[lou_lou]

read for yourself - on immunizations?

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

http://help.senate.gov/Maj_press/2009_07_15_b.pdf

[lou_lou]

Another portent of things to come if we give the government control of our health care: home visits to force immunization. Folks, this is not mad conspiracy theory - read the bill yourself (615 pages, so far)

Health Care Bill Will Fund State Vaccine Teams to Conduct 'Interventions' in Private Homes Thursday, July 16, 2009 By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
(CNSNews.com) - There is a knock at the front door. Peeking through the window, a mother sees a man and a woman, both in uniform. They are agents of health-care reform.

"Excuse me, ma'am," says the man. "Our records show that your eleven-year-old daughter has not been immunized for genital warts."

"And your four-year-old still needs the chicken-pox vaccine," says the woman.

"He will not be allowed to start kindergarten unless he gets that shot, you know," says the man--smiling from ear to ear.

"So, can we please come in?" asks the woman. "We have the vaccines right here," she says, lifting up a black medical bag. "We can give your kids the shots right now."

"We are from the government," says the man, "and we're here to help."
http://help.senate.gov/Maj_press/2009_07_15_b.pdf

http://www.wellsphere.com/down-syndr...ization/748381

[Conductor71]

Originally Posted by CTenaLouise

Another portent of things to come if we give the government control of our health care: home visits to force immunization. Folks, this is not mad conspiracy theory - read the bill yourself (615 pages, so far)

Health Care Bill Will Fund State Vaccine Teams to Conduct 'Interventions' in Private Homes Thursday, July 16, 2009 By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
(CNSNews.com) - There is a knock at the front door. Peeking through the window, a mother sees a man and a woman, both in uniform. They are agents of health-care reform.

Hi,

I appreciate that given the nebulous nature of how we contracted PD in the first place, many of us suspect or fear vaccinations. It's good for us to question the status quo. However, we should also be willing to open our minds to the possibility that misinformation may be the basis for our skepticism. Where does the CNS News source find this information, specifically that "State Vaccine Teams to Conduct 'Interventions' in Private Homes"? If one links to the actual bill; this is the exact wording provided:

‘‘(E) providing for home visits that promote immunization through education, assessments of need, referrals, provision of immunizations, or other services;"


Is there another section that I am missing on this topic? I interpret this in an entirely different light. Home visits to promote, refer, provide or other "services". Services, does not to me, equate with enforcing immunization; instead, I see it as funding provision to educate people. Keep in mind, states, have the option to use use funding for this purpose, not the mandate to enforce vaccination- nowhere does it state that the CDC has the right to enter homes with the intent to inject citizens. The bill simply spells out funding options at the state level; I don' fear that the immunization police will show at my doorstep, but I do fear that people who choose not to vaccinate their children may be creating some very serious problems that only future generations will know.

If parents continue not to vaccinate, I hate to see what sort of diseases will have a welcome mat, if not an open door, not only years from now, but as we speak. Didn't we just discuss how avian flu may provide a pathway to PD through inflammation of cells? Isn't the deadly flu strain of 1918, as a killer of millions, linked to people "awakening" years later to PD?

From the World Health Organization:

"Vaccines are among the most important medical interventions for reducing illness and deaths during a pandemic...During the 1957 and 1968 pandemics, vaccines arrived too late to be used as an effective mitigation tool during the more severe phases of the pandemics. Influenza vaccines had not yet been developed when the 1918 pandemic swept around the world, eventually killing an estimated 50 million people."

Can the vaccine be both villain and hero? You bet, all depending on our perspective. Let's look at this through the lens of living with PD. Let's say scientists establish without a doubt that viral infections cause PD for some people. Would any one of us, knowing what we do now, turn down a vaccine that prevented this causative flu strain? Would we want our grandchildren to forgo this intervention? I'm already compromised, but I'd like to know that someone is looking out for my son and future generations. Many of us may opt out of any vaccination, but isn't that because we look at it from a healthy person's perspective- my likelihood of contracting xyz disease is low, so the vaccine itself becomes the villain. I bet a person who contracted Polio might see it see it quite differently- the risk in the vaccine itself would most likely take a back seat to the larger benefit of disease prevention.

Just some of my thoughts as devil's advocate,

Laura

[stevem53]

The way I see it..Every President, Democrat or Republican caters to the big corporations..They finance the campaigns, so they get taken care of, and we get the leftover crumbs..Where theres big money, theres lots of influence and power..I will be very surprised if we get a good healthcare plan in the end..They are talking "reform"..I think we need something more substantial than reform

[paula_w]

Laura,

i agree with you. And I'm wondering if there are other ways that we are making it harder for ourselves genetically. Being so globally interactive now, are we making major changes in human genes? How do we solve illnesses with new racial/genetic combinations with no vaccines?

A world without immunity.....not since Garden of Eden I'm afraid.

Sci Fi or The Future is Here?
paula

Originally Posted by Conductor71

Hi,

I appreciate that given the nebulous nature of how we contracted PD in the first place, many of us suspect or fear vaccinations. It's good for us to question the status quo. However, we should also be willing to open our minds to the possibility that misinformation may be the basis for our skepticism. Where does the CNS News source find this information, specifically that "State Vaccine Teams to Conduct 'Interventions' in Private Homes"? If one links to the actual bill; this is the exact wording provided:

‘‘(E) providing for home visits that promote immunization through education, assessments of need, referrals, provision of immunizations, or other services;"


Is there another section that I am missing on this topic? I interpret this in an entirely different light. Home visits to promote, refer, provide or other "services". Services, does not to me, equate with enforcing immunization; instead, I see it as funding provision to educate people. Keep in mind, states, have the option to use use funding for this purpose, not the mandate to enforce vaccination- nowhere does it state that the CDC has the right to enter homes with the intent to inject citizens. The bill simply spells out funding options at the state level; I don' fear that the immunization police will show at my doorstep, but I do fear that people who choose not to vaccinate their children may be creating some very serious problems that only future generations will know.

If parents continue not to vaccinate, I hate to see what sort of diseases will have a welcome mat, if not an open door, not only years from now, but as we speak. Didn't we just discuss how avian flu may provide a pathway to PD through inflammation of cells? Isn't the deadly flu strain of 1918, as a killer of millions, linked to people "awakening" years later to PD?

From the World Health Organization:

"Vaccines are among the most important medical interventions for reducing illness and deaths during a pandemic...During the 1957 and 1968 pandemics, vaccines arrived too late to be used as an effective mitigation tool during the more severe phases of the pandemics. Influenza vaccines had not yet been developed when the 1918 pandemic swept around the world, eventually killing an estimated 50 million people."

Can the vaccine be both villain and hero? You bet, all depending on our perspective. Let's look at this through the lens of living with PD. Let's say scientists establish without a doubt that viral infections cause PD for some people. Would any one of us, knowing what we do now, turn down a vaccine that prevented this causative flu strain? Would we want our grandchildren to forgo this intervention? I'm already compromised, but I'd like to know that someone is looking out for my son and future generations. Many of us may opt out of any vaccination, but isn't that because we look at it from a healthy person's perspective- my likelihood of contracting xyz disease is low, so the vaccine itself becomes the villain. I bet a person who contracted Polio might see it see it quite differently- the risk in the vaccine itself would most likely take a back seat to the larger benefit of disease prevention.

Just some of my thoughts as devil's advocate,

Laura

[Chemar]

just mentioning that I have removed the president's name from this thread so as to keep it topical, rather than too political... discussion of health care reform is fine. Specific Politics needs to be limited here as per the guidelines.
thanks

[caldeerster]

CNS News is not an unbiased source.

"The CNSNews.com (or Cybercast News Service) is an American news website owned by the Media Research Center. It was founded on June 16, 1998 under the name "Conservative News Service"[1] ; "Conservative" was changed to "Cybercast" in 2000 after the MRC was unable to trademark the name "Conservative News Service."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybercast_News_Service

It was founded by Brent Bozell, a conservative activist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

[jcitron]

Originally Posted by stevem53

The way I see it..Every President, Democrat or Republican caters to the big corporations..They finance the campaigns, so they get taken care of, and we get the leftover crumbs..Where theres big money, theres lots of influence and power..I will be very surprised if we get a good healthcare plan in the end..They are talking "reform"..I think we need something more substantial than reform

I agree Steve. Let's hope this plan is better tan the *edit* health plan put in by Mitt Romney. This is the most totally useless POS I've ever seen.

Talk about catering to self interests. A particular doctor's group handles the plan. You have to join their group and you lose your pirmary care doctor and any other specialist. Oh you can go to your former doctors, but pay for it extra because "they're not part of the group". They will also deny coverage just because they've paid too much. This actually made the news a year or two ago. A woman in California had cancer and was denied coverage because they had already paid "too much" for her.

They also conveniently lose applications required for renewal. My sister is on the plan and periodically she has to update her status, like she's going to make $35000 a year instantly in this economy. She gets the application and sends it back in time. They lose the paperwork and force her to reapply.

They save money covering the services this way because there's one less patient in the system. If they can do this for few 1,000 people, they've pockted a huge sum by not needing to pay doctors and only take in the subsidies.

Their drug plan sounds oh so great at first. but watch out. My sister again needs some medication, one of which will cause convultions if she's off. Her doctor was away, and the insurance wouldn't authorize a refill even as an emergency to cover the weekend. She nearly ended up in the ER, and my dad called our state representative. His office made a few calls, and the medication was made available without questions.

I'm sorry to sound negative, but the national plan is a great idea if it worked like it does in Europe with the single point system. Unfortunately, this country is so steeped in special interests that have more at stake financially and care less about the good of the population.

John

[girija]

Laura,
Thanks for taking the 'devils advocate" position and I guess I might be the devil here! I am far beyond surprised at the negative campaign on vaccines these days. There is so much of misinformation (actually scientifically incorrect) on vaccines out there, that the word vaccine rather than infection has become a dreaded word. I will be the first one to admit, that the vaccines that are available now are not the best of best, but how many of the drugs out there are 100% safe and effective? For that matter the air we breathe, water we drink and the food we eat are no longer the best things for us! World-wide statistics clearly show how effective vaccines are in saving lives. Their benefits over weigh their ill effects. This is the global perspective.

I do understand the anger of a mother when she sees a correlation between vaccination and autism or any other illness. As a mother, I would love to have vaccines or any other drugs/treatments given to my child to be better than 100% safe and effective. There are ways to make vaccines better and less "toxic" these days and that should be the campaign, make safer vaccines, not stop vaccinations.

Anyway, I can go on and on about the necessity and benefits of vaccines!! I did that once before here! We had a long discussion on vaccines a few months ago here and dont want to do that again!!

thanks
Girija

Originally Posted by Conductor71

Hi,

I appreciate that given the nebulous nature of how we contracted PD in the first place, many of us suspect or fear vaccinations. It's good for us to question the status quo. However, we should also be willing to open our minds to the possibility that misinformation may be the basis for our skepticism. Where does the CNS News source find this information, specifically that "State Vaccine Teams to Conduct 'Interventions' in Private Homes"? If one links to the actual bill; this is the exact wording provided:

‘‘(E) providing for home visits that promote immunization through education, assessments of need, referrals, provision of immunizations, or other services;"


Is there another section that I am missing on this topic? I interpret this in an entirely different light. Home visits to promote, refer, provide or other "services". Services, does not to me, equate with enforcing immunization; instead, I see it as funding provision to educate people. Keep in mind, states, have the option to use use funding for this purpose, not the mandate to enforce vaccination- nowhere does it state that the CDC has the right to enter homes with the intent to inject citizens. The bill simply spells out funding options at the state level; I don' fear that the immunization police will show at my doorstep, but I do fear that people who choose not to vaccinate their children may be creating some very serious problems that only future generations will know.

If parents continue not to vaccinate, I hate to see what sort of diseases will have a welcome mat, if not an open door, not only years from now, but as we speak. Didn't we just discuss how avian flu may provide a pathway to PD through inflammation of cells? Isn't the deadly flu strain of 1918, as a killer of millions, linked to people "awakening" years later to PD?

From the World Health Organization:

"Vaccines are among the most important medical interventions for reducing illness and deaths during a pandemic...During the 1957 and 1968 pandemics, vaccines arrived too late to be used as an effective mitigation tool during the more severe phases of the pandemics. Influenza vaccines had not yet been developed when the 1918 pandemic swept around the world, eventually killing an estimated 50 million people."

Can the vaccine be both villain and hero? You bet, all depending on our perspective. Let's look at this through the lens of living with PD. Let's say scientists establish without a doubt that viral infections cause PD for some people. Would any one of us, knowing what we do now, turn down a vaccine that prevented this causative flu strain? Would we want our grandchildren to forgo this intervention? I'm already compromised, but I'd like to know that someone is looking out for my son and future generations. Many of us may opt out of any vaccination, but isn't that because we look at it from a healthy person's perspective- my likelihood of contracting xyz disease is low, so the vaccine itself becomes the villain. I bet a person who contracted Polio might see it see it quite differently- the risk in the vaccine itself would most likely take a back seat to the larger benefit of disease prevention.

Just some of my thoughts as devil's advocate,

Laura

[stevem53]

Originally Posted by jcitron

I agree Steve. Let's hope this plan is better tan the *edit* health plan put in by Mitt Romney. This is the most totally useless POS I've ever seen.

Talk about catering to self interests. A particular doctor's group handles the plan. You have to join their group and you lose your pirmary care doctor and any other specialist. Oh you can go to your former doctors, but pay for it extra because "they're not part of the group". They will also deny coverage just because they've paid too much. This actually made the news a year or two ago. A woman in California had cancer and was denied coverage because they had already paid "too much" for her.

They also conveniently lose applications required for renewal. My sister is on the plan and periodically she has to update her status, like she's going to make $35000 a year instantly in this economy. She gets the application and sends it back in time. They lose the paperwork and force her to reapply.

They save money covering the services this way because there's one less patient in the system. If they can do this for few 1,000 people, they've pockted a huge sum by not needing to pay doctors and only take in the subsidies.

Their drug plan sounds oh so great at first. but watch out. My sister again needs some medication, one of which will cause convultions if she's off. Her doctor was away, and the insurance wouldn't authorize a refill even as an emergency to cover the weekend. She nearly ended up in the ER, and my dad called our state representative. His office made a few calls, and the medication was made available without questions.

I'm sorry to sound negative, but the national plan is a great idea if it worked like it does in Europe with the single point system. Unfortunately, this country is so steeped in special interests that have more at stake financially and care less about the good of the population.

John

That is the ugly truth as I see it..And I think it gets even uglier when you take a good hard brutally honest look at big corporate pharma..When you multiply the number of pd patients times the dollar amount of pd meds sold..Why would they be interested in such things as "cures?"..Amgen has already proved that theory to be truth