advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2008, 04:00 PM #31
Natalie8's Avatar
Natalie8 Natalie8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 900
15 yr Member
Natalie8 Natalie8 is offline
Member
Natalie8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 900
15 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_express_44 View Post

Transient inflammation of brain lesions often leaves no damage what-so-ever either, and it may take several years before we even notice disability from them (except perhaps temporary effects during an attack). That's why we can have "dozens" of lesions (and not even necessarily be in an attack) . . . yet not feel a thing or have any damage.
Cherie
I'm not sure this is totally accurate based on what I've heard from the various neurologists I have seen and all the medical journal articles I have read. I teach in a university system that has a medical school so I have access to online neuro journals--I've probably read too much of it and given myself a scare. Anyhow, there are still plenty of unknowns with MS and my understanding is that researchers are now making the argument that you can have damage to the brain that is not visible on the MRI. (read some of Dr. Elliot Frohman's research from UT Southwestern Medical School) I'm not sure "transient" really means transient in terms of damage. Just because you can see something or not see something doesn't mean you have a relatively definitive answer as to level of damage or course of disease or even symptoms. Remember there are occasionally people who have no visible lesions on the MRI but seem to have classic MS symptoms. OR you could have lots of lesions and no clinical symptoms (and perhaps no immediate inflammation visible on the MRI) but that doesn't mean your brain is free of any damage. In other words, I don't think that lack of inflammation = lack of damage.
Natalie8 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote

advertisement
Old 04-22-2008, 04:12 PM #32
lady_express_44's Avatar
lady_express_44 lady_express_44 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,300
15 yr Member
lady_express_44 lady_express_44 is offline
Grand Magnate
lady_express_44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,300
15 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie8 View Post
I'm not sure this is totally accurate based on what I've heard from the various neurologists I have seen and all the medical journal articles I have read. I teach in a university system that has a medical school so I have access to online neuro journals--I've probably read too much of it and given myself a scare. Anyhow, there are still plenty of unknowns with MS and my understanding is that researchers are now making the argument that you can have damage to the brain that is not visible on the MRI. (read some of Dr. Elliot Frohman's research from UT Southwestern Medical School) I'm not sure "transient" really means transient in terms of damage. Just because you can see something or not see something doesn't mean you have a relatively definitive answer as to level of damage or course of disease or even symptoms. Remember there are occasionally people who have no visible lesions on the MRI but seem to have classic MS symptoms. OR you could have lots of lesions and no clinical symptoms (and perhaps no immediate inflammation visible on the MRI) but that doesn't mean your brain is free of any damage. In other words, I don't think that lack of inflammation = lack of damage.

I think we are saying the same thing, Natalie . . . but in that particular paragraph I was only referring to "active" lesions that are apparent on a MRI.

What you are saying is what I was trying to get at with my comments about neurodegeneration causing the damage, vs. inflamation. I believe that they recognize our lesions as the inflamation process that is going on, BUT that this is not the whole story. Some people have considerable disability with few lesions, and vice-versa . . . and some researchers currently suspect that is because there is another process going on too (i.e. neurodegeneration).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17397873

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art00002

Or did I misunderstand your point?

Cherie
__________________
I am not a Neurologist, Physician, Nurse, or Hairdresser ... but I have learned that it is not such a great idea to give oneself a haircut after three margaritas
.
lady_express_44 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 04:32 PM #33
Natalie8's Avatar
Natalie8 Natalie8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 900
15 yr Member
Natalie8 Natalie8 is offline
Member
Natalie8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 900
15 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_express_44 View Post
I think we are saying the same thing, Natalie . . . but in that particular paragraph I was only referring to "active" lesions that are apparent on a MRI.

What you are saying is what I was trying to get at with my comments about neurodegeneration causing the damage, vs. inflamation. I believe that they recognize our lesions as the inflamation process that is going on, BUT that this is not the whole story. Some people have considerable disability with few lesions, and vice-versa . . . and some researchers currently suspect that is because there is another process going on too (i.e. neurodegeneration).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17397873

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art00002

Or did I misunderstand your point?

Cherie
Cherie,

Maybe I misunderstood you! Yes, I was suggesting that some other process is going on that isn't really identifiable on the MRI and they aren't even sure what it is. The research I had read said that it is imperative to get on one of the CRABs because there is always damage going on in the brain that just may not be visible on the MRI. That was a scary proposition. No matter what, the uncertainty of this disease is something that I haven't dealt with yet...maybe it's something you never really adjust to?? I find the whole thing still very frightening-- but I've only been diagnosed for 8 months. It seems that all of the unknowns take a tremendous toll on you psychologically.
Natalie8 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 05:00 PM #34
lady_express_44's Avatar
lady_express_44 lady_express_44 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,300
15 yr Member
lady_express_44 lady_express_44 is offline
Grand Magnate
lady_express_44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,300
15 yr Member
Default

Well, they don’t know for sure what our current DMD’s are doing for us, BUT they have proven scientifically that they have the potential to reduce inflammation for some people. What else they might be doing, and/or why, no one really knows.

However, in spite of their effect on a reduction to relapses and/or inflammation, the DMD’s don’t influence ‘disability progression’ to the same degree. For many, they continue to progress with disability at exactly the same pace, even though they appear to be more stable (i.e. less relapses and visible lesions).

So, there is clearly something else to the disease process that the DMD’s aren’t necessarily influencing. The current theory is neurodegeneration, and this is what this Pubmed article is referring to, particularly in the last sentence . . .

"A number of recent magnetic resonance imaging studies have challenged the classical view of multiple sclerosis (MS) as a "two-stage" disease where an early inflammatory demyelinating phase with focal macroscopic lesions formed in the white matter (WM) of the central nervous system is followed by a late neurodegenerative phase, which is believed to be a mere consequence of repeated inflammatory insults and irreversible demyelination. These studies have consistently shown the presence of diffuse normal-appearing WM damage, marked gray matter involvement and significant cortical functional reorganization, as well as the occurrence of the neurodegenerative component of MS from the earliest clinical stages of the disease with only a partial relation to MRI markers of inflammatory demyelination. The present review argues that MS can no longer be viewed as a "two-stage" disease, which suggests that the two pathological components are dissociated in time, but rather as a "simultaneous two-component" disease, where the relative contributions of the various pathological processes of the disease to the development of "fixed" disability, their relationship and their evolution over time need to be clarified. This new view of MS should inform the development of future research protocols to define its actual physiopathology and prompt the institution of early treatment which should ideally target not only inflammatory demyelination, but also the neurodegenerative aspects of the disease, as well as promote neuroprotection and enhance reparative mechanisms and adaptive functional reorganization of the cortex."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lady_express_44 View Post
Cherie
__________________
I am not a Neurologist, Physician, Nurse, or Hairdresser ... but I have learned that it is not such a great idea to give oneself a haircut after three margaritas
.
lady_express_44 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Natalie8 (04-22-2008)
Old 04-22-2008, 05:29 PM #35
Erin524's Avatar
Erin524 Erin524 is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,020
15 yr Member
Erin524 Erin524 is offline
Elder
Erin524's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,020
15 yr Member
Default

It's not so much of a worry as it is a weird, morbid curiousity of what the MS Trolls in my body are going to do to me.

I'm really hoping that I'll be one of those MSers who can make it to old age without any major disabilities or serious problems related to the MS. I dont think that will be the case for me, but I can always hope.

I already am probably going to be the primary caregiver for my mom (she had a contra-coup concussion when she was 17 and was in a coma for 5 weeks. We're now getting a good look at what a TBI can do to a person years down the road)

I'm hoping that my mom and I wont be sharing a primary caregiver...having scooter/wheelchair races in the street in front of the house.


I'm still hoping that the medical-science geeks will invent a machine in my lifetime that you can get into or wave over someone (a'la Star Trek and Stargate) that will cure everything wrong with you. That would be so cool. Get a degenerative neurological disease, no problem, get into the Medical Curer-3000 and you're cured. Break a leg, get it fixed in 10 minutes. Cough up a lung, sit for 30 minutes and regrow the lung.

Of course, that's wishful thinking, but it would be nice if they figure out a cure within the next few years...I could live with a little numbness and occasional vision weirdness if they could find a cure to keep all of us from getting any worse.
__________________
~ Never do anything that you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics. ~ Author Unknown ~

~ "Animals have two functions in society. To taste good and to fit well." ~ Greg Proops, actor ~
Erin524 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SIX lesions AND symptoms, but in limboland? Footprints Multiple Sclerosis 14 05-27-2008 03:31 PM
Lesions and diagnosies molpep Multiple Sclerosis 22 02-28-2008 08:33 AM
Where are you r lesions and how are they affecting you? MamaMonkey Multiple Sclerosis 24 01-30-2008 03:31 PM
Skin Lesions Anyone Else buckwheat Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD and CRPS) 33 08-09-2007 02:45 AM
Insignificant brain lesions? suzyq Multiple Sclerosis 16 05-16-2007 08:10 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.