Concering dairy

turner · 09-02-2006, 10:07 PM

Hi all, recently cut the dairy from my diet because of stomach aches. Well you people were right again, there almost all gone. It will be 3 weeks this monday.
I did try and have milk in my coffee, twice and noticed the stomach upset about hr or so after.
Rice milk seems to have a bitter after flavour, don't like

So I tried goats milk. Been having it in coffee and I did have some cereal with it. Is this ok? I read that goats milk has a different protien than cows, and isn't that what I'm trying to avoid? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I really don't mind the goats milk, actually I think I like it better than cows.

Thanks, Patricia

kozz · 09-03-2006, 03:30 AM

Hi patricia

I did the switch to goats milk a year ago after a suggestion from my doctor that I try A2 milk or goats milk ...... I had never thought I had a problem with cows milk but once I stopped having it I find I get problems from even a bit of butter or cheese

goats milk has the A2 type of casein and the A1 type causes allergy for many people ....... jersey cows give A2 milk but most give A1 ( this is not generally known in the USA but there has been quite a bit of discussion here in australia and in some places you can buy A2 milk - I posted some links at braintalk will try and find them again for you )

but back to the goats - we couldnt find anywhere nearby to buy goats milk so we bought a goat

now we have 2 does we milk and 2 kids from last year who are having their first birthday today

we make our own soft cheese, kefir, yogurt, butter and even goats milk icecream

and we find goats are wonderful pets as well

regards
kozz

NancyM · 09-03-2006, 10:49 AM

Ah neat! I think goats are so sweet. Always loved the "kids" in the county fair.

I'm still thinking on the casein alergy thing myself. The interesting thing is, there are 20 different proteins in cow milk, no consensus on which one is the problem.
http://www.allergyclinic.co.nz/guides/43.html

Quote:

Goat Milk

In some countries, goat milk has traditionally been recommended for patients with cow’s milk allergy. Goat milk is not nutritionally complete. It is a poor source of certain vitamins, especially folic acid and vitamins B6, B12, C, and D, but is rich in minerals. Goat and cow’s milk share identical epitopes (allergens). As a result, goat milk is usually not tolerated by children with cow’s milk allergy.

and

Quote:

Isolated milk protein allergens

Cow's milk contains at least 20 protein components that may provoke an antibody response in man. The milk protein fractions traditionally have been subdivided into casein and whey fractions. The caseins are generally found in micellar complexes, which give milk its "milky" appearance & constitute 76-86% of the protein in cow's milk. The casein fraction is precipitated from skim milk by acid at pH 4.6. The noncasein fraction, or whey, accounts for 20% of total milk protein. It consists of β -lactoglobulin (9% of total milk protein), α -lactalbumin (4%), bovine immunoglobulin (2%), bovine serum albumin (1%), and minute amounts of various proteins (lactoferrin, transferrin, lipases, etc. that collectively make up 4% of the total milk protein). Extensive heating denatures several of the whey proteins. Many authors have investigated the allergenicity of the milk proteins, but still with little consensus. The problem is that, virtually all commercial sources of whey are contaminated with casein proteins, and vice versa. Utilizing RAST with purified milk proteins, Hoffman concluded that β -lactoglobulin was the major allergen in cow's milk. Other studies have demonstrated IgE antibodies to α -lactalbumin, β -lactoglobulin, bovine serum albumin, and bovine gamma globulin in most milk-allergic patients. However, recent studies utilizing sera from children with milk challenge-confirmed hypersensitivity have suggested that caseins are the most allergenic milk proteins. In a recent study by Docena et al casein-specific IgE was found in 80/80 children sera, β -lactoglobulin-specific IgE in 10/80, and α -lactalbumin in 5/80. Hugh Sampson's recent study of 69 milk-allergic children confirmed the importance of casein as a major milk allergen and also demonstrated significant reactivity to α -lactalbumin and β -lactoglobulin.

I was looking for info on what animals produce which caseins. I'm a little under the impression that a given milk may consist of multiple types of caseins.

Quote:

Proteins account for approximately 75 % of the nitrogen-containing compounds in breastmilk. Non-protein nitrogen substances include urea, nucleotides, peptides, free amino acids, and DNA. The proteins of breastmilk can be divided into two categories: micellar caseins and aqueous whey proteins, present in the ratio of about 40:60 [8]. The predominant casein of human milk is b-casein, which forms micelles of relatively small volume and produces a soft, flocculent curd in the infant's stomach. The major whey proteins are a-lactalbumin, lactoferrin, secretory IgA, and serum albumin [8], with a large number of other proteins present in smaller amounts. Secretory IgA is the principal immunoglobulin of breastmilk. It is synthesized in the mammary epithelial cell by the coupling of two IgA molecules, produced locally by lymphocytes resident in the breast tissue, with two proteins, J-chain and secretory component [8]. The specificity of breastmilk secretory IgA antibodies reflects the mother's exposure to mucosal infection and is independent of the specificity profile of blood-borne IgA [9]. Many of the proteins in breastmilk have a multitude of potential functions. Lactoferrin, for example, transports and promotes the absorption of iron, is bacteriostatic to a range of organisms, and acts as a nutritional protein, producing amino acids for absorption on digestion [8, 10].

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F174e/8F174E04.htm

Haven't figured that one out yet, but I suspect if you're intolerant to one type of casein, you can't escape it by drinking another sort of milk.

kozz · 09-03-2006, 05:55 PM

some more info on A2 milk

Quote:

About 30% of the nutritionally important protein in cows’ milk is beta-casein. Research indicates that originally all cows produced milk containing only the A2 type of beta-casein, but at some point in history, owing to natural genetic mutation, a variant of the A2 gene and its associated protein appeared. Termed the A1 variant, it differed very slightly in composition from the original A2 beta-casein and has since given rise to a number of minor related subvariants, such as those termed B and C.

Cows that naturally produce A2 Milk™ can be identified through a simple DNA test taken by sampling a single tail-hair, and farmers can then milk those cows separately to ensure the production of A2 Milk™. They can also selectively breed from such cows, and from bulls identified in a similar way, to increase the number of animals in their herd that produce A2 Milk™.

The potential advantages of A2 Milk™ were first identified through epidemiological studies which showed that in countries where the dairy herds produced a higher proportion of the A2 protein in their milk, there was a significantly lower incidence of childhood diabetes and coronary heart disease.

It was recognized that this statistical correlation was not, in itself, proof of a beneficial effect of the A2 beta casein in relation to disease, but the link appeared so strong that the findings have triggered further study and review.
The research is far from complete and is ongoing, but results to date suggest not only a statistical link but also a mechanism by which the consumption of beta-casein variants has different effects on susceptible individuals.

It is known that the beta caseins when digested can yield a plethora of bioactive protein fragments, a number of which have been well characterised with regard to potential biological activity. The small differences between the beta casein variants can lead to the differential digestion of them when consumed, and thus a different yield of bioactives; it is this phenomenon which A2 Corporation Ltd believes is important when seeking to maximize the benefits of milk.

The A1 beta-casein and related sub-variants in cows milk, when digested, are known to produce a protein fragment (peptide) with opioid properties known as BCM-7. Recently the focus of numerous international studies, BCM-7 is widely believed to have the potential to interfere with the immune system in people with particular genetic susceptibilities. It has also been shown to catalyse the formation of oxidised LDL, an established risk factor in the development of arterial problems leading to coronary heart disease. Other studies have indicated an apparent connection between BCM-7 and the aggravation of neurological disorders including autism and schizophrenia.

A2 Milk™ does not preferentially yield BCM-7 when consumed, and thus the risks associated with it in susceptible consumers may be avoided. This is the scientific basis for asserting that on the basis of growing research that A2 Milk™ may present advantages over milk containing the A1 and related variants to some consumers.

http://www.a2corporation.com/index.php/pi_pageid/8

and this one specifically compares BCM & to gluten ( I have bolded the part )

Quote:

Beta Caseins and their link to Neurological Conditions
It must be clarified that the hypothetical link between beta casein variant consumption with autistic spectrum disorder (ASD) and schizophrenia relates not to the cause, but to the aggravation of symptoms associated with these neurological conditions. A number of studies have been published regarding the connection between diet and neurological disorders that identify casein as a dietary component strongly linked with the aggravation of the associated symptoms [1], [2], [3].More specifically, it is believed that the absorption of food derived exomorphins, such as BCM-7, may aggravate symptoms associated with ASD or schizophrenia [1].

This hypothesis is the basis of ‘dietary intervention’ that excludes gluten and casein from the diet of ASD patients. The former, gluten, has been shown to release gliadomorphin, an exomorphin comparable in opioid activity to BCM-7. A number of laboratories in the United States and Europe offer urine tests which determine the level of peptides including BCM 7 and other beta casomorphins to serve as an indication of the potential usefulness of dietary intervention in the treatment of ASD patients [4].

As described in the section summarising beta casein derived bioactives, this aggravation has been investigated in animal trials studies and has been shown to be reversible by the administration of specific opiate blockers. Though it is acknowledged that a number of other truncated forms of BCMs may be yielded from A2 beta casein and other milk proteins, it is believed that BCM-7 is the most relevant owing to the levels in which it is detected in urine relative to other BCMs and that it is reported to have a relative longer half life.

These studies suggest that the consumption of beta casein A1 and subsequent production and absorption of BCM-7 may significantly contribute to the aggravation of symptoms of some neurological disorders, most notably those associated with Asperger’s Syndrome of Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Citing a cross-section of these reports, an abandoned patent application filed in March 2002 [5] explicates the connection between beta casein A1 and neurological disorders.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References:

[1] Reichelt KL, Knivsberg A-M 2003; Can the pathophysiology of autism be explained by the nature of the discovered urine peptides? Nutritional Neuroscience 6:19-28.
[2] Knivsberg AM, Reichelt KL & Nodland M (2001): Reports on dietary intervention in autistic disorders. Nutritional Neuroscience 4: 23-37

[3] Cade R et al. 2000; Autism and Schizophrenia: Intestinal Disorders,Nutritional Neuroscience 3: 57-72.

[4] Testing laboratories listed at: http://www.autismndi.com/faq/display...20040922164284

[5] PCT/WO 02/19832/A1; Milk containing beta casein with proline at position 67 does not aggravate neurological disorders; Crawford RA, Boland MJ, Norris CS, Hill JP, Fenwick RM.

http://www.a2corporation.com/index.php/pi_pageid/43

kozz

kozz · 09-03-2006, 06:43 PM

Hi nancy

you quoted

Quote:

In some countries, goat milk has traditionally been recommended for patients with cow’s milk allergy. Goat milk is not nutritionally complete. It is a poor source of certain vitamins, especially folic acid and vitamins B6, B12, C, and D, but is rich in minerals. Goat and cow’s milk share identical epitopes (allergens). As a result, goat milk is usually not tolerated by children with cow’s milk allergy.

for a comparrison of milk see http://www.dairygoats.org.au/goats_milk.htm

the table wont copy correctly but the rest of the article is below

Quote:

Goats' Milk
The Benefits of Goats' Milk over Cows' Milk
By Laura Davey, 1st February 2005

Many people know that goats' milk is considered to be better for us than cows' milk but how many of us know why that is? In this section, we will endeavour to explain the differences between the different milk types and the health benefits resulting from these differences.

Although goats' milk is comparable to other milk in both appearance and taste, goats' milk and cows' milk do not taste the same. Goats' milk is smooth and slightly sweeter tasting than cows' milk, with a slightly nutty flavour. It is not strong or rich in either taste or smell if it is well produced. One obvious visual characteristic of goats' milk is its pure white colour. Unprocessed cows' milk has a slightly yellow colour in it, which is a product of the compound beta-carotene. Beta-carotene is a type of carotenoid, which is the most common class of natural pigments. Goats' milk does not contain beta-carotene. This is not necessarily a good thing as the body converts beta-carotene into Vitamin A. Beta-carotene is also a powerful antioxidant and boosts the immune system.

Goats' milk is easier to digest than cows' milk. This is mostly due to the difference in the curd and the fat globule size. The fat globules in goats' milk are much smaller than those in cows' milk. A study by Ataie and Richter (2000) found that the fat globules in goats' milk were on average 27% smaller than those found in cows' milk. This gives the fat globules in goats' milk a greater surface area to volume ratio, allowing the gastric acid in the stomach to break down and digest the fat more quickly. Due to the smaller fat globule size, goats' milk does not need to be homogenised before commercial sale, unlike cows' milk.

The curd in goats' milk is soft and can be digested in approximately 20 minutes. The relatively tough curd in cows' milk takes about six times longer to digest. The difference in the curd strength is mostly due to the different protein profiles in cows' and goats' milk. Traditionally, the proteins in milk have been divided into two groups, casein and whey. Whey is the watery part of milk and casein is the curd. The alpha-s1 casein is the main casein protein present in cows' milk. The main casein present in goats' milk is beta-casein, with alpha-s2 being the main alpha casein present. The alpha-s1 casein is known to produce a stronger curd in milk. It is also one of the major milk allergens in cows' milk. The alpha-s1 casein makes up 45% of the total protein present in cows' milk on average, while a study in New Zealand has found the alpha-s1 casein to make up 3% of protein in goats' milk, though it has been recorded to be up to 10% of the total protein. As goats' milk has considerably less alpha-s1 casein, it produces a softer curd and can be digested faster.

One other reason that goats' milk is easier to digest than cows' milk are the levels of medium chain triglycerides (MCTs) present . MCTs are a class of fatty acid and goats' milk has more MCTs than cows' milk. They are shorter in length than the normal long-chain fatty acids found in most other fats and oils, hence their name. They are also different from other fats in that they have a slightly lower calorie content and they are more rapidly absorbed and burned as energy, resembling carbohydrate more than fat. MCTs also have the ability to inhibit and dissolve cholesterol deposits. As they are more rapidly absorbed, they are easier to digest.

Goats' milk is a nutritious food tolerated by most people. The lower allergenicity of goats' milk has been widely reported in practice, but it has frequently been dismissed by health professionals due to lack of scientific evidence. However, recent research has suggested reasons for some of the perceived hypoallergenic properties of goats' milk. Several studies have discovered that the major allergens in cows' milk are the alpha-s1 casein protein and the beta-lactoglobulin whey protein. Resistance to digestion is a key determinant of a protein's allergenicity. Beta-lactoglobulin has been shown to be the most resistant protein during digestion. Whilst goats' milk contains a similar amount of beta-lactoglobulin to cows' milk, it is digested more rapidly in goats' milk. This leaves a less intact protein remaining in the intestine after ingestion and lessens the quantity of beta-lactoglobulin available to cause an allergic reaction.

As mentioned previously, goats' milk contains less alpha-s1 casein than cows' milk, making it less allergenic. Goats' milk contains less lactose than cows' milk, another common allergen. It also has a higher buffering capacity than cow milk. Buffering capacity is the ability of a solution to resist change in its pH levels when subjected to changes in pH conditions, eg adding an acidic solution to an alkaline solution. Goats' milk has a higher buffering capacity at the pH conditions in the stomach. Subsequently, as milk is an alkaline substance, drinking it reduces the pH level in the stomach. As goat milk has a higher buffering capacity, it lowers the pH level in the stomach more than cow milk. This is important in the treatment of stomach ulcers.

Goats' milk is a natural source of many nutrients. It contains protein; including amino acids, fat; including essential fatty acids, the carbohydrate lactose, as well as many vitamins and minerals, including calcium, phosphorus, iodine and niacin. To see the difference in the levels of various vitamins and minerals between the milk types, as well as other nutritional information, see the table in the next section. Studies performed by Aliaga (2000) and Barrionuevo et al (2002) have shown that the micronutrients in goats' milk are more readily absorbed than those in cow milk. This has been shown to be true for iron, calcium and copper. Goats' milk contains more of these minerals than cow's milk, but the enhanced micronutrient absorption of goats' milk means that we absorb a larger proportion of them compared to cows' milk, giving consumers double the benefits.

As you can see, goats' milk has many benefits over cows' milk, including lower allergenicity, enhanced digestibility and higher levels of many micronutrients. Whilst this article contains some involved chemistry in understanding the composition of both goats' and cows' milk, the message is simple. Goats' milk is better for you so drink up!

there seems to be a lot of innacurate statements made about goats milk ...... the evidence is in trying it and there are many people who have found they tolerate goats milk but not cows milk

but we all know the cows milk producers are a very powerful group

and more people in the world drink goats milk than do cows milk

kozz

diamondheart · 09-03-2006, 07:34 PM

So what if casein is not your problem with dairy, nor lactose? There is something in dairy that I seem to react to that is beyond lactose. I can eat the fake cheeses that have casein, no problem. I can also eat ghee, which has all the milk solids removed. I have tested negative for goat dairy with muscle testing, so I haven't ever tried any of the goat dairy products recently, though I love goat cheese!

I went out to dinner recently, and had pork chop marsala at Carrabba's even though they cooked the sauce in butter. I love this dish and couldn't resist. Very soon after, I could feel my sinuses producing mucus and feeling irritated, so I'm definitely getting somekind of reaction from the dairy. It did clear up pretty quickly though.

I'm also curious what the hormone contents of goat dairy are compared to cow dairy, and I'm not talking about growth hormones. Usually, dairy has elevated estrogens and progesterones from the lactating animal. Or, sometimes these hormones are given to animals to produce milk at times they normally wouldn't be lactating. I can't have any introduced female hormones because of my body's tendency towards uterine fibroids. These hormones just make the fibroids grow. Now I'm remembering that I did research goat dairy, and came to the conclusion that I couldn't get around the estrogen/progesterone problem with goats compared to cows.

I really wish I could have dairy again, but I think I'll wait until menopause! I really don't want to have another surgery to remove fibroids if I can help it!

Claire

KimS · 09-04-2006, 06:15 AM

I have been touting goat milk for about 3 years (almost 4

) after realizing that dd reacted to cow dairy.

However, I began to suspect she was still reacting, albeit much less, many months ago. It took a while to go dairy free so that we could challenge her and get a clear picture of reaction. However, this summer, after 3 months off all dairy, she went to stay at Granny's for a week and sufferred enuresis. They admitted that they fed her goat dairy even after I told them not to let her have ANY! SHEESH... Like someone else said on another thread, "I know, I know better."

So we're off all dairy and starting over and will probably rechallenge after Christmas to make sure that they didn't feed her cow dairy but wouldn't admit it because they were already in trouble about the goat dairy and trying to feed her off a gluten BBQ (she corrected them on that before she got glutened - Thank goodness!).

I must say though, that both children seemed to have had an enormous growth spurt since we have been off all dairy which is unusual in the summer after the winter wheat has been taken off and the children seem to slow in growth (in previous years).

Hmmmm!! Lots to think about.

turner · 09-04-2006, 03:01 PM

Thanks Kozz for all that info. I really wondered about this, because it is termed the foster milk, all animals can eat goats milk, but really only cows can eat cows milk. The greeks raised it to the heavens because of this, or so I've read.
Seems I found my own answer though, yesterday had a really bad stomach ach all day, my body totally aches all over, and I pretty much feel ughhhh!!!!!!!!! Mind you, this took about 4 days to appear

!So back to no dairy, sniff

I guess I'll quite coffee too, don't like it black, whats next...............
Another things is I think I was also glutened with dental whitener. You know the stuff you paint on your teeth. Never even thought till after using it three times, then of course its to late, and I'm wondering what is the gel made from. Of course no ingredients, makes me mad they don't put on common food allergian on the package, yet I'm sure if peanuts were used they would. So I make a note to self "never stick anything in mouth with out first thinking"

I'm pretty sure it was the milk, but I don't think I'll use the whitener till I know more.
Anyways thanks everyone, I guess its back to the basics, Patricia

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