hello everyone , 6 years ago i lifted something heavy, had a wry neck and now im introducing myself to persons i can not see through a type of forum i have never used before. during the course of my problem i have suffered many of the symptoms that most people with TOS suffer. i believe that the medical practitioners are not looking at the problem logically. various medical experts have suggested that 1)the heavy arm feeling is due to vascular reasons. 2) TOS causes scapular instability 3) there is a changed breathing pattern in TOS sufferers (they chest breathe when they should be abdominally breathing, the suggestion being that chest breathing causes overuseof the scalene muscles thereby compromising the brachial plexus).4)the head forward posture is a cause of TOS.
I believe that their cause and effects are back to front.
1) The heavy arm feeling is not caused by vascular problems but instead it is due to varying scapular instability.
2) TOS does not cause scapular instability, scapular instability causes TOS
3) Many experts on TOS suggest that sufferers of TOS, chest breathe when they should be abdominally breathing. I believe that chest breathing causes partial compromise to the Long Thoracic nerve as it travels over the second rib. This then causes further scapular instability and greater compensation by the pectoralis minor which causes compromise to brachial plexus.
4) The forward head position is not the cause of TOS, it is a symptom. If the brachial plexus is being compromised behind the pectoralis minor muscle (as is suggested by some doctors such as Dr Richard Saunders) then the body's automatic reaction is to try and minimise the total compromise to the brachial plexus(BP) by moving the head forward and remove what would otherwise be normal pressure on the BP. the theory of cumulative pressure on nerves is called Double Crush. as i said this is the first time i have been a member of such a community. i need to go now i will list some of the measures which i have used to lessen my symptoms next time i log on

welcome to NeuroTalk towelhorse

we have a very active TOS forum here and I am sure the members there will be pleased to meet you and exchange info with you

here is the link
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

hi towelhorse, welcome to neurotalk.

the TOS forum that chemar gave you the link to has lots of information and really great members.

if yo have any questions or need help with any of the features of neurotalk, just sen dme or any of the mods a pm.

Hi Towelhorse,

Welcome...I am TOSer, possible RSder.

Interesting points you make. Look forward to more posts

hi everyone, please excuse me if i am doing this the wrong way i am not very computer literate and i have just spent 5 mins working out how to continue my story. i am assuming that this will continue on from the last episode that i wrote. in essence what i am trying to do is to ask people to consider their condition in different terms to what the medical profession use. if you go to a doctor and describe your symptoms.they may diagnose you with TOS.they will then stop listening to what you are saying and prescribe a bucket load of drugs, a physiotherapy programme that probably will make you worse and send you to a neurosurgeon who doesnt believe that TOS exists but is quite willing to perform some other invasive procedure to prove that is nerve root irritation that is the source of your problems. or if you are really lucky a neurosurgeon who believes TOS exists but tells you that surgery for TOS is only successful for 30 percent of those who have it. if anyone has heard of a person who has recovered from TOS can you ask them to list what they did to get better. my TOS began with pain in my upper back that made my neck very stiff and in the process my right arm felt so heavy that i was unable to lift things comfortably out in front of my body. not one doctor's report described the circumstances of my weak r arm as i had told them. i believe the way that my arm feels heavy is of great significance in trying to understand what is actually happening to cause TOS.
TOS sufferers often describe their symptoms worsening when they brush their hair or vacuuming the carpet, or carrying the shopping bags or reading the newspaper.
the medical practitioners use provocative tests such as costoclavicular test, the hyperabduction test which require the patient to hold the arms in the air or pull their shoulders back (stand to attention)
the manoevres which cause the TOS sufferer to a) have their hand, arm symptoms and muscle spasms in their sholders become worse are those manoevres which involve stabilizing ones scapula.
if one of the muscles that sabilize the scapula is not working correctly then other muscles tend to compensate for the weak muscle. it is my opnion that it is the compensatory muscles (pectoralis minor and rhomboids) which cause the problems of TOS (pectoralis minor syndrome) and myofacial pain of the erector spinae (T4 syndrome). got to go see you later.

hello again, if anyone is interested i would like to mention the strategies that have improved my situation the most.
For the first 20 months of my problem, my condition deterioted markedly. i went from an injured shoulder and able to go on 10 mile bushwalks around steep terrain to three months later needing to lay down for most of the day. there were the very painful (8/10) muscle spasms in my upper back . no amount of capadex, celebrex, feldene, norflex, voltaren, vallium and other drugs that i have now forgotten would ease the painful muscle spasms. things were pretty bad. sleep was terrible, loss of and altered sensations in my right hand and arm.
A) there was one thing that a pt suggested that i do which changed my life around. the pt gave me a 5 inch diameter ball (chi ball) which could be inflated or deflated to suit my needs and showed me how to position the ball between my shoulder blades as i lay on it and relax my shoulder blades (scapulae) to the floor. the pressure and discomfort that it relieved was tremendous. i was telling people that i could now take my pain levels down to 0/0. the pt said that it was a thoracic mobilization exercise, i have seen the same exercise described by chiropractors as a pectoral stretching exercise. it became a necessary part of my routine to lay on this ball and take the pressure off of this area. when i do this i regain scapular stability. i believe that what i am doing is taking pressure off of the nerve which goes to a muscle called the serratus anterior which is under my shoulder blade.

Something changed physiologically in the months from being able to walk for 10 miles through mountainous terrain to needing to lay down for most of the day. i was lacking any energy. i was being told by physiotherapists that i was chest breathing when i should be abdominally breathing. Internet searches showed that many treatments for TOS involve a retraining of the TOS sufferer in the manner that they breathe, pilates, feldenkrais and yoga are used. researchers postulate that the autonomic nervous system is somehow affected, proponents of a condition called T4 syndrome (with symptoms like TOS) suggest that the nerves from T2 are affected, the nerve that cause bronco constriction comes T2. so somehow the physiotherapist is going assist the sufferer to correct a breathing condition that no one is really sure why it is occurring. what if they are unsuccessfull? As the condition of TOS is disputed and not well received by the medical community. complaints of strange symptoms are viewed with incredulity and are not given the significance that they deserve.

B) six years after my initial shoulder injury an x-ray of my heart to preclude heart defect as a reason for high blood pressure found that "the lung fields are over inflated and there are signs of chronic airways disease"
subsequent visits to pulmonary specialists (who asked that the x-ray be redone as she couldnt believe what she saw) and pulmonary function tests (involving continuous deep breathes which made my r upper back very sore again).my comments regarding the improvement that i had had when i had taken asthma medication previously and how it had improved my shoulder situation and the symptoms down my arm. prompted the specialist to consult with her senior and they prescribed a course of pulmicort.
not long after commencing the pulmicort the changes were evident. it was as though i was sleeping on a different mattress. Gastro Oesophageal Reflux which had been really bad since the deteriotion of my condition (an endoscopy 6 months after my injury showed that i had 3 ulcers in my oesophagus, they said it was due to the anti- inflammatory drugs i had been taking. since the endoscopy i had been taking somac at least 5 times a week). since the pulmicort and subsequent change in breathing in 12 weeks i have taken no more than 8 tablets. exercises which i have previously attempted (3 mile walks)and had left me tired and needing to recooperate by laying on the chi ball. now dont cause the same deteriotion of my condition. my arm is improving apart from a setback when a health professional manipulated the area near my scapula which caused scapula instability. i can't but help wonder if other TOS sufferers who may have the breathing problem might improve if they had similar treatment. i wish you well

towelhorse
I am going to copy your thread over vto the TOS forum here cos those are the members who will be most interested to read your experience
here is the link to your thread there
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=15187

here again is the TOS forum link
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Towelhorse - click on the links that Chemar gave and come join us at the TOS forum.