[starling]

I have come here because bipolar in children is not recognised as a condition here so I have nowhere to turn.
My son is 9 years old and has a diagnosis of ADHD, Aspergers syndrome, seperation anxiety disorder and oppositional defiance disorder, he was diagnosed when he was 5. He sees a pshyc and is on Ablify for his anxiety and melatonin to help him sleep.
I had a cousin with BP who threw himself in front of a train 3 years ago, but no other relative has BP. I think I know he has BP but no one will admit it. He has very bad angry outbursts where he hits anyone he feels has crossed him, often there is no reason that we can identify for it. I have to put myself between him and my 15 year old daughter. He screams abuse in my face, punches and kicks me until I have to restain him. This is becoming harder as he gets stronger. A few days ago he had a fight with his friend and he beat him with a stick around his head.
He has self harmed from a baby. Before he could walk he would bang his head on the floor and now he punhces his head or bangs it on walls, glass doors or whatever he is near. He says he wants to die at least once a week and pleads with us to give him a knife so he can die. He says he doesn't deserve to live.
But he is the sweetest boy you could meet at other times. He hugs me, constantly tells me he loves me and tells his sister she is the most beatiful girl in the world. He loves animals and would never hurt anything, he gets upset if he hurts even an ant. He hates to go out of the house so has to be home schooled. He still wears diapers (I think you call them) at night and has only used a toilet for 6 months in the daytime. He never wears trousers or underwear in the house as he gets hot. He eats very little and has to have special milkshakes to keep his weight at a good level. When he does eat it's all carbs, pasta, rice or bread.
I love my son so much but I worry he will either kill himself or hurt someone and end up in jail. I so want to help him but no one will even admit he has BP.

I hope I can come here and get some understanding and suport from you all. Thank you for taking time to read this.

[Chemar]

Hi and welcome, tho I am so sorry that you are here for this reason!

I did just want to ask if your son has had strep infections?

the reason I ask is because so many children seem to get a mental illness diagnosis when it is possible that the symptoms they display may be caused by inflammation in the brain as a result of untreated strep, a condition that is beginning to get more attention known as P.A.N.D.A.S= pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcus

i am not saying this is the case with your child, but a lot of what you describe is what parents of kids with this condition call "the exorcist syndrome"...where a kid literally acts as tho "possessed".

so I just mention it whenever anyone has a very young child exhibiting these symptoms...in case!
you can learn more about PANDAS here
http://www.pandasnetwork.org/


Other members here know more about bipolar in children so perhaps they can also give you the info you need on that

all the best and I do hope you find out what is causing all this and the best ways to treat.

[starling]

Hi Chemar, Thank you for the welcome and the link. I checked it out but don't think it's the problem. My son was very active before he was even born, I could feel him move around so much, people could even see it from across the room. He is also very clever, he taught himself to read at 4 and does math for fun, he has touch typed from 5 years old, again he taught himself. So there is no regression. He has fears that stop him using a toilet, in every other way he is so much older than 9 years old.

[Mari]

Hi,

Has your son been hospitalized?
Was he evaluated by a team of mental health specialists who set you up with support services? Sometimes hospitalization can get the attention of doctors who are being lazy.

Originally Posted by starling

He sees a pshyc and is on Ablify for his anxiety and melatonin to help him sleep. suport from you all. Thank you for taking time to read this.

In the US, the pdoc might
1, take the child off Abilify since it does not seem to be working
2. raise or lower the dose of Abilify
3. add a med to the Abilify
4. drop the Abilify and replace it with a mood stabilizer or another anti-psychotic.

Has the pdoc tried meds other than Abilify?
Is the Abilify working for sleep? Does he sleep?

I have to put myself between him and my 15 year old daughter. He screams abuse in my face, punches and kicks me until I have to restain him. This is becoming harder as he gets stronger. A few days ago he had a fight with his friend and he beat him with a stick around his head.

I'm aware that you recognize this as a crisis. You somehow need a team of people to recognize this as a crisis and take action.
It is wrong in 100 different ways for your daughter to have to live with a violent brother in the house. She is supposed to be safe and she should be allowed an expectation of safety from her mother.

Make sure she has the phone number to call the police so that they can take him away to a hospital in an emergency.

Get on the phone and contact all available agencies and people. If the cannot help now, get put on waiting lists. Get them to refer you to other people. Go up the chain to executives or politicians.

By any chance is your son on any med beyond Abilify and Melontonin?
Is he on a med for ADHD? He might not have ADHD and if he does, the protocol is for the raging and violence to stop before medicating for ADHD.

Check doses from scientific articles (not from manufacturers) on the internet. Melatonin is a hormone that does not bring about sleep. At small doses (in some cases) it can advance the onset of sleep a little.

Most people are using more than they the helpful dose.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5297316_me...dangerous.html
Side Effects
There are no known serious side effects but some melatonin users report having a headache or upset stomach. Anecdotal evidence and a report from the University of Maryland Medical Center indicate that some people experience nightmares or very vivid dreams and restless sleep. It would be very rare to have an allergic reaction, but if symptoms arose---including difficulty breathing, hives or swelling of the lips, tongue or throat---then immediate medical help is necessary.

He eats very little and has to have special milkshakes to keep his weight at a good level. When he does eat it's all carbs, pasta, rice or bread.

I'm curious about his milkshake and carb diet. What if you stopped giving him cow mik and switched to rice milk or almond milk in case he has an intolerance to the milkshakes? Try cutting off the pasta and bread. Stick with rice and non gluten / wheat products for three weeks and see if you notice anything different.
With his current diet he is probably missing some nutrients. Do you add vits and minerals to the milkshakes?

Here are two sites sthat might be helpful if you have not tried them yet:
1. bpkids.org This is more active than here.
2. http://www.bipolarchild.com/Resources/index.html

I love my son so much but I worry he will either kill himself or hurt someone and end up in jail. I so want to help him but no one will even admit he has BP.

Pdocs in the US are reluctant to diagnose is children.
They do offer treamtent under various names.
So perhaps do not focus on the diagnosis.
Keep focusing on the symptoms and the treatment options

I had a cousin with BP who threw himself in front of a train 3 years ago, but no other relative has BP.

I am the only on in my family who is dx'd bipolar but plenty of people on mom's and dad's family tress are undiagnosed with anxiety, alcoholism, eating disorders, depression, street drug use, and so on. I'm not a researcher, but some of this stuff on a spectrum seems to run in families.

--Essentially, know that you are not alone and that other families have struggles. Get more help from docs for him. And get more support for yourself and your daughter.

--Try changing his diet if you can.

--He could very well grow out of by the time he is a young adult.
Keep hoping for him. He needs you.


M.

[starling]

Thank you for taking time to reply. I will try and answer your questions.


[QUOTE=Mari;654499]Hi,

Has your son been hospitalized?
Was he evaluated by a team of mental health specialists who set you up with support services?
I tried for 3 years to get a dx but no one would say what was wrong. I was told he had "complex needs" I got ****** at being passed from one person to another so I told my GP I wanted to see a team I had heard about in a very good hospital in London. We spent a day with the team and that's how we got the DX but they still said he was hard to DX.



Has the pdoc tried meds other than Abilify?
Is the Abilify working for sleep? Does he sleep?

His psychiatrist has given him other meds but he had bad reactions to them and on a very small dose. He was on Respiridone but was getting constant De-ja-vu so had to come off. There was another med that I can't remember the name of, that made his limbs jerk around. The Ablify dose is only 2ml and he even had a reaction to that after he was ill with vomiting and didn't take it for 10 days. I made the mistake of giving him 2mls straight off instead of building him back up and he started to talk funny and said his tongue was stiff. I had to stop and build it up from 1ml.

He does sleep but very little. He goes to seep at midnight to 2am. He has the Melatonin to help, again only a small dose of 3ml.

In the UK only a psychiatrist can prescribe these drugs for kids. They are not licensed for kids so a GP or Peadiatrician can't give them.



I'm aware that you recognize this as a crisis. You somehow need a team of people to recognize this as a crisis and take action.
It is wrong in 100 different ways for your daughter to have to live with a violent brother in the house. She is supposed to be safe and she should be allowed an expectation of safety from her mother.

I never let my daughter get hurt. I take all the violence he throws out.

Make sure she has the phone number to call the police so that they can take him away to a hospital in an emergency.

In the UK if we call the police we will lose custody of him so that will be a very last resort.


By any chance is your son on any med beyond Abilify and Melontonin?
Is he on a med for ADHD? He might not have ADHD and if he does, the protocol is for the raging and violence to stop before medicating for ADHD.

He is not on any ADHD meds.


I'm curious about his milkshake and carb diet. What if you stopped giving him cow mik and switched to rice milk or almond milk in case he has an intolerance to the milkshakes? Try cutting off the pasta and bread. Stick with rice and non gluten / wheat products for three weeks and see if you notice anything different.
With his current diet he is probably missing some nutrients. Do you add vits and minerals to the milkshakes?

The milkshakes have half the daily reqirements of all vitamins and minerals. I also give him a vitamin and mineral pill every day so he gets all he needs.
I have thought about trying to cut out carbs but he has food phobia and wont eat anything else. He notices even if we change brands so changing to rice milk would not work. He is so thin he needs to have the milkshakes just to stop his weight falling dangerously low.


I am the only on in my family who is dx'd bipolar but plenty of people on mom's and dad's family tress are undiagnosed with anxiety, alcoholism, eating disorders, depression, street drug use, and so on. I'm not a researcher, but some of this stuff on a spectrum seems to run in families.

Both my grandmothers were alcoholics.

--Essentially, know that you are not alone and that other families have struggles. Get more help from docs for him. And get more support for yourself and your daughter.

I called his psychiatrist today and will be seeing her on Monday


--He could very well grow out of by the time he is a young adult.
Keep hoping for him. He needs you.

I will never give up hope and will fight to get him what he needs.

Wendy.

[waves]

Dear Wendy,

has your son ever been screened for epilepsy? EEG? high fever as a kid? (high fevers overheat the brain and can cause epileptogenic changes). any incidents of head injury as a baby, predating the self-harm? reports of "lost" time? unexplained nocturnal injuries? unexplained loss of bowel control, nausea, vomiting? photosensitivity? i am just tossing things out there... if he has not been, your son should be specifically questioned by an expert (neuro) to see if he experiences events that might be seizures, or seizure aftermath. note that a negative EEG does not rule out epilepsy.

untreated epilepsy can produce a plethora psychological and behavioral traits and can be mis-diagnosed as primary mental illness.

Originally Posted by starling

He was on Respiridone but was getting constant De-ja-vu so had to come off. There was another med that I can't remember the name of, that made his limbs jerk around.

antipsychotics lower the seizure threshold and can produce seizures; in particular, they will worsen/increase seizures in those who have epilepsy.

i don't know how much you know about seizures but they are not always evident - many people only know about Grand Mal (tonic-clonic) seizure where people thrash around a lot... but there are many types. seizures can be extremely subtle and do not always involve movement. for instance simple partial seizures can be relatively transparent to an observer but, since one retains consciousness, the person going through them might experience anything from mild discomfort to great unpleasantness! now, IF your son had some strange and some very unpleasant experiences that he cannot describe... since he was very little... that could explain why he tries to hurt himself (esp. banging his head) and want to die. btw, some simple partials are experienced as an intense feeling of deja-vu.

The Ablify dose is only 2ml and he even had a reaction to that after he was ill with vomiting and didn't take it for 10 days. I made the mistake of giving him 2mls straight off instead of building him back up and he started to talk funny and said his tongue was stiff. I had to stop and build it up from 1ml.

do you see ANY difference, positive OR negative, between him unmedicated, and him on Abilify?

i hope you don't mind that i have given you other-than-bipolar input. Please take it as just that - input - considerations which may or may not be useful - only you can decide if they are or not.

i wish you and your family well.

~ waves ~

[Dmom3005]

Waves You could easily have hit it on the nose. It could easily be epilepsy
or rage seizures. I also think there is a good chance it could be intermittent
explosive disorder which you should really look up on the internet.

Its something that you have discribed to a tee. So please look it up.

I have a son that I have worked with for years and he is now 26 and
he is growing up pretty good.

Donna

[micktunbridge]

Hi wendy

I am a uk citizen married to a us citizen and living in the us.

My wife is legal guardian to her 10 year old nephew, she has had him since he was 5 months old. He was diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome as an infant. He is currently being assesed for biploar.
We have the same experience as you, the violence and moods.
The only thing he doesn't do is try to harm himself.
Like your son he is a sweet boy at other times.
He is currently in a childrens psychiatric hospital for treatment and because of concern for the saftey of our 22 month old daughter.

My wife and I are considering moving back to England but we are not sure of the services available to him there. The reason I'm replying to your post is because of your comment...
In the UK if we call the police we will lose custody of him so that will be a very last resort.

Here in our city we have a wonderfull police force, they have been called out to our nephew several times. Last time we had 8 police officers here and six paramedics, he wanted to take them all on. They eventually had to restrain him. They were called because he was chasing my wife down the street and trying to hit her with his metal scooter while she was holding the baby.
I was at work at the time.

The police here are very supportive and one officer has befriended our nephew, giving him his card and personal mobile number to call him anytime.
One time when he was called out he took him for a ride in his police car to help calm him.
Another time the police cuffed him, put him in their car and escorted my wife to his psychiatric appointment because he tried to strangle her with her seatbelt while she was driving.

Nothing has been said about losing custody of him unless we can't maintain the baby's saftey and then we could lose her.
So of course we are taking every precaution.

So if you can't call the police, who can you call?

Here we have emergency crisis intervention counselors that come to the home during a crisis; however, if the situation is too violent or the intervention team is understaffed then the advice is to call the police to implement a 51/50.

We are having second thoughts about moving back if we could lose custody just because of calling the police.


Here is a site that my wife recommends this site bpkids ****
they offer support groups and a wealth of information.
Our hospital recommended it.

Hope it helps

Mick & Kellie

[John Bellamy]

Dear Wendy

I write not to offer any advice, as I do not feel that I am in the position to do so. I write simply to reassure you that these conditions can improve significantly, and I speak from personal experience. Having suffered from bi polar dissorder during my late teens until my mid twenties it seemed like it would never improve. Fortunately, through the use of anti depressants and a large amount of determination and ressiliance my condition is now much more under control. I think that as your child gets older he will establish ways of managing his condition in the way that I was able to. This way he will be able to condition himself and reassure himeself during the bad times that he will not be like this forever.

Regards