Myasthenia Gravis For support and discussions on Myasthenia Gravis, Congenital Myasthenic Syndromes and LEMS.


advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2018, 11:25 AM #1
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
Default Sudden Onset of MG

Hi all! I just found this forum, and I'm hoping to find some answers and understanding of this rare disease I have been diagnosed with. Here is my story...

I was an active, healthy, 55 year old female. Seven weeks ago, my vision all of a sudden became jumpy and blurry. I thought something was wrong with my contacts. I went home and started messing with my contacts. The next day my eyelids were swollen and I thought it was because I had messed with my contacts. I realize now that was the "droopy eyelid". Two days later, my face felt numb and I could not raise my eyelids to put on my mascara. Ok, time to call the doctor!

She had three things she wanted to draw blood for, one being MG. Two days later it came back positive. I made an appointment with a neurologist and had a chest scan on my thymus, which showed a tumor. By the time I saw the neurologist a week later, my symptoms had rapidly progressed. I was having trouble chewing, words would get "stuck" in my mouth, my smile was askew, and I was constantly dizzy and nauseous from the triple/jumpy vision. At that point they scheduled me for a thymectomy. The thymectomy was scheduled for two weeks later. By the time I went in for the surgery, I could barely walk across the room or raise my arms. They decided I was too weak to do the surgery. They admitted me to the hospital and gave me IVIG infusions for two days.

The surgery went well, and the tumor was benign. I am now three weeks out of the thymectomy, but the MG is still awful! I am home now and have PT and OT 2-3 times a week. My arms and legs just don't want to work. After I do my PT (which is VERY minimal, like 5 minutes of leg and arm exercises with1 lb. weights) my whole body shakes and convulses for about a half hour. My symptoms seem to change daily and sometimes several times within a day. From eyes, to face, to arms, to legs, sometimes even needing a walker.

Right now I am on 80mg of steroids daily, and 120 mg of Pyridastigmine 4 times a day. I go back to my neurologist next week and I think they will start weening me off the steroid.

This MG has been very hard for me to wrap my head around. Two months ago I was on vacation in Rome climbing the Colosseum stairs with no problem! Now I can't even get down my stairs at home without having to rest when I get to the bottom. I used to swim a half mile or walk 4 miles a day, bicycle, kayak, etc., UGH!

So that's my story, now here are some of my questions...

1. Have any of you heard of anyone whose symptoms came on this quickly?
2. Will it get any better once they start weening me off the steroids?
3. I've heard it can take 2 years before you go into remission after a thymectomy, but do the symptoms lessen before remission?

I'm sure I will have more questions after I post this, but any insight into this "new normal" of mine from the MG Community would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
bchgrl is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
AnnieB3 (11-11-2018)

advertisement
Old 11-11-2018, 09:44 PM #2
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
Smile

Hi, bchgrl. Isn't it fun to have a disease fall in your lap? Not.

I'm glad the tumor was benign. You are lucky to have had such fast help!

A tumor, surgery, recent onset of MG, and steroids can all combine to make MG worse. And the worse MG is, the longer it will take to recover. So give your body time to adjust.

I'm really surprised that you are doing PT if you are so bad, especially given how badly you do afterward. If you are in an unstable situation with MG, they really need to give you some more IVIG. Please call your neuro!!! These are symptoms of nearing a MG crisis.

120 mg of Mestinon at a time can (possibly) flood the neuromuscular junction and cause a cholinergic crisis, where there is too much acetylcholine going to the muscles. Sometimes a lower dose, more often during the day is better.

Mestinon kicks in after about 30 minutes. Two hours after that, the drug wears off. So we get about 2 hours of use out of one dose. Some people take Mestinon every 3 - 4 hours. Please discuss all of this with your neuro, and don't make any changes before doing so.

To answer your questions . . .

1. Yes, MG can come on very suddenly. Or it can come on slowly.
2. No one can predict how MG will progress. You might need another medication, such as Imuran or IVIG.
3. No one can predict the effects of a thymectomy either. About 1/3 improve, 1/3 stay the same, and 1/3 can go into remission (at least that's from studies about a decade ago).

I know that this is tough, going from someone who can do whatever they want to someone who has to manage energy on a daily basis. Learning everything you can about the disease helps.

A person with MG can become temporarily weaker after an activity, such as washing dishes. Resting or taking a nap after doing something helps. And I mean lying down, not sitting. The more someone does, the longer it will take to recover. And those effects can be cumulative.

There are some people on drugs that do perfectly fine, and live a relatively normal life. But some are not so stable. Finding the right mix of drugs and managing MG with common sense and rest will help.

Make sure you have enough sleep (recharge your muscle batteries!). See a pulmonologist to assess your baseline breathing. Neuros and pulmonologists work together in a hospital setting. A pulmy can assess your breathing if you think you are becoming worse, and do an arterial blood gas and O2 readings. Drink lots of water, eat good food, you know the drill. Do everything to keep your body/immune system happy.

Going off of steroids can be tricky. Watch for any signs of increased weakness or signs of an adrenal insufficiency. Make sure that the withdrawal is not too sudden. Just work with your doctors and let them know of any increasing weakness. With MG, the best thing to do is to seek help sooner rather than later.

You need to be patient. Give yourself time to adjust to this new reality. Read up on MG—there's a lot to know about it, including some drugs that are contraindicated.

Home
Muscular Dystrophy Association

Most importantly, I think you need to call your neuro. You sounds as though you are not stable yet. Don't hesitate to go to the hospital or dial 911 if you have symptoms of a MG crisis (not breathing, swallowing, or moving well).

What else do you need help with?

I've had MG my entire life. I won't lie and say that living with the disease is a piece of cake! But a "new normal" is doable. I wish I had a crystal ball to say how the progression of your MG will go. Everyone who has the disease, much like Multiple Sclerosis or other AI disease, is different.

I hope you will go into remission and be fine. But even then, MG can fool us! Just take it easy, and be good to yourself.

Annie
AnnieB3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-12-2018, 10:58 AM #3
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
Default

Annie,
Thank you so much for your insights! I'm sorry you know so much about it, meaning you have struggled with it for years, but happy you can share your knowledge with others.

The PT and OT is also for the thymectomy/sternotomy. My therapists are very cautious about me "overdoing" and stop whenever they see me starting to weaken. I think it's when I do it on my own that it gets bad, even though I try my hardest to not overdue!

I go back to my neurologist Thursday, and I'm going to ask him about the dosage of Pyridastigmine. Everything happened so fast, I have only seen the neurologist the one time at his office, and that was at the initial onset. Of course in the hospital I saw him or someone from his team everyday. I think their thought was to give me 4 weeks post surgery before tweaking my meds. I hope to find out a lot more when I go!


Again, thank you so much!

Kristi
bchgrl is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
AnnieB3 (11-13-2018)
Old 11-12-2018, 10:11 PM #4
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
Smile

I'm glad to help. When I was diagnosed back in 2000 (yeah, it took 42 years), people here were amazing.

I think that bringing a list of questions to the neuro is a good idea. When dealing with a new disease, it's easy to forget what you'd like to ask! Doctors tend to have their own routine of what they want to say. That might not be the same as what you need to hear!

I'm glad they're being proactive with the PT, but many people just don't "get" MG. They don't realize that we have a static amount of acetylcholine (ACh) going to our muscles. The more we do, the more ACh we need. But the body just can't supply that to the muscles. This quote from Top Gun kind of says it all:" You're ego's writing checks your body can't cash!" We're doing things that our bodies can't handle.

Neuros worry about overdosing with Mestinon, causing a cholinergic crisis. Well, if the dose is reduced a bit and taken more often, then that can be avoided. There are articles on PubMed that detail how taking anything over 100 mg at a time "can" flood the neuromuscular junction with too much acetylcholine. Of course, everyone is different, and some people can tolerate more.

Just as an example, I take 90 - 100 mg. every three hours (sometimes every 2-1/2) round the clock. But I'm not a good example. I can't do the other drugs. I am on a steroid inhaler for asthma, and that does help MG. But I have to rely on common sense, Mestinon, and rest.

Steroids are not fun to be on long-term, so I'm glad your docs will wean you off of those. They cause more problems than they solve. They can be a good rescue med in the hospital, along with IVIG though.

Take some time to read up on MG before your appt. and write down questions. Some questions, though, neurologists might not be able to answer! They can't imagine what living with MG is really like.

I hope you can find a treatment that you can live with, and will go into remission. Make sure that you check the cancer history in your family, if you are considering going on an immunosuppressant. If you do, stay out of the sun! A lot of people can get skin cancer while on those. I know, more awful info. But that's the reality of these choices.

Holler if you need anything!


Annie
AnnieB3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-12-2018, 10:16 PM #5
Mikanro Mikanro is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 4
5 yr Member
Mikanro Mikanro is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 4
5 yr Member
Default

Hi! Yes, it can definitely seem to come on suddenly. 8 months ago I was a normal 34 year old and then I fell apart. It took 3 months and 5 doctors to get a diagnosis though. (An eye doctor figured it out and then a neuro confirmed it.)
I said "seem" to come on suddenly because as time goes on, I realize things were not quite right before. And I notice my eye turning out and ptosis in pictures when I look back.

But my life seemed normal at the time and now... it sucks. I take the same meds as you except my mestinon is 120mg every 3 hours and I just weaned from 80 to 60 mg on prednisone. They started weaning me after I started IVIG infusions. I also take Cellcept but they are getting ready to change that to a different one (plus the 4 medications for my heart, but that complication is really rare and would not apply to your situation.) Oh I also take mestinon (pyridostigmine) 180mg extended release at night.

Weaning off the steroids will help steroid side effects, but can make your mg worse, better or change nothing noticeable. It depends on your situation, how long on them, etc. For example going from 80 to 60 has made no difference in me.
But a few doses of solumedrol given by a clueless ER made me worse and going back to 80 a day was definitely an improvement.

I asked for physical therapy. They said no. That my PT is walking across my one story home without collapsing into a heap Sudden Onset of MG

I recently realized that getting hit by this has resulted in a real grieving process. I have grieved for my old life. Resenting the things I did not do but could have and laughing bitterly at what I thought mattered at the time.

Now I just want to play with my kids.

Eventually I realized that I was still not doing things I wanted but I actually could do. I had to drop some pride regarding help, assistance devices and refocus. See, I am a photographer who cannot see properly... unless I close one eye. And I only shoot with one eye...and it is not the bad one. Sessions are hell but taking pictures of my kids is my life love. That is the thing that has gotten me this far. I would not have made it otherwise.

I cannot answer much about the thymectomy. I do not have the tumor and removing the gland has not been mentioned as an option. (I am not sure if it ever will be since I am seronegative?) I go to an MG clinic soon so I am sure I will hear about it if it is. 3 weeks and counting before I get a little more expertise than this tiny town has to offer.

And I cannot wait.
Accept your grief- from sad to desperate to angry and beyond hopeless. But find your thing. Your life love. And find a way to do it, the closest way you can, no matter how much help you need.
It will save your mind.

-Anna

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Mikanro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
AnnieB3 (11-13-2018), azwild (11-13-2018)
Old 11-13-2018, 04:01 PM #6
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikanro View Post
Hi! Yes, it can definitely seem to come on suddenly. 8 months ago I was a normal 34 year old and then I fell apart. It took 3 months and 5 doctors to get a diagnosis though. (An eye doctor figured it out and then a neuro confirmed it.)
I said "seem" to come on suddenly because as time goes on, I realize things were not quite right before. And I notice my eye turning out and ptosis in pictures when I look back.

But my life seemed normal at the time and now... it sucks. I take the same meds as you except my mestinon is 120mg every 3 hours and I just weaned from 80 to 60 mg on prednisone. They started weaning me after I started IVIG infusions. I also take Cellcept but they are getting ready to change that to a different one (plus the 4 medications for my heart, but that complication is really rare and would not apply to your situation.) Oh I also take mestinon (pyridostigmine) 180mg extended release at night.

Weaning off the steroids will help steroid side effects, but can make your mg worse, better or change nothing noticeable. It depends on your situation, how long on them, etc. For example going from 80 to 60 has made no difference in me.
But a few doses of solumedrol given by a clueless ER made me worse and going back to 80 a day was definitely an improvement.

I asked for physical therapy. They said no. That my PT is walking across my one story home without collapsing into a heap Sudden Onset of MG

I recently realized that getting hit by this has resulted in a real grieving process. I have grieved for my old life. Resenting the things I did not do but could have and laughing bitterly at what I thought mattered at the time.

Now I just want to play with my kids.

Eventually I realized that I was still not doing things I wanted but I actually could do. I had to drop some pride regarding help, assistance devices and refocus. See, I am a photographer who cannot see properly... unless I close one eye. And I only shoot with one eye...and it is not the bad one. Sessions are hell but taking pictures of my kids is my life love. That is the thing that has gotten me this far. I would not have made it otherwise.

I cannot answer much about the thymectomy. I do not have the tumor and removing the gland has not been mentioned as an option. (I am not sure if it ever will be since I am seronegative?) I go to an MG clinic soon so I am sure I will hear about it if it is. 3 weeks and counting before I get a little more expertise than this tiny town has to offer.

And I cannot wait.
Accept your grief- from sad to desperate to angry and beyond hopeless. But find your thing. Your life love. And find a way to do it, the closest way you can, no matter how much help you need.
It will save your mind.

-Anna
Thanks for sharing Anna. I’m sorry about your diagnosis as well. That must be so hard with kids!

I have a few questions for you or anybody else who can answer them. You mentioned IVIG treatment. One of the things I’ve wondered about and have on my list of questions for the neuro, is how often they can do IVIG. Do they only do it if you are in crisis mode, or in my case, before a surgery? I’ve tried to research this, and I seem to find different answers which just confuse me more. (Not to mention I can only stay on the computer for so long before I get nauseous because of my eyes, ugh!) I mean do they ever do infusions as a standard treatment every few months or so to re-energize you?

Also, you mentioned an MG clinic, where is that and what do they do there?

You and Annie have definitely convinced me to ask my doctor about taking the pyridostigmine more often but maybe in smaller doses. He hasn’t mentioned any other medications to try yet, but I’m sure when I see him Thursday and he sees how I’m doing with current meds and dosages I’ll find out more.

Thank you again!
Kristi

I have set some “goals” for my husband and I to look forward to in up the upcoming coming months. First, we usually spend the winter in Florida. In fact, we would already be there if this hadn’t happened. My goal is to go after the first of the year. My neurologist already said I could get a neuro there, and maybe they could work together. I’ve planned other simple things like a concert in April, and big things like a cruise next summer. Of course everything is refundable. I’m happy you are able to do your photography again. (The photo is beautiful)
bchgrl is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
AnnieB3 (11-13-2018)
Old 11-13-2018, 06:13 PM #7
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
Smile

Kristi, IVIG all depends upon the doctor (and what insurance you have). There's a lot of paperwork to be filled out for IVIG. Some patients can get IVIG on a regular basis, some even at home. So there's really not a yes or not answer to that one!

There are MDA clinics around the country, which you can find on the MDA site. One of those doctors (in Florida), who is an MDA director, is Dr. Allan Weiss in St. Petersburg. He is an awesome doctor. There are more, but I don't know them like I do him. They often have MDA days, where an appt. is free.

If you can become stabilized, then taking trips should be okay (with precautions). If you vacation where the weather is hot, then you should stay out of the heat as much as possible. Heat can make MG exponentially worse, and quickly. Just in case an MG patient becomes worse on a vacation, you should know ahead of time where the emergency centers are (if there are any). Scheduling naps in the day will help allow you to do what you want.

But know that this disease can surprise you, even while on meds. A person can do something on one day, and then become worse in the next two days. You have to give yourself time to know what your normal is.

If you can buy one, an oximeter can be a useful tool to know how your breathing is doing. I know what my normal is, and when that becomes too low, I can either rest more or see my pulmonologist to assess breathing more. Since everyone's (people without MG) breathing becomes weaker at night, an MG patient's breathing can be even weaker. Some patients have sleep apnea. An overnight oximetry or a sleep test can help to determine what is going on at night. I say all of that because one's O2 can go lower in a plane. Breathing can be more difficult. Hypoxemia is a heart and brain risk (don't freak!). That's why they monitor the heart during an MG crisis.

Thanks for posting, Anna. That's a beautiful piece of art! I'm a designer (among other things), and really appreciate how hard it is to produce any work. Also, thanks for the info for Kristi.

Here is some other general info about drugs. Cellcept is kind of like taking water for many people. Imuran works better for most, but the neuro needs to run the TPMT test before starting that drug.

TPMT testing before azathioprine therapy? - PubMed - NCBI
Thiopurine Methyltransferase, RBC

Rituxan is a more potent drug, usually used for MG patients who have tried other treatments without a good enough response. That drug has been working for patients, but no treatment is without risk.

I hope your neuro knows about all of the different treatments. IVIG is obviously a preferred treatment, due to no immunosuppression. But you have to think about the damage to veins in the long run. Sorry, kind of scary and gross, but a reality.

I hope others will share their experiences with you. There are some Facebook groups for MGers, but I'm not on Facebook, so I can't direct you to them. Our site has become very quiet of late.

Only you can decide what is best for you and your life! These are big decisions. I'm sure you will know what you want. You sound very intelligent and determined.

I would like to give one caution. Don't let MG fool you. A person with MG can become so weak so slowly that s/he can think nothing of how they are doing. When I had my crisis in 2005, I couldn't squeeze the urgent care doctor's hands. I thought I was squeezing them really hard! It's always best to have some measures of how you are doing, whether that is ptosis becoming worse, O2 going lower, not being able to hold your arms out in front of you for long, or anything else. I say that because once someone is on a treatment, they can tend to think they are "normal" again and go back to pushing the physical envelope.

Have a great appointment!!!

Annie
AnnieB3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
azwild (11-13-2018), Mikanro (11-13-2018)
Old 11-13-2018, 06:23 PM #8
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
bchgrl bchgrl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
5 yr Member
Default

Annie,
Thanks again for such great advice! I will check out some of these websites and the MDA clinics. Unfortunately, we are not very close to St. Pete, but will check it out anyway.
Kristi
bchgrl is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 07:13 PM #9
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
AnnieB3 AnnieB3 is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,306
15 yr Member
Default

Dr. Weiss might be able to recommend someone. Mayo is up in Jackson. Maybe do another post asking if others know of an expert neuro in the area you will be in.

Annie
AnnieB3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
bchgrl (11-13-2018)
Old 11-13-2018, 07:29 PM #10
Mikanro Mikanro is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 4
5 yr Member
Mikanro Mikanro is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 4
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgrl View Post
Thanks for sharing Anna. I’m sorry about your diagnosis as well. That must be so hard with kids!

I have a few questions for you or anybody else who can answer them. You mentioned IVIG treatment. One of the things I’ve wondered about and have on my list of questions for the neuro, is how often they can do IVIG. Do they only do it if you are in crisis mode, or in my case, before a surgery? I’ve tried to research this, and I seem to find different answers which just confuse me more. (Not to mention I can only stay on the computer for so long before I get nauseous because of my eyes, ugh!) I mean do they ever do infusions as a standard treatment every few months or so to re-energize you?

Also, you mentioned an MG clinic, where is that and what do they do there?

You and Annie have definitely convinced me to ask my doctor about taking the pyridostigmine more often but maybe in smaller doses. He hasn’t mentioned any other medications to try yet, but I’m sure when I see him Thursday and he sees how I’m doing with current meds and dosages I’ll find out more.

Thank you again!
Kristi

I have set some “goals” for my husband and I to look forward to in up the upcoming coming months. First, we usually spend the winter in Florida. In fact, we would already be there if this hadn’t happened. My goal is to go after the first of the year. My neurologist already said I could get a neuro there, and maybe they could work together. I’ve planned other simple things like a concert in April, and big things like a cruise next summer. Of course everything is refundable. I’m happy you are able to do your photography again. (The photo is beautiful)
They generally try IVIG after other treatments fail to work. The number of failed treatments required will depend on insurance.
The standard for IVIG is once a month according to the providers I currently have. But for some people, it starts to wear off sooner and they go to every 3 weeks. I am in pretty bad shape today and I am due for another infusion in 5 days. However, they will want me to have a few more infusions to establish proof that I need them more often. (To show it is not a coincidence.)
My infusions take 4 hours, two days in a row. Most people only spend 3 hours there but they have to infuse me more slowly or my blood pressure drops.

I will write more later. My arms are getting floppy.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Mikanro is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
day, home, symptoms, thymectomy, times

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peripheral Neuropathy Sudden Onset james7 Peripheral Neuropathy 13 03-23-2015 11:56 PM
Sudden onset of polyneuropathy mystifid2 Peripheral Neuropathy 10 09-11-2014 11:56 AM
Sudden Onset of Peripheral Neuropathy TJOne Peripheral Neuropathy 9 01-06-2012 10:49 AM
sudden onset weakness trumandem Myasthenia Gravis 5 03-07-2011 12:03 PM
Sudden onset of PN pain Dakota Peripheral Neuropathy 8 12-15-2007 09:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.