[gesturepen]

I feel a little awkward being here, mainly because I'm not actually the parent of a bipolar child; I'm just the aunt, currently living at home with my mom while I find money for college. About a year ago, my would be sister-in-law called my mom with the delightful ultimatum- either my mother takes in my 10-year-old niece or she goes in foster care. Since then, she's been living with us. I guess the point of this topic comes from the fact that sometimes, when she's at her worse, all I want to do is hit her. Last year she threw a major tantrum and hit my mother, it took everything in my willpower not to attack her.

Despite how bad things get, she's usually been respectful of my stuff, but since my mom took a second job in the evenings, she's gotten way more ballsy because my mother isn't around. We're a 1-car family, so I drop my mom off at work, then go out to do the grocery shopping or whatever else needs to be done. She's started stealing things from me (and losing the stolen items on top of everything) when I'm out of the house. Today we confronted her about it and she lied, of course. My mother punished her anyway, but when my niece is accused of lying, even if she is blatantly lying, she goes ballistic. And she's been refusing to take her medication recently, so today it was even worse than usual.

This evening she threw a huge fit: screaming, tossing papers, throwing food, the whole nine yards. During that fit, she turned to start screaming at me, and I felt myself getting angry enough to hit her again, but this time she started taunting me, saying "Go ahead! Hit me! See what happens!" If my mother weren't there to stop me, I think I might have actually done it.

I feel pathetic admitting a kid can get me that angry, but it's true. I wouldn't even consider myself a violent person. It's just the things she does- losing 1 of my shirts, ruining a pair of my shoes, screaming at my mother, screaming at me- build up until I can't take it. I spoke to my mother about it; her advice was if it ever got that bad again when she wasn't there, I should get out of the house immediately, just drive off and cool my head. But, she wants me to leave her alone with our valuables while she's having a violent fit? What should I do, barricade the bedroom doors?

I don't trust her enough to leave her alone for more than a few minutes, knowing she's willing to steal from me now. And I don't trust myself enough to stay in the house with her when she's throwing a tantrum and I'm that angry. I'm not sure what I should do. Sorry about this long post, by the way. Most of my family and friends are asleep and I guess I need to vent to someone.

[Jaspar]

It is natural for people to react with anger when taunted. When you feel this way, it is important to de-escalate the situation. Walk away. If you cannot physically walk away, do it mentally. Always act calm even if you do not feel it. When she is screaming it is the same as someone else vomiting. Please take a NAMI family-to-family class. It is free. It will help you. Many people have an emergency medication to take when they get that way. Does your niece have an emergency calming medication you can give her when she gets that way? Also, maybe you should read the book called "It's Not Mental" by Jeanie Wolfson since that is also about a child who had a severe mental illness. But maybe it is possible that your niece has more than bipolar. Maybe she also has a real personality problem and really is becoming a bad person. Bipolar does not make a person steal. It does not make a person taunt another person. Maybe it will predispose someone to do that when they are manic. Was she manic? If so, then the solution is better control of her symptoms. But maybe this behavior is not due to symptoms. It is very hard to know the difference.

[Mari]

HI,

Jaspar is right.
Leave the situation either physically or mentally. Contact www.nami.org

Do you and your mother talk to the school counselor?

I suggest you get counseling for yourself. A counselor can teach you to handle this kind of situation you describe.

Get the book Jaspar recommends.

Originally Posted by Jaspar

Also, maybe you should read the book called "It's Not Mental" by Jeanie Wolfson since that is also about a child who had a severe mental illness. But maybe it is possible that your niece has more than bipolar.

M

[ginnie]

It must be terribly difficult with that kind of situation. Please do get someone to help your family. A child like that needs help, and she is old enough to push all your buttons. The fact that she is stealing from you would be horrible in itself, even without all the tantrums. Until you get help, I agree, leave the house, she can scream at herself and alone. Take your valuables with you and pack a small bag just in case this happens, so she cannot take those things that have value to you. Don't stay in an atmosphere that can bring on violence, run like crazy from it. There are family counciling centers that deal with emergencies day and night. I would drive myself right over there and let them know what is going on in your household. we all have breaking points, where we no longer trust ourselves not to react. My father was a violent drunk. I wanted to hit him too!. I left instead. I sincerely hope you will follow up and try to get some profession involved in your household. This kind of atmosphere is toxic for everyone involved. This young person needs help which only a professional can deal with, especially when there is non-compliance in taking medications. I truely hope that a resolution can be found. You don't have to feel awkward in coming to this site. I hope others will chime in and try to help you too. I guess this is what I would do, if I were in a similar circumstances. Keep a level head and get someone to help. All my best to you. ginnie

[Dmom3005]

Many things.

But two to start.

One, you are very welcome here. You are acting as the parent in place of your mother in the evening while she is gone. So you need to know what to
do. So in a different type of way you are a parent. We take all kinds here.
Just as we do in the regular bi-polar room.

Second, even though you need to leave the situation. And the house for
a while. Please make sure you and your mother can't get into trouble
leaving a child the age of I believe she is 10 or 11 at home alone at this
time of night or day. There are different laws in each state.

In Indiana, you could technically or your mother get into big trouble. And
then it would be out of your hands. And not only would she be in foster care,
but you would be in court. Not trying to scare you into anything. But just
making sure you check this out. And your mother is aware of the law.


Next, please make sure she has been to the doctor lately. Its very important.
She needs to be in therapy, you need to know how things are going at school too. It needs to be a combine effort.

Also take the Nami classes that are being suggested.

Donna

[gesturepen]

Thank you everyone! I feel a lot better after reading through these. Leaving the house and taking my valuables with me sounds like a good solution.

To the people who asked, my niece sees a therapist and psychiatrist once a month (which should probably be upped to 2-3 times a month for the therapist), but I don't see a counselor of any kind. I'll looked into the Nami and their classes and the book Jasper and Mari mentioned. I don't think my niece has any emergency medications she could take. From my understanding, the only medications she has are Abilify and concerta. She's been diagnosed with things in the past- ADD, ADHD, ODD, and finally bipolar disorder.

I'm not sure if her tantrum counts as manic or not. She was fairly calm until she realized when knew she was lying, then everything escalated, and by the end she fell asleep on the couch.... Now that I've typed that out, it does sound fairly manic. I'll look into the states laws about leaving children alone, too. I live in Kansas, so our laws on that might be different.

[Jomar]

The poor kid also has to deal with the fact that her mom sent her away , for whatever reason, that's a double whammy along with the other issues.

It might be good for both you and your mom to also read some books on dealing with these things, so you can get some ideas on how to help this girl thru the abandonment issues.

[gesturepen]

Whoops, don't know how that post was submitted twice. Sorry about that guys. And ironically, her mother sent to live with us while she went to school. Long story short, her other grandmother has never liked living her, which I now understand. So when my sister-in-law moved back in with her mother to go to school, she told her either my niece leaves or they all leave. That's when she called my mom. It's been hard on everyone, I guess. My mother's read more on these issues than I have. I definitely have some studying to do.

[Mari]

Hi,

I missed this the first time through.

Originally Posted by gesturepen

understanding, the only medications she has are Abilify and concerta. She's been diagnosed with things in the past- ADD, ADHD, ODD, and finally bipolar disorder.

Why is she getting Concerta when her moods are not controlled? ?? ?? Usually psyhciatrists first try to stabilize the moods. Only secondly they try to work on the ADHD - type behavior.
This is how it works with adults anyway. I know that children are different.
Still, I might question why she is on Concerta. Getting her off it might solve parts of her problems.


Is she seeing a pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in young patients with bipolar?


You should get much more help from the school than you are getting. As a child with bipolar, she is supposed to get accommodations at school that make it easier her to be successful. Probably school is stressful for her, making things at home harder for her too.

Ask her psychiatrist if she can have some emergency medicine. Sometimes those kinds of medications can take 45 minutes to an hour. Anyway, talk to the psychiatrist.

I am concerned that the child "forgets" to take her medicine some days. She's 10. This should not happen. Work this out with a therapist and a psychiatrist.

Alsot, take anything valuable out of the house. Put it in a bank box or somewhere else safe so that you are not concerned about stuff getting stolen and you can focus on the child.

Some of the things you describe are behaviors. Determining what is bipolar and what comes from somewhere else will be useful if her health care team can figure that out. Sometimes they can't figure that out until the child is much older.

Please let her therapist and psychiatrist know how bad things are. Write things down to bring with you to the appointments. Sometimes the healthcare team can be pushed to come up with better ideas / better plan.

Find a social worker who can connect the 10 year old and the rest of the family to special services in your town and state.

M

[Dmom3005]

Question: After these tantrums does she usually sleep for long periods?

Question: Does she tell you she doesn't remember doing the behaviour
(hitting,kicking,throwing.) Things like this in or around the behaviour?

And really looks very surprised when you call her on it. Even to the point
you think she is a good actress? I have a reason for these questions.


Next she definately needs to see the therapist more often. And if the
ADHD was diagnosed before the bi-polar and from what you have
said. I'm guessing it was. Then I'm going to guess they started treating
it thinking that was the main problem.

So then when the other things came to be they started new meds.

Is the concerta working for school? If not then its worth thinking about
taking it away, and not starting another.

But in cases of children that they find a ADHD med that is working with
this kind of situation. And school is somewhat more manageable. Its
usually left in place. This at least is my experience.

But just so you know. Its a federal law, that they can't make you medicate
her to go to school.

And I can help find you a Parent Center in Kansas. And as a Aunt you can
call, and be the one that helps your Mom. Even if your mom is the legal
guardian.


Donna