bread, beer, and wine. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1994.tb01806.x
I've found other references that say an allergic or intolerance reaction to the yeast in alcoholic beverages is rare and that only a negligible amount remains in the finished product (although there are "yeast breakdown products.")

The only other google hits I'm getting is all the high tech ways vintners use to try to get every little bit of yeast out of the final product, because it affects the quality.

Is there evidence out there that there is enough yeast in the final products to worry about? I find that if I have too much alcohol, sugar, or refined carbs I don't feel well and I don't fight infection as well (the concern of all the Candida web sites and books). But this isn't the same thing as saying there is something in (gluten, soy, dairy, and egg free) bread or wine that I would have an autoimmune reaction against such that I can never have them in any amount.

Looking at labels, I have found that I had a number of meal cups that I frequently used for lunches and snacks that all contain added nutritional yeast or yeast extract. I wonder if that is what the problem is.

Oh, I'm being an argumentative cuss. My husband, who was doubtful before the results came back, now accepts the need for me to eliminate gluten and soy. But he finds the yeast thing doubtful. Maybe because we recently restocked our wine cellar, ya think

So let me keep my dark chocolate and my wine (and find me something I can put hummus on) and I'll be a happy camper at this point Oh, you can't take my hot chiles either ...

To JudyLV:

I know there is nothing worse than someone offering unsolicited advice about one's diet. But I'll throw something out for you; you can consider it or not as you wish. MS is something that we have been researching since my BIL may have it, although his final diagnosis is proving elusive.

You may want to research whether eliminating all animal foods from your diet will further lessen your symptoms. http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_ms.html
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/050812tasic.html
http://www.drmcdougall.com/res_swank.html

My husband has done some more extensive internet research on MS and the diet issue. It seems that traditional treatments don't work well and have troublesome side effects and that Dr. Swank has had good success with diet. However, mainstream medicine is very resistant to saying that diet has anything to do with MS. But dh couldn't find anybody who had conflicting studies or who offered a reasoned critique of Dr. Swank's work. Doctors just offer a dismissive opinion, but never provide an explanation.

Since you have experienced a decrease in symptoms with a change in diet, I thought you might be receptive to another step. It certainly can't hurt anything to give it a try. But please forgive me for offering advice when you didn't ask for it. I mean well

[JudyLV]

Since you have experienced a decrease in symptoms with a change in diet, I thought you might be receptive to another step.

Thanks. I am always receptive to suggestions. Actually the Swank Diet was my first step. I was on it for probably at least 4 years. Then my holostic doctor said one reason why my stressed adrenals could not heal was that I needed some animal fat in my diet. I added some butter, eggs and a bit of red meat occasionally. I felt somewhat better--had more lasting energy. Now butter and eggs are out again because of the major dairy and egg allergies. In fact I am working with a very experienced nutritionist who said she has seen hundreds of delayed food allergy results by this lab http://www.optimumhealthresource.com/ and that until she saw my results she had never seen anyone with off the board high results for every dairy category tested (casein, some cheeses, whey, milk, yogurt, and goat milk).

I am sorry about your BIL. I guess MS is a diagnosis of exclusion. I have learned that there are many things that can cause white matter lesions (gluten, mercury toxicity, B-12 deficiency). If I had started out with a different doctor I might have gotten a different diagnosis (although I did get second and third opinions). I had my amalgams removed and did some chelation therapy. I take many supplements including b-12. However, even though I get better every year I have yet to find a doctor that will take away a MS diagnosis.

--Judy

[mistofviolets]

Hi Hathor!

Welcome to the board!
I have MANY sensitivities...thankfully eggs aren't one of them (but I can't have many beans or meat...so...I'd be lost without that bit of protein) I find that my most severe reactions are to corn derivatives And there is corn EVERYWHERE. I wrote to enterolab encouraging them to test for it, but they aren't sure if Dr Fine is researching it or not, will forward my comments etc.

I don't eat out. But, before realizing there were more sensitivities than just corn and gluten, I had entertained thoughts of plain salad and baked potato, and enjoyed an occassional fruit only jamba juice (no boost) They are inherently gluten free, easily casein and soy free (ask for no sorbet, tell them its a severe allergy and go at an off time so they have time to listen) and squeeze their OJ fresh each day. Its expensive, but its a sort of restaurant meal/snack.

When I got my IgG test results back (I used York now Optimum Health) I was disappointed; but then looked closer and decided to eliminate all the moderate/milds. It made a big difference. I hadn't realized I was reacting to asparagus and green beans...the day *after* ingesting them. Its as if they hit a certain point in my digestive tract before my body said "Whoa, wait, you don't belong here!" and began attacking me. It was consistent enough for me to accept that the results were accurate, and I've yet to trial some of the items.

Since you have malabsorption, that could lead to moderately elevated responses. A rotation diet (There is a post here I think from Kim about rotation diets) might help. It limits cinsumption so the body gets a break, and you can more easily track down a response.

As to what can you put hummus on...Celery, carrot sticks, my dd loves baby peppers stuffed with hummus, rice cakes or rice crackers, potato chips (weird but it works), and you can make hummus rolls with leaf lettuce. Its not pita, but hopefully you can tolerate one of those! I'm allergic to sesame, olive oil and lemon juice...not to mention some legumes, so...I haven't had hummus in forever. *sigh* At least I can eat chocolate. Until Lent. LOL.

[annelb]

So, you are on a yeast-free or reduced-yeast diet now? Was this in response to Enterolab testing or did you have Candida-related problems?

I figured out the yeast thing myself - everytime I ate GF yeast bread I felt bad. I would not have know this if I had not started out on a very simple diet of whole foods. Both York and Enterolab have confirmed this yeast problem.

About 43% of people with CD have a sensitivity to baker's yeast according to this study but the antibodies can disappear especially in children. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

There is no such thing as a yeast free diet as yeast is everywhere. It is even in more places than gluten if you can believe that. An example is fruit - many have high amounts of yeast on the skin.

I don't eat stuff with yeast extract because I try to keep my diet as simple as possible and stay far away from processed foods with long lists of ingredients.

Anne