I have a friend, who's daughter has what looks like seizures.

But they aren't diagnosing seizures, because the eegs' are showing
normal. But all signs are pointing to this. But someone said it
sounds a lot like movement disorders.

I have no clue, can you help us.

She has smell senses, and goes out. Also has twitches, movements,
focals and eyes just don't focus, and then of course just shows the signs
of a seizure that looks complex partial.

I'm drawing a blank as to what they present as right now.

The neuro, says they are anxiety disorders, but she has them even
in sleep, so its not making sense, she also has autism.
Donna

Hard to say from what you've written.

It is not at all uncommon for children who have autism to have various different types of movements including tics and stereotyped movements. Some children with tic disorders can have problems that may appear to other people as if their eyes are not focused. My son is on autism spectrum and also has another condition that affects movement and a lot of his eye tics involved movement of the actual eye balls, not just his eye lids. Plus he used to "space out" a lot when younger which could have possibly looked like seizure activity to onlookers, but was actually something else altogether.

Some people who have tics can tic in their sleep despite some very old information that's still around online saying that tics are not present in sleep. That old information is not correct.

Not sure what you mean exacly by "She has smell senses, and goes out". Sensory issues are also common in autism however, if she has a sudden disturbance of smell (or taste?) and then passes out, then this has nothing to do with autism or tics.

If this was my child I'd be getting another opinion. If I'm reading your message correctly and the child is in fact passing out then I'd be looking into that as fast as I could. As far as I know, seizures are not uncommon in children on autism spectrum either.

As far as anxiety issues are concerned, that's not uncommon in a lot of these conditions either. I have full blown panic attacks, but have never passed out from one yet, although I have felt as if I was dying. They certainly do affect breathing with hyperventilation though, which in turn affects heart beat and a lot of other things. I even get an aura prior to my anxiety attacks which does heighten my senses... a little like before I get a migraine. In fact some of the sensory activity that I get prior to both has often made me wonder about seizure activity for myself.

I know little from experience about seizure disorders, apart from what I've learned in regard to their association with other conditions in my own family. I would suggest perhaps reposting over on the Epilepsy board here to see if this rings any bells to everyone over there.

As I said, I'd not be putting this down to anxiety or to a movement disorder if she's passing out totally, but I'm not sure if you meant that she is doing that.

Let us know what happens.

I don't know a lot about movement disorders. I get myoclonus jerking, a involuntary jerking of my legs, preventing me from walking. I also cannot stand because my legs unlock and buckle. It is triggered in me by dizziness, and caused from brain stem damages (as far as I can figure out) as a result of an adult onset leukodystrophy. It happens too with people with MS, but is not one of the presenting symptoms. Certain lights will set me off. Looking up for too long will also. The low blood pressure dizziness, when going from sitting to standing will trigger me.
It is something like hiccups. I get those everyday too. But I am sorry I do not know much about movement disorders. What I have is just one of my many symptoms, and I can live it.

I can relate and here to find out more myself, mine started with panic about going out, ocd, that was becoming very strange, moving my hand in a certain way, flapping right arm i couldn't control, slured speech, twitching face, lack of co ordination, long periods of time i can't acount for, then a lump in my throat, that eventually has progressed to having drink in my mouth and not reaisinf i've not swallowed, it takes intense concentration, sometimes my eyelids won't open, sometimes won't close so long period i don't sleep.. Finally i actually had a general seizue in casualty and atlast it was initially taken seriously as i was unconscious for 8 hrs, admitted and put on drips, refered to neurology. They have tried to rule out organic reasons, though i am waiting for EEG and MRI results, i think it is trauma related as i have been through the most traumatic abusive treatment with local services, who don't believe in DID. But i was diagnosed with that at a trauma unit two and a half years ago. No though i have no control over switches, and seem to be in a constant state of terror. I've had infections mainly sinus and respiritory every month for over a year, can't leave the house and cronically tired but can't sleep. What is wrong with me, and why won't anyone do anything, it is so distressing, as i've never had anything like this before, its also frightening for my family, i am trying to research the brain and work out what could be happening, but also would like to know if something like this can happen due to trauma and will i ever function again. I certainly understand your worries and hope that it is not left so long that the symptoms worsen, grateful for any feedback Fractured mind

donna...on the epilepsy forum...there. are posts about the smell thing before a seizure. let me got find them..and i'll post the links.

i couldn';t find the right thread. but hopefully ellie or julie will see this. i fnot...i'll pm them.

Donna,

These symptoms sound familiar and remind me of some of my daughter's seizure symptoms.

My daughter smelled things. She had tics... head to shoulder and facial grimaces. Vocal tics, too... just random shout outs. She had head drops, torso drops and sways, knee buckling. She had repetitive mannerisms like chewing her tongue. Her biggest seizures looked like she was passing out... she'd arch her back, she'd moan and even call for me, and her eyes rolled up and eyelids fluttered..with just mild twitching afterward. Sometimes she'd have confused, silly conversation, or act somewhat drunken/obnoxious. She also had what seemed to be involuntary twisting of her torso...sometimes she'd practically twist right out of her chair. She had awareness of that, but said it just felt really 'tight'. I think they were muscle spasms and she could not really control the twisting. It was so hard to watch all this!.

Her neurologist was not willing to say all those symptoms were directly related to seizure, but I can tell you they occured during the months her seizures first presented.... and stopped when her seizures were controlled and never reappeared. In fact, he gave me the shoulder shrug / deer in the headlights look in regard to the torso twisting and said he didn't think it was seizure related. So, whether she had seizures and tics, myoclonus, dystonia, or everything was related to the seizures... I don't know. Her only official dx was generalized seizure disorder.

Just because she doesn't show abnormalties on an EEG...at the time the EEG is done...does not mean she isn't having seizures. Of course, without the EEG there is no proof they are seizures... and we know our doctors all like proof. I hope there will be some repeat EEG's, preferably ASAP after one of the bigger events or if the events worsen...not always possible to get right in, I know.

During my daughters first EEG they were able to provoke a seizure with flashing lights. A subsequent EEG was normal, followed by one that was abnormal but did not show seizures. SO... it is all about what is happening at the time of the EEG.

I can't say for sure these are seizures, but I agree with you that they sure do sound like seizures.

I know at the time this was all happening to my daughter, I did find that various nutritional deficiencies can cause some movement related symptoms (like tics, myoclonus, and dystonia~ as well as seizures) and I'm sure there are many other diagnostic possibilities, too. Might not hurt to check in on a Tourette Syndrome board, either. I know the people there were helpful to me, as I tried to understand the difference between tics and seizures.

I wouldn't want to accept the total answer is anxiety, though.

Cara

Thanks Cara

I totally agree. And I'm hoping she got into another specialist the
other day. She has had 3 EEG's and one VEEG that was a week long.

But I don't plan on letting her mother give up, but neither does she,
but she also has lots of things herself going on so its really a mess.
And called to get her in when its happening is almost impossible.
THey are on state insurance and some of the worse time, the stupid
state was changing their insurance and no one would say who had them,
so they weren't exactly covered.

So even then they couldn't get seen.

So I'll be back to update.

Donna

Hi,
Look up Myoclonic seizures and Grand Malls seizures. My symptoms match these 100%.

for Lyme disease and Babesiosis, wihch can both cause seizures including partial complex seizures and myoclonus and all sorts of things-

There is lots of Lyme in California, I don't know where you are but Lyme is in 48 states-

hello dear dmom,
perhaps this may help you,
please read at this link -
http://www.bcm.edu/ilru/html/publica...CS.html#causes

here is just abit of the reading
In multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) a person develops markedly negative reactions to everyday chemical exposures. These include exposures to pesticides in buildings, in gardens, on our food, and on pets; chemical cleaners; petrochemical heating systems; paints; perfumes; industrial emissions; and a myriad of others. We have been conditioned to think of these exposures as being "normal" and inconsequential, but for a growing portion of the population they are not. The condition of MCS develops in two stages induction and triggering. In induction some contact with chemicals causes the person to sensitize to at least one class of chemicals. This contact can be one large chemical exposure such as a chemical spill or a pesticide application, or it can be a low-level, ongoing exposure such as one might experience in a workplace with poor ventilation combined with copy fumes, perfume, and chemical cleaners. After induction the person develops sensitivity to the chemical that was involved in the exposure and to other related chemicals. Thereafter the person will respond with symptoms when exposed to any of this class of chemicals. This is called "triggering." The sensitivities developed are usually more or less permanent, although the kind and intensity of reactions may vary. In what is called the "spreading phenomenon" the sensitivities tend to spread over time to other related chemicals and also to other classes of chemicals. The primary way to avoid reactions once sensitivities have developed is to avoid contact with the triggers. With each new sensitivity this becomes more difficult and the person's access becomes more limited. For this reason one of the major goals in helping people with MCS is to try to limit the spreading by reducing chemical exposures in order to preserve what tolerance the person still has. Unfortunately it is not unusual for people developing MCS to continue to expose themselves to chemicals because at first they do not link their reactions to chemical exposures and/or do not know that repeated exposures can cause a worsening or spreading of their sensitivities.

signs of carbon monoxide poisoning

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Symptoms
Exposure to carbon monoxide is most commonly accompanied by the following symptoms:

http://www.atlantichyperbaric.com/he...-poisoning.htm

Headache
Dizziness
Nausea
Flu-like symptoms, fatigue
Shortness of breath
Chest pain
Confusion
Hallucinations
Vomiting
Visual changes
Fainting
Seizure
Memory and walking problems ...


peace to your heart,
tena