Supplements NOT to Take with MS

Kitty · 03-27-2012, 05:48 PM

I got my copy of the MSCA (Multiple Sclerosis Center of Atlanta) Spring 2012 newsletter today.

It can be viewed online at http://www.mscatl.org/file/11.Spring2012Newsletter.pdf.

There's an article about supplements and which ones people with MS should not take (it's on page 3 at the bottom left of the page).

Coenzyme Q10, Melatonin, Grape Seed Extract, Vitamin A and Vitamin C (greater than 1,000 mg/day) are a few of the supplements listed that surprised me. The reason they gave was that these have the potential to stimulate the immune system or interfere with medication.

Now I'm wondering if I should stop taking my multi-vitamin. My Neuro has never mentioned anything about these supplements.

I take, in addition to a multi-vitamin, Astaxanthin 10mg. daily and Vitamin D3 10,000 IU daily. To be honest I haven't felt any different with it than I did without it but that doesn't mean it's not having some benefit.

There is also a list of supplements that interact negatively with steroids.

misshayleesmom · 03-27-2012, 06:01 PM

Wow,

I didn't know that.
Something to consider for later.

Cindy

jackD · 03-27-2012, 07:55 PM

Ha Ha Ha. Yep! And I guess they have a bridge to sell me.

For example I have researched "pine bark extract" Pycnogenol and found that it helps a damaged/poorly functioning immune system get restored or function at good efficient levels but it does not really stimulate the immune system as such.

It can stop or lessen the activity of some deadly viruses. It can help some t-cells do their "JOB" in the proper level but I have not found any evidence to indicate it "boosts" the immune system by producing things like Gamma Interferon or IL-12.

In fact Pycnogenol lowers the MMP-9 levels which lowers Myelin damage. I have posted a great about about the dammage MMP-9s do in RR MS.

They just needed stuff/pseudo info to post in their website.

They need to define/and defend what constitutes "stimulate the immune system" and give NIH-NLM (PubMed) links to allow readers to determine the validity of their "stimulate the immune system" conclusions.

jackD

Quote:

Free Radic Biol Med. 2000 Jan 15;28(2):219-27.

Pine bark extract pycnogenol downregulates IFN-gamma-induced adhesion of T cells to human keratinocytes by inhibiting inducible ICAM-1 expression.

Bito T, Roy S, Sen CK, Packer L.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley 94720-3200, USA.

Expression of intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1) is necessary for leukocyte/keratinocyte interactions. Upregulation of ICAM-1 expression in keratinocytes has been observed in several inflammatory dermatoses, such as psoriasis, atopic dermatitis, and lupus erythematosus. Inflammatory cytokines, such as interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), upregulate ICAM-1 expression in keratinocytes. Because of potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties of the French maritime pine bark extract, Pycnogenol (Horphag Research, Geneva, Switzerland), its effects were investigated on the interaction of T cells with keratinocytes after activation with IFN-gamma and the molecular mechanisms involved in such interactions. Studies were performed using a human keratinocyte cell line, HaCaT. Cell adhesion in the presence of IFN-gamma was studied using a coculture assay. Treatment of HaCaT cells with 20 U/ml IFN-gamma for 24 h markedly induced adherence of Jurkat T cells to HaCaT cells. PYC pretreatment (50 microg/ml, 12 h) significantly inhibited IFN-gamma induced adherence of T cells to HaCaT cells (p < .01). ICAM-1 plays a major role in the IFN-gamma-induced adherence of T cells to keratinocytes. Thus, the effect of PYC on IFN-gamma-induced ICAM-1 expression was investigated as well. Pretreatment of HaCaT cells with PYC significantly inhibited IFN-gamma-induced expression of ICAM-1 expression in HaCaT cells. The downregulation of inducible ICAM-1 expression by PYC was both dose and time dependent. A 50 microg/ml dose of PYC and a 12 h pretreatment time (i.e., before activation with IFN-gamma) provided maximal (approximately 70%) inhibition of inducible ICAM-1 expression in HaCaT cells. Gamma-activated sequence present on the ICAM-1 gene confers IFN-gamma responsiveness in selected cells of epithelial origin (e.g., keratinocytes) that are known to express ICAM-1 on activation with IFN-gamma. Gel-shift assays revealed that PYC inhibits IFN-gamma-mediated activation of Stat1, thus suggesting a transcriptional regulation of inducible ICAM-1 expression by PYC. These results indicate the therapeutic potential of PYC in patients with inflammatory skin disorders.

PMID: 11281289 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Phytother Res. 2001 Feb;15(1):76-8.

From ancient remedies to modern therapeutics: pine bark uses in skin disorders revisited.

Rihn B, Saliou C, Bottin MC, Keith G, Packer L.

Membrane Bioenergetics Group, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-3200, USA. rihn@inrs.fr

The effect of French maritime pine bark extract (PBE) on the gene expression profile of HaCaT human keratinocytes was studied using high density filter arrays. The expression profile of both control and PBE-treated cells was determined. Interestingly, PBE was shown to downregulate both calgranulin A and B genes which are known to be upregulated in psoriasis and various dermatoses. Thus, PBE could be considered in human dermatoses.

Copyright 2001 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 11180529 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2001 Apr;928:141-56.

Inhibition mechanisms of bioflavonoids extracted from the bark of Pinus maritima on the expression of proinflammatory cytokines.

Cho KJ, Yun CH, Packer L, Chung AS.

Department of Biological Sciences, Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Taejon.

The effect of bioflavonoids extracted from the bark of Pinus maritima, Pycnogenol (PYC), on gene expression of the proinflammatory cytokines interleukin-1beta (IL-1beta) and interleukin-2 (IL-2) were investigated in RAW 264.7 cells and Jurkat E6.1 cells, respectively. PYC exerted strong scavenging activities against reactive oxygen species (ROS) generated by H2O2 in RAW 264.7. In situ ELISA, immunoblot analysis, and competitive RT-PCR demonstrated that pretreatment of LPS-stimulated RAW 264.7 cells with PYC dose-dependently reduced both the production of IL-1beta and its mRNA levels. Furthermore, in the same cells, PYC blocked the activation of nuclear factor kappaB (NF-kappaB) and activator protein-1 (AP-1), two major transcription factors centrally involved in IL-1beta gene expression. Concordantly, pretreatment of the cells with PYC abolished the LPS-induced IkappaB degradation. We also investigated the effect of PYC on IL-2 gene expression in phorbol 12-myristate 13acetate plus ionomycin (PMA/Io)-stimulated human T-cell line Jurkat E6.1. PYC inhibited the PMA/Io-induced IL-2 mRNA expression. However, as demonstrated in a reporter gene assay system, the mechanism of IL-2 gene transcriptional regulation by PYC was different from the regulation of IL-1beta. PYC inhibited both NF-AT and AP-1 chloramphenicol acetyltransferase (CAT) activities in transiently transfected Jurkat E6.1, but not NF-kappaB CAT activity. We also found that PYC can destabilize PMA/Io-induced IL-2 mRNA by posttranscriptional regulation. All these results suggest that bioflavonids can be useful therapeutic agents in treating many inflammatory, autoimmune, and cardiovascular diseases based on its diverse action mechanisms.

PMID: 11795505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Mar 15;36(6):811-22.

Antioxidant activity and inhibition of matrix metalloproteinases by metabolites of maritime pine bark extract (pycnogenol).

Grimm T, Schäfer A, Högger P.

Institut für Pharmazie und Lebensmittelchemie, Bayerische Julius-Maximilians-Universität, Würzburg, Germany.

The procyanidin-rich maritime pine bark extract Pycnogenol has well-documented antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity. After oral administration of Pycnogenol two major metabolites are formed in vivo, delta-(3,4-dihydroxyphenyl)-gamma-valerolactone (M1) and delta-(3-methoxy-4-hydroxyphenyl)-gamma-valerolactone (M2). We elucidated the effects of these metabolites on matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and determined their antioxidant activity to understand their contribution to the effects of maritime pine bark extract. We discovered strong inhibitory effects of M1 and M2 toward the activity of MMP-1, MMP-2, and MMP-9. On a microgram-per-milliliter basis both metabolites appeared more active than Pycnogenol. The metabolites were more effective than their metabolic precursor (+)-catechin in MMP inhibition. On a cellular level, we detected highly potent prevention of MMP-9 release by both metabolites, with concentrations of 0.5 microM resulting in about 50% inhibition of MMP-9 secretion. M1 was significantly more effective in superoxide scavenging than (+)-catechin, ascorbic acid, and trolox, while M2 displayed no scavenging activity. Both metabolites exhibited antioxidant activities in a redox-linked colorimetric assay, with M1 being significantly more potent than all other compounds tested. Thus, our data contribute to the comprehension of Pycnogenol effects and provide a rational basis for its use in prophylaxis and therapy of disorders related to imbalanced or excessive MMP activity.

PMID: 14990359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Card Fail. 2007 Nov;13(9):785-91.

French maritime pine bark extract inhibits viral replication and prevents development of viral myocarditis.

Matsumori A, Higuchi H, Shimada M.

Department of Cardiovascular Medicine Kyoto University Graduate School of Medicine, Kyoto, Japan.

BACKGROUND:

French maritime pine bark extract (Pycnogenol) revealed diverse anti-inflammatory actions by an inhibition of NF-kappaB-dependent gene expression. The aim of this study was to determine whether Pycnogenol had a beneficial effect on viral myocarditis in mice.

METHODS AND MATERIALS:

Four-week-old inbred male DBA/2 mice were inoculated intraperitoneally with 10 plaque-forming units (pfu) of the encephalomyocarditis (EMC) virus. Pycnogenol was administered orally at a dose of 1 or 10 mg/kg per day for the histologic study, and 10 or 100 mg/kg for the gene expression study, beginning on the day of viral inoculation.

RESULTS:

The area of myocardial infiltration and necrosis on day 7 was significantly smaller in the hearts of mice treated with Pycnogenol 10 mg/kg (16.2 +/- 8.9% and 19.2 +/- 9.7%, respectively, n = 10, mean +/- SEM) compared with controls (27.6 +/- 15.0% and 30.1 +/- 15.7%, respectively, n = 10, P < .05). There was a nonsignificant trend for less myocardial infiltration in the Pycnogenol 1 mg/kg group. Myocardial virus concentration on day 7 was 8.4 +/- 0.3 x 10(3) pfu/mg in mice treated with 1 mg/kg of Pycnogenol, and 2.7 +/- 0.6 x 10(4) pfu/mg in control mice, and the difference was statistically significant (P < .05). Gene expressions of tumor necrosis factor, type-I procollagen, stem cell factor, and mast cell tryptase were significantly suppressed in the hearts of mice treated with Pycnogenol 100 mg/kg.

CONCLUSIONS:

These results suggest that Pycnogenol exerts its beneficial effects on viral myocarditis by decreasing virus replication, and by suppressing expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines, genes related to cardiac remodeling, and mast cell-related genes in the hearts of mice.

PMID: 17996829 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Panminerva Med. 2010 Jun;52(2 Suppl 1):21-5.

Investigation of Pycnogenol® in combination with coenzymeQ10 in heart failure patients (NYHA II/III).

Belcaro G, Cesarone MR, Dugall M, Hosoi M, Ippolito E, Bavera P, Grossi MG.

Irvine3 Labs, Department Biomedical Sciences, Chieti-Pescara University, Pescara, Italy. cardres@abol.it

In this study we investigated benefits of a Pycnogenol - coenzyme Q10 combination (PycnoQ10) taken as an adjunct to medical treatment in stable heart failure patients. The aim of this single-blinded, 12-week observational study was to provide functional parameters such as exercise capacity, ejection fraction and distal edema.

METHODS:

The essential element for inclusion was a stable level of heart failure within the past three months and stable NYHA class II or III (6 months). The heart failure management was in accordance with AHA guidelines for "best treatment." The treatment and control groups were comparable at baseline. The mean age of the PycnoQ10-treated patients was 61.3+/-7.1 years and 62.1+/-3.7 in the control group. All patients were taking medication and most patients (>75%) used three or more drugs for heart failure treatment. There were two dropouts in the PycnoQ10 treatment group and 6 in the control group (5 NYHA III patients).

RESULTS:

Nine PycnoQ10 treated patients (out of 32) and 3 (out of 21) taking placebo improved NYHA class. Systolic and diastolic pressure as well as heart rate and respiratory rate were significantly lowered with PycnoQ10 as compared to the control group (P<0.05). No significant changes were observed in controls. Heart ejection fraction increased by 22.4% in the treatment group (P<0.05) versus 4.0% in controls. Walking distance on treadmill increased 3.3-fold in PycnoQ10 treated patients (P<0.05) but marginally improved in the control group. Distal edema decreased significantly in PycnoQ10 treated patients and only slightly in controls.

CONCLUSION:

The association of Pycnogenol and CoQ10 may offer an important therapeutic option with a very good tolerability that improves heart failure management without side effects.

PMID: 20657530 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

jackD · 03-27-2012, 11:57 PM

I think that this is the BEST source for GREAT info on supplements.

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/int...other-products

jackD

mrsD · 03-28-2012, 05:22 AM

There is so much misunderstanding about supplements.

Immune stimulating substances typically are herbal. Things like Echinacea, and astragalus.

The things listed on that list are basically antioxidants, like blueberries, and strawberries etc. These scavenge free radicals in the mitochondria and PREVENT cell damage, which would include myelin.

Vit D is now recommended for MS patients!

I tend to refrain from posting here because MS is so confusing.
Now there are some early reports that MS is not really an immune issue but an inflammatory one. That is even more confusing.

So I recommend people do their homework like Jack has posted and then decide for themselves. One does not need massive doses anyway IMO of most supplements. Except for the Vit D so far. Many of us use various things on PN forum here for nerve pain and damage, with very good success. Enough with success to minimize pain, dependence on drugs, and halting of progression.

One can find pros and cons on the net about most controversial subjects, and when that happens, it is up to the individual to decide what is best for themselves.

Dejibo · 03-28-2012, 07:42 AM

Eggs are good for you!
Eggs are bad for you!
Eggs are ok if you have no mare than 3 per week.
Eggs are ok if you only eat the white
Eggs are good for you again! eat all you want.!
Eggs are good, but only if they are organic.
Eggs are good if they are free range.
Eggs are good, but only the yellow.

I find the information can be so confusing, and mind twisting. We just want clear, real, concise information so that we know what to feed our bodies.

its as clear as mud. The MD says CoQ10 is good for you, the MS MD said no, dont take it! Which is it? is this the egg debate all over again?

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