Originally Posted by Adamo (Post 1035144)

To clarify I am calmer for some time during the day. Right now I am on 2.5 mg of Valium w/10 mg proponal in the am at 11. I am usually fairly sedated until 2 at which point the anxiety builds consistently up until 6 pm when I take 5 mg. Strangely enough that does nothing for the anxiety but I try to distract myself as best I can until 11 when I take another 5 mg + proponal .

I cannot figure out why the valium seems to intensify anxiety at 6 pm after taking it but at least I am tired enough to sleep at night. Is stepping down 2.5 mg every 5 days radical, you think? I am 2 days into first of such drops. You said previously that it takes 5 days at least to stabilize....

Thanks again for writing me back because I wondered if you had given me up for lost. I hope that I can survive this detox without consequences afterwards and your friendship has given me faith!

Originally Posted by waves (Post 1035206)

Hi Adamo,

No worries, I have not given you up for lost!

We were talking about Klonopin before, not Valium. Klonopin causes much steeper peaks and troughs than Valium does, making it hard to d/c, especially if the brain does not have time to adjust to the reductions.

Valium is different and should provide a much 'smoother ride' out. Valium substitution is the preferred way to d/c most other benzo's, including Klonopin.

You are doing well, and you can survive this. Hang in there. I'll be here. :hug:

Just curious about the "proponal" -- what is that? Did you perhaps mean propanolol? ... or propofol? ... or something else?

waves

Originally Posted by Adamo (Post 1035307)

I am glad to hear you think I am doing well. I would very much like to survive. Will be dropping to 10mg on the 10th and to 7.5 mg on the 16th if it is allowed.

Originally Posted by waves (Post 1035667)

Sounds good.
Oh, I wouldn't assume that. It won't be so bad. 2.5 mg of Valium to 0 isn't a big jump and it is waaaaaaaayyy less than the 0.75 mg of Klonopin. Equivalency-wise, 2.5 mg of Valium would only be 0.125 mg Klonopin and Valium distributes differently too. Moreover, the level doesn't crash nearly as hard in the blood even after you stop taking it. It's just a much, much easier thing to come off of, and ... compared to what she had you do with the Klonopin? This will be a piece of cake, seriously.
Ah ok, gotcha. It's probably what I know as propranolol. Maybe your spelling is an alternate name for it where you live, or a brand name.

You can get a bit of depression with tapering. I haven't had a big problem with it myself, but it has been documented. It's very hard to say with something like that if it's really the taper or a mere coincidence. I'm inclined to think it could very well be situational and not chemical in your case. No matter. Hopefully it will remain at tolerable levels. Walking is good... keep that up.

waves

Originally Posted by Adamo (Post 1035671)

The real question you could clarify (if it is possible to answer at all) is: If 2.5 mg valium is the equivalent to 0.125 Kpin isn't dropping 2.5 mg every 5 days way TOO fast? Or is dropping Valium at this rate easier than dropping .125 Kpin every 5 days?!

Originally Posted by waves (Post 1035906)

First, if you look back at the plan I suggested for you when you were thinking of just reducing the Klonopin on your own, it was going to be 0.25mg every ten days. If you had been able to split the pills, you could have done 0.125 every five days for a smoother reduction. Now you have the Valium, which is even better, IMHO. Because, indeed, reducing Valium at this rate is easier than reducing by Klonopin by equivalent decrements of 0.125 mg.

At this point, Adamo, I really think you need to commit to what your doctor says. I think you must have reason to feel pretty good about this doctor, since you went back to her... so then trust her. I'm only saying this because I feel it isn't going to help you to keep second-guessing her prescriptions. Tell yourself this: By spring next year, all this hell you've been through will be over. You'll look back on it like it was just a bad dream. Look forward and look past this process. Know that it will end.

You are right that it doesn't make sense. My thought is that this is probably a coincidence, and not the effect of the Valium at all. I.e., your anxiety rises around the time you take that dose, but not due to the medication.

No. You just don't have boolean states of on-drug followed by off-drug. NO drug, none, not even aspirin, leaves your system the second you stop taking it, or the second you don't feel the effect. Valium is one that clears out very gradually; Klonopin clears much faster. In this sense, you can think of Valium as a self-tapering drug, to a degree. Think of it as having built-in cruise control.

Bad assumption. The last reduction/removal is not drastically different than the others. The degree of discomfort can vary from person to person, but you seem to be doing pretty well so far... based on this, the outlook for you is good.

Well you asked about depression, and by "situational" I just meant "having to do with your situation". That could be anything at all about your personal situation, not necessarily in relation to the drug at all. Examples of triggers for situational depression: wife leaving, work troubles, cat died (I bear no ill will to your dear cat if you have one).

By the way, how is work, and have you heard from your wife at all?



NP. Keep taking care. Keep your mind focused on the fact that you are going to come out the other end, and will be free of these substances. And you can join me in the ranks of benzo-freedom. ;):D

waves

Originally Posted by Adamo (Post 1039541)

It is now 12/25 and I am at 5 mg valium at night. I get pretty bad brain zaps at the back of my head and some shaking/anxiety/agitation all between 5-10:30 PM.

I now am being urged to drop to 2.5 mg but am somewhat hesitant since I have read that the lower the dose the smaller one should reduce. Is this true? What if I went for a reduction of 5 to 3.75 mg; do you thing that would be better?

I really would like to jump at 2.5 mg if at all possible. Freedom is what I crave.

Again, I appreciate your input Waves.

Best wishes Adamo

Originally Posted by waves (Post 1039848)

Adamo,

I think it best that you to stick to the program.

It sounds like you are pretty much ok, barring some discomfort for a few hours. What I hear you describe is only discomfort, it will only be temporary, and it poses no danger to you.

If I am misunderstanding what you said and the issues you are having are not tolerable, then you should call your doctor immediately and allow her to re-evaluate your schedule.

I am glad you checked in. I hope you are managing to have a decent holiday. Have you got some time off work?

Take care. I send you my best wishes for Happy New Year, too, in case we don't catch up again before then.

waves