[SarahO]

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There are different strains of Lyme disease all over the world.

More and more, they have found ONE borrelia species WAY across the world where they didn't expect it. For example, a European Borrelia species has been found in Atlantic Coast seabirds and their ticks. Borrelia garinii, which was only thought to exist in Europe and is highly neurotropic. So if someone HAD borrelia garinii in the USA they would test negative, because the test strain is borrelia burgdorferi- the Shelter Island, NY strain.

Borrelia Burgdorferi is in the USA.

Borrelia Afzeli & Borrelia Garinii are all through Europe- and Garinii in the USA.

Borrelia Valaisiana, which was discovered in Russia, has been found in China.

Borrelia Sinica is found in China.

Borrelia Bissetti is found in California and in Illinois and will make people test negative to the main test USA strain more often. The main test strain in the USA is based on the New York SHELTER ISLAND strain.

When you look at the list of strains, most are named after where they were found, thus something starting with CA can be assumed to have been found in CA, and something starting MI was found in Michigan. This is standard, although there is deviation.

There is a WISCONSIN STRAIN called the KETTLE FOREST STRAIN which will tests negative on the standard tests.

RF Borrelia Strains

RF borrelia strains are Relapsing Fever Spirochetes. Relapsing Fever is often an illness very distinct from Lyme disease, but NOT ALWAYS. In California there is Borrelia parkeri, Borrelia Hermsii. AND BORRELIA MIYAMOTOI.

Borrelia Miyomotoi, an RF strain, was originally found in Japan. It is an RF strain but symptomatically more like Lyme than other RF strains.

So if you live in CA, you could be infected with what TBDs?

* WA1 Babesiosis (but you will tend to get tested for B Microti, which has never once been documented in CA, because the clinicians don't know the science!)
* 9 different kinds of Bartonella, all negative to other tests
* 2 kinds of Ehrlichiosis- HME & HGE
* Powassan Virus, a flavivirus
* Colorado Tick Fever, also a virus
* an RF borrelia- Parkeri, Hermsii or Miyamotoi
* a Bb ss or sl borrelia- Burgdorferi or BIssetti or OTHERS

This is all potentially from ONE tick bite. The Powassan virus transmits in less than 15 minutes. They have never studied transmission times for many of these infections. Lyme is often 24-48 hours of tick attachment, but not always. Incorrect tick removal can facilitate transmission.

And these are only the beginnings. They are just beginning to learn about TBDs. Pasteurella has been found in ticks in Egypt and Italy! And many other microbes which all cause different illnesses.

No wonder Pliny the Elder, naturalist extraordinaire, said somewhere between 29 and 72 A.D., "Ill-favored ticks- the foulest and nastiest creatures that be!"

IF YOU GO TO PUBMED, to TAXONOMY you can look up Borrelia, here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy...tax.cgi?id=138

IMPORTANT: This list is NOT all-inclusive!!!

The listing includes most of the Borrelia species, including RF spirochetes. We have had 2 people with RF species in our local group- symptomatically they were indistinguishable from other people in the group, they were chronic RF cases. They were distinguishable in outcome unfortunately- everyone else who has done longterm abx in our group has had good outcomes, both of them did badly, one died, one never recovered to my knowledge.

Borrelia anserina Borrelia barbouri Borrelia burgdorferi group Borrelia afzelii Borrelia afzelii ACA-1
Borrelia afzelii K78 Borrelia afzelii PKo Borrelia andersonii Borrelia bissettii Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme disease spirochete)
Borrelia burgdorferi 118a Borrelia burgdorferi 156a Borrelia burgdorferi 72a Borrelia burgdorferi 94a
Borrelia burgdorferi B31 Borrelia burgdorferi Bol26 Borrelia burgdorferi ZS7 Borrelia californiensis
Borrelia garinii Borrelia garinii PBi Borrelia genomosp. 1 Borrelia genomosp. 2 Borrelia japonica
Borrelia lusitaniae Borrelia spielmanii Borrelia tanukii Borrelia turdi Borrelia valaisiana Borrelia valaisiana VS116
Candidatus Borrelia texasensis Borrelia sp. AA4Pool Borrelia sp. AI-1 Borrelia sp. B31 Borrelia sp. BC-1
Borrelia sp. CA1133 Borrelia sp. CA1176 Borrelia sp. CA128 Borrelia sp. CA13 Borrelia sp. CA134
Borrelia sp. CA142 Borrelia sp. CA20 Borrelia sp. CA22 Borrelia sp. CA27 Borrelia sp. CA28
Borrelia sp. CA29 Borrelia sp. CA31 Borrelia sp. CA33 Borrelia sp. CA370 Borrelia sp. CA372
Borrelia sp. CA378 Borrelia sp. CA388 Borrelia sp. CA393 Borrelia sp. CA394 Borrelia sp. CA395
Borrelia sp. CA399 Borrelia sp. CA400 Borrelia sp. CA401 Borrelia sp. CA402 Borrelia sp. CA404
Borrelia sp. CA411 Borrelia sp. CA426 Borrelia sp. CA443 Borrelia sp. CA446 Borrelia sp. CA448
Borrelia sp. CA462 Borrelia sp. CA468 Borrelia sp. CA502 Borrelia sp. CA504 Borrelia sp. CA507
Borrelia sp. CA547 Borrelia sp. CA552 Borrelia sp. CA8 Borrelia sp. D22 Borrelia sp. D35
Borrelia sp. FD-1 Borrelia sp. FL18 Borrelia sp. FL27 Borrelia sp. FL35 Borrelia sp. FL42
Borrelia sp. HN6 Borrelia sp. HN7 Borrelia sp. HN8 Borrelia sp. HNM13 Borrelia sp. HNM14
Borrelia sp. HNM19 Borrelia sp. IA1Borrelia sp. Ir-3519 Borrelia sp. Ir-4721 Borrelia sp. Ir-4812
Borrelia sp. Ir-5215 Borrelia sp. LV5 Borrelia sp. MI-2 Borrelia sp. MI-5 Borrelia sp. MI-6
Borrelia sp. MI-8 Borrelia sp. MI-9 Borrelia sp. MOD-1 Borrelia sp. MOD-5 Borrelia sp. MOK-3a
Borrelia sp. MOS-1b
Borrelia sp. NE49
Borrelia sp. NE581
Borrelia sp. PHaP
Borrelia sp. PSigII
Borrelia sp. SCGT-10
Borrelia sp. SCGT-8a
Borrelia sp. SCI-2
Borrelia sp. SCW-30h
Borrelia sp. SI-1
Borrelia sp. SI-10
Borrelia sp. SM-1
Borrelia sp. W97F51
Borrelia sp. Z41293
Borrelia sp. Z41493
environmental samples
uncultured Borrelia burgdorferi group bacterium
Borrelia coriaceae
Borrelia crocidurae
Borrelia duttonii
Borrelia duttonii Ly
Borrelia hermsii
Borrelia hermsii DAH
Borrelia hispanica
Borrelia lonestari
Borrelia miyamotoi
Borrelia parkeri
Borrelia persica
Borrelia recurrentis
Borrelia recurrentis A1
Borrelia sinica
Borrelia theileri
Borrelia turcica
Borrelia turicatae
Borrelia turicatae 91E135
Borrelia sp.
Borrelia sp. 'Lake Gaillard'
Borrelia sp. 000133
Borrelia sp. 010298
Borrelia sp. 10MT
Borrelia sp. 5145
Borrelia sp. 57Nsk
Borrelia sp. 5MT
Borrelia sp. 6T04-2
Borrelia sp. BR
Borrelia sp. BR 2007
Borrelia sp. C5-N52
Borrelia sp. CB-A1
Borrelia sp. CB-A11
Borrelia sp. CB-A3
Borrelia sp. EFL-S0100110
Borrelia sp. IK/23
Borrelia sp. IM/16
Borrelia sp. IM/19
Borrelia sp. KR1
Borrelia sp. KR3
Borrelia sp. LB-2001
Borrelia sp. LB-M56
Borrelia sp. LB-W100
Borrelia sp. MK-N61
Borrelia sp. NR-N8
Borrelia sp. OkME1
Borrelia sp. PAnz
Borrelia sp. PJes
Borrelia sp. PMai
Borrelia sp. PMew
Borrelia sp. R57
Borrelia sp. strain Spain
Borrelia sp. TA1
Borrelia sp. TM
Borrelia sp. TM1
Borrelia sp. TM2
environmental samples
uncultured Borrelia sp.

[Katje]

I didn't know there were a lot of strains, but I was tested by Dr. Steven Phillips in CT. I had moved to the US from Germany. He found a few strains there were german which were known to cause MS like symptoms including lesions showing up on a MRI.

I was put on 9 months of IV antibiotics. I didnt think the antiobiotics did anything for me early on, but it's been 10 years ago and I have no symptoms and not disabled unlike many others who suffer from MS.


Unfortunatly I did recently have an attack, but I have recovered.

[SarahO]

Originally Posted by Katje

I didn't know there were a lot of strains, but I was tested by Dr. Steven Phillips in CT. I had moved to the US from Germany. He found a few strains there were german which were known to cause MS like symptoms including lesions showing up on a MRI.

I was put on 9 months of IV antibiotics. I didnt think the antiobiotics did anything for me early on, but it's been 10 years ago and I have no symptoms and not disabled unlike many others who suffer from MS.


Unfortunatly I did recently have an attack, but I have recovered.

YUP!*))! Philips is a good LLMD*)!! Lyme can definitely cause MS, and it can definitely re-emerge ten years later. I am very glad you recovered!!!!!!

When I was 20 they thought I had lupus for a year, but it went away with abx for walking pneumonia longterm- and 8 years later I got a tick bite, rash and got ALL my "lupus" symptoms back- AND a whole bunch of worse neuro
stuff, MS, ALS, Parkie type symptoms.

10 years ago even good LLMDs did not tend to test for all the coinfections- they have learned so much ths past 10 years!!! These days oyu would be tested for Ehrlichiosis & Babesiosis & Bartonella- were you ever? It sounds like oyu have accepted an MS diagnosis- have you? Are you getting treated by an MS doc??? Philips still treats, he is a nice guy, haven't met him but he is on a group I am on!!!

Best wishes,
Sarah

[Katje]

I have accepted a MS dx. I wasnt sure of the anti biotics helped me or not so I went to a MS clinic to be dx years ago. My first MRI even stated I have lyme ike lesions vs those consistant with MS, but I insisited on getting MS treatment.

Recently I have looked into stem cell treatment, even though I have no disability. My husband wanted me to try tysabri a new MS therapy. I considered it for a week then I decided I just didnt want that poison in my system and the people on it almost act crazy to me. So right now I am just waiting to have my baby and decide what I want to do as far as treatment is concerned.

[SarahO]

Originally Posted by Katje

I have accepted a MS dx. I wasnt sure of the anti biotics helped me or not so I went to a MS clinic to be dx years ago. My first MRI even stated I have lyme ike lesions vs those consistant with MS, but I insisited on getting MS treatment.

Recently I have looked into stem cell treatment, even though I have no disability. My husband wanted me to try tysabri a new MS therapy. I considered it for a week then I decided I just didnt want that poison in my system and the people on it almost act crazy to me. So right now I am just waiting to have my baby and decide what I want to do as far as treatment is concerned.

You know that if it is Lyme that can be congenitally trasnmitted, so it is no longer just a question of a treatment decision for yourself!!! My older daughter was infected by me either congenitally or through breastfeeding, she was on antibiotics for 3 years and it damaged a heart valve- she & I both developed MVP but her was progressively worse for a while (until meds for Babesiosis and hers got betetr with that!). But she had an autistic presentation- and then went back to normal on abx right when she started them- just stayed blood positive for Babs for 9 months until she went negative- ANYWAY, I don't envy your situation, I am glad to haev Lyme. They were going to diagnose me with something like MS, Parkinsons or ALS. My rheumie told me they were waiting for my "progressive multi-system neurological disease triggered by post-lyme syndrome" to DEFINE itself and I asked her, "Wait, you mean like MS or Parkinsons or-" and she said, "Exactly but some never do, you have symptoms of both of those." And they KNEW I had Lyme, KNEW I ahd tick bite and then all that *!&! I was fatigued and overwhelmed and mad as heck. I am grateful to have LYme because I get to live a normal life again. We have had so many people in our support group who were under-treated after tick bite develop MS that I myself have no doubt as to it's causation in some people!!

But they are making wonderful treatments for MS these days and I hope you are successful with them!!!
very sincerely,
Sarah

[angels in the midst]

Originally Posted by SarahO

You know that if it is Lyme that can be congenitally trasnmitted, so it is no longer just a question of a treatment decision for yourself!!! My older daughter was infected by me either congenitally or through breastfeeding, she was on antibiotics for 3 years and it damaged a heart valve- she & I both developed MVP but her was progressively worse for a while (until meds for Babesiosis and hers got betetr with that!). But she had an autistic presentation- and then went back to normal on abx right when she started them- just stayed blood positive for Babs for 9 months until she went negative- ANYWAY, I don't envy your situation, I am glad to haev Lyme. They were going to diagnose me with something like MS, Parkinsons or ALS. My rheumie told me they were waiting for my "progressive multi-system neurological disease triggered by post-lyme syndrome" to DEFINE itself and I asked her, "Wait, you mean like MS or Parkinsons or-" and she said, "Exactly but some never do, you have symptoms of both of those." And they KNEW I had Lyme, KNEW I ahd tick bite and then all that *!&! I was fatigued and overwhelmed and mad as heck. I am grateful to have LYme because I get to live a normal life again. We have had so many people in our support group who were under-treated after tick bite develop MS that I myself have no doubt as to it's causation in some people!!

But they are making wonderful treatments for MS these days and I hope you are successful with them!!!
very sincerely,
Sarah

Sarah,
I have a friend who is in the hospital (subacute) because he almost died over a month ago. No one yet can come up with an answer. They are saying, MAYBE, ALS. He lived in Indiana for many years and started to get sick about 2 yrs ago. He currently resides in CA. He has lost over 60 lbs. looks like a skeleton with a trache and feeding tube. The doctor said that it is up to him and family and friends to encourage him to get well.
First he had cramping in his legs so bad that he could hardly walk, pain in his fingers, trouble breathing, panting the last I seen him, hurting in the esphophegus and trouble swallowing. Are those any signs of lyme disease? The tested him for everything and he is clean as a whistle. So now what? Just needing some feedback. Thanks Angels

[SarahO]

Originally Posted by angels in the midst

Sarah,
I have a friend who is in the hospital (subacute) because he almost died over a month ago. No one yet can come up with an answer. They are saying, MAYBE, ALS. He lived in Indiana for many years and started to get sick about 2 yrs ago. He currently resides in CA. He has lost over 60 lbs. looks like a skeleton with a trache and feeding tube. The doctor said that it is up to him and family and friends to encourage him to get well.
First he had cramping in his legs so bad that he could hardly walk, pain in his fingers, trouble breathing, panting the last I seen him, hurting in the esphophegus and trouble swallowing. Are those any signs of lyme disease? The tested him for everything and he is clean as a whistle. So now what? Just needing some feedback. Thanks Angels

Yes it could definitely be Lyme or TBDs. People with Lyme can be truly seronegative. Lyme bacteria are in the micro range of microscopic- you can fit 100,000 spirochetes in a centimeter and you only need a handful for infection or even less!!! They can harbor in fibroblasts during antibiotic treatment- Mark Klempner proved that- one of the most conservative Lyme guys out there- and Ehrlichiosis is often seronegative, even in FATAL cases.

SO YES, these are tissue sequestering organisms that do not necessarily yield positive tests, it is still possible.