[Ibken]

In response to the queries about info on Mucuna, it seems to me that Ayurvedic Drs and Practitioners would be a good place to start. Dr. Vasant Lad is a good one I've heard of in NM. Also, herbalists like David Frawley. Most Neuro's simply weren't taught, don't know and don't care about "herbs" (or beans!) !! Just not their area if expertise. Google is such a great tool!

Ibby

[Fiona]

HI Ibby-
the problem I have discovered in trying to research this in the past is that almost nobody seems to have expertise in both a 'traditional' discipline, such as ayurveda, or herbalism, and a 'modern' approach, and they really don't know how to mediate with the heavy pharmaceuticals that so many of us with PD are on. These drugs have a really strong energy, as I'm sure you know, and my frustration is that every alternative technique I've tried is really kind of clueless about how to work with you if you are on these drugs.

We urgently need experts who can bridge the gap or help us down other paths if we want to go there. I guess there ARE medical doctors who also do acupuncture...maybe should be investigated more.

[Max19BC]

I believe Aryurveda methods can help pd'ers in many ways. In taking mucuna, I did more research, and found that mucuna (been taking it for 1 1/2 yrs. now) is one of the herbs used in treating PD in Aryurveda medicine. I found an excellent Aryurveda College and treatment center in California.

I decided to try a "Pancha Karma" there.
If you're interested, I would like to share with you my experience of going through a "Pancha Karma". This was a 10 day cleansing to remove toxins out of my body. I went there last year. Pancha Karma is considered the single most powerful healing therapies utilized in Ayurvedic medicine.
It all started on May 22 with my initial 2 hour meeting with Dr. Marc Halpern, D.C., C.A.S., P.K.S. in Grass Valley, CA. He is an Ayurvedic practitioner and started the ayurveda college and healthcare center there.
During this initial visit he was able to determine my constitution. Constitution is the fundamental and unique balance of three basic energies called doshas. They are Vata, Pitta and Kapha. He also went over my medical history, how I live, act, habits, and how I go about my daily life. This initial meeting could of been done over the phone, but I wanted to meet him in person.
He started me on a very strict diet. For the next 10 days, I could only eat Kitcheree. Kitcheree is mainly rice, split mung dal (bean) with some specific spices. If hungry, in-between meals, I could have nonfat diluted yogurt with water (50/50) and raw unsalted sunflower seeds. I was allowed to add a little maple sugar to the yogurt, if I got light headed. Didn't think I could do it, but I did. He also gave me some herbs to help loosen up my digestive track.
I came back 10 days later to start my treatments. Same strict diet, with some new cleansing herbs added.
Mt treatments consisted of the following:
Every day started with an Abhyanga: This is a two person choreographed warm herbal oil massage that is designed to bring nourishment to the tissues, deep relaxation to the muscles and calmness to the mind. It also helps in the removal of toxins from the body.
Every other day I had a Shirodhara: This is a simple, yet profound treatment that works specifically on balancing and stabilizing the activity of the mind. Warm, dosha specific oils and herbs are streamed over the Ajna Chakra or third eye taking me on a journey deeeep within. So far so gooood. I was in heaven.
On the other days, I would have a Nasya: A beautiful face and shoulder massage is followed by a heat treatment using warm packs and hot towels to open the pores, improve the skins luster and clear the nasal and sinus passages. My head was tilted back for the administration of dosha specific oils to the nasal passages to normalize the absorption of prana and lift the spirit. I could actually feel the oils going behind my eyeballs even though it was administered through the nose. A very weird but calming feeling.
Next came my daily enema.... They alternated from a water enema one day (herbally decocted with Dashmool and Triphala. Meant for cleaning toxins from colon.) to having an oil enema (Sesame oil, herbaly infused with Ashwagandha and Gaducci. Meant for tonification of the colon, the home of Vata.) the next day. Finally, it all ended with a hot steamy tent over me and a well needed shower.

While I was there, they explained to me how important it is to remove the accumulated toxins (ama) from my body and to do my best in preventing it from building up again. Ama is toxins caused by what and how we eat, pollutant / toxins in our environment, stress in our life, from how we think, live and act, etc. They believe, for pd'ers, that ama is really in there deep. It has to be, in order to effect the nervous system that severely. Marc, believes that if I change my lifestyle, my diet, way of thinking, habits, etc. that my pd will stabilize and could even start reversing itself. So it really up to me now. It’s a lot more than just taking "mucuna".
They also talked about how important it is to meditate, do yoga, respect and appreciate the food you eat, proper breathing exercises, how to live in the present with joy, avoid stress, etc.
I’m just about finished with my cleansing diet now, I’m in my fourth week. I lost 15 pounds, never realized how much I was full of it. They also gave me my "Vata / Pita" (my constitution) food program.
In their bookstore, I picked up a great cookbook called: "The Ayurvedic Cookbook" by Amadea Morningstar. It also has lots of info on Ayurveda. and it lets your know which food is best for your constitution. Speaking of books, my favorite book on meditation exercises for health, well-being and enlightenment is called: "The Healing Power of Mind" by Tulku Thondup.

So it's been a year now since my Pancha Karma. Has it been worth it? Definitely, I feel a whole less toxic, my skin is healthy, no longer have cravings for McDonald's or Starbucks. Well, sometimes. I feel GREAT. My meds are a lot more effective, lasts longer, my mind is calmer and I’m enjoying life more. I’m even able to do my morning walk unmediated now, couldn’t do that before.
Oh one more thing, Marc is having me take two additional herbs to help rebuild my nervous system. He wants me to take it with my mucuna. They are:
Ashwaganda: A well-known rejuvenating tonic used in Ayurveda for stress-inducad fatigue, nervous exhaustion and general debility. Strengthens and nourishes both mind and body.
and Brahmi: Traditionally used in southern India as a rejuvenate for the nerves and brain. believed to increase mental clarity, promotes memory and intelligence.
After a couple of weeks, I was able to notice improvements in my mental capacity and clarity.

Marc gave me lots of info to read. This is my favorite and maybe the most valuable is this:
How you eat your food is even more important than what you eat. In fact, Ayurveda understands that eating is one of the most sacred experences we have. After all, when we eat our food, we are taking in the atoms and molecules that have been around in different forms since the beginning of time and asking them to become part of us. If we eat our food properly, with awareness and respect, the food joins well with our bodies. If we do not, the food has difficulty joining with our bodies causes gas and other digestive disturbances. The end result of poor digestion is ama (toxins formed from bad digestion) and this leads to disease. Hence, in Ayurveda, we try our best to make eating a form of meditation (to eat in peacefulness and with awareness).


This Pancha Karma treatment really wasn’t that hard on me. I had to rest and take it easy. No TV was allowed during these 10 days. Marc wanted me to keep my mind, spirit & body calm and relaxed. I meditated, did proper breathing exercises, read calming books, Yoga, peaceful walks in the forest, etc. He even had me do “NO TALKING” a day of silence. It was a very pleasent experience. It has helped me turn to a new page in my life.

The Ayurveda Healthcare Center I went to is located in Grass Valley, CA
530-274-9100

Max

[Max19BC]

I believe Aryurveda methods can help pd'ers in many ways. After I've started taking mucuna, I did more research, and found that mucuna (been taking it for 1 1/2 yrs. now) is one of the herbs used in treating PD in Aryurveda medicine. So I wanted to see what this was all about. After a lot of searching, I found an excellent Aryurveda College and treatment center in California.

I decided to try a "Pancha Karma" there.
Read on if you're interested, I would like to share with you my experience of going through a "Pancha Karma". This was a 10 day cleansing to remove toxins out of my body. I went there last year. Pancha Karma is considered the single most powerful healing therapies utilized in Ayurvedic medicine.
It all started with my initial 2 hour meeting with Dr. Marc Halpern, D.C., C.A.S., P.K.S. in Grass Valley, CA. He is an Ayurvedic practitioner and started the ayurveda college and healthcare center there.
During this initial visit he was able to determine my constitution. Constitution is the fundamental and unique balance of three basic energies called doshas. They are Vata, Pitta and Kapha. He also went over my medical history, how I live, act, habits, and how I go about my daily life. This initial meeting could of been done over the phone, but I wanted to meet him in person.
He started me on a very strict diet. For the next 10 days, I could only eat Kitcheree. Kitcheree is mainly rice, split mung dal (bean) with some specific spices. If hungry, in-between meals, I could have nonfat diluted yogurt with water (50/50) and raw unsalted sunflower seeds. I was allowed to add a little maple sugar to the yogurt, if I got light headed. Didn't think I could do it, but I did. He also gave me some herbs to help loosen up my digestive track.
I came back 10 days later to start my treatments. Same strict diet, with some new cleansing herbs added.
Mt treatments consisted of the following:
Every day started with an Abhyanga: This is a two person choreographed warm herbal oil massage that is designed to bring nourishment to the tissues, deep relaxation to the muscles and calmness to the mind. It also helps in the removal of toxins from the body.
Every other day I had a Shirodhara: This is a simple, yet profound treatment that works specifically on balancing and stabilizing the activity of the mind. Warm, dosha specific oils and herbs are streamed over the Ajna Chakra or third eye taking me on a journey deeeep within. So far so gooood. I was in heaven.
On the other days, I would have a Nasya: A beautiful face and shoulder massage is followed by a heat treatment using warm packs and hot towels to open the pores, improve the skins luster and clear the nasal and sinus passages. My head was tilted back for the administration of dosha specific oils to the nasal passages to normalize the absorption of prana and lift the spirit. I could actually feel the oils going behind my eyeballs even though it was administered through the nose. A very weird but calming feeling.
Next came my daily enema.... They alternated from a water enema one day (herbally decocted with Dashmool and Triphala. Meant for cleaning toxins from colon.) to having an oil enema (Sesame oil, herbaly infused with Ashwagandha and Gaducci. Meant for tonification of the colon, the home of Vata.) the next day. Finally, it all ended with a hot steamy tent over me and a well needed shower.

While I was there, they explained to me how important it is to remove the accumulated toxins (ama) from my body and to do my best in preventing it from building up again. Ama is toxins caused by what and how we eat, pollutant / toxins in our environment, stress in our life, from how we think, live and act, etc. They believe, for pd'ers, that ama is really in there deep. It has to be, in order to effect the nervous system that severely. Marc, believes that if I change my lifestyle, my diet, way of thinking, habits, etc. that my pd will stabilize and could even start reversing itself. So it really up to me now. It’s a lot more than just taking "mucuna".
They also talked about how important it is to meditate, do yoga, respect and appreciate the food you eat, proper breathing exercises, how to live in the present with joy, avoid stress, etc.
I’m just about finished with my cleansing diet now, I’m in my fourth week. I lost 15 pounds, never realized how much I was full of it. They also gave me my "Vata / Pita" (my constitution) food program.
In their bookstore, I picked up a great cookbook called: "The Ayurvedic Cookbook" by Amadea Morningstar. It also has lots of info on Ayurveda. and it lets your know which food is best for your constitution. Speaking of books, my favorite book on meditation exercises for health, well-being and enlightenment is called: "The Healing Power of Mind" by Tulku Thondup.

So it's been a year now since my Pancha Karma. Has it been worth it? Definitely, my parkinsons HAS NOT gotten any worse. If anything I'm getting better. I feel a whole less toxic, my skin is healthy, no longer have cravings for McDonald's or Starbucks. Well, sometimes. I feel GREAT. My meds are a lot more effective, lasts longer, my mind is calmer and I’m enjoying life more. I’m even able to do my morning walk unmediated now, couldn’t do that before. And just last week, I can now go for an hour walk in the evening unmedicated. But I still need my herbs during the busy part of the day if I want to be active.
Oh one more thing, Marc is having me take two additional herbs to help rebuild my nervous system. He wants me to take it with my mucuna. They are:
Ashwaganda: A well-known rejuvenating tonic used in Ayurveda for stress-inducad fatigue, nervous exhaustion and general debility. Strengthens and nourishes both mind and body.
and Brahmi: Traditionally used in southern India as a rejuvenate for the nerves and brain. believed to increase mental clarity, promotes memory and intelligence.
After a couple of weeks, I was able to notice improvements in my mental capacity and clarity.

Marc gave me lots of info to read. This is my favorite and maybe the most valuable is this:
How you eat your food is even more important than what you eat. In fact, Ayurveda understands that eating is one of the most sacred experences we have. After all, when we eat our food, we are taking in the atoms and molecules that have been around in different forms since the beginning of time and asking them to become part of us. If we eat our food properly, with awareness and respect, the food joins well with our bodies. If we do not, the food has difficulty joining with our bodies causes gas and other digestive disturbances. The end result of poor digestion is ama (toxins formed from bad digestion) and this leads to disease. Hence, in Ayurveda, we try our best to make eating a form of meditation (to eat in peacefulness and with awareness).


This Pancha Karma treatment really wasn’t that hard on me. I had to rest and take it easy. No TV was allowed during these 10 days. Marc wanted me to keep my mind, spirit & body calm and relaxed. I meditated, did proper breathing exercises, read calming books, Yoga, peaceful walks in the forest, etc. He even had me do “NO TALKING” a day of silence. It was a very pleasent experience. It has helped me turn to a new page in my life.

The Ayurveda Healthcare Center I went to is located in Grass Valley, CA
530-274-9100

Max

[Canna]

I have undiagnosed tremors and am considering seeing an ayurvedic physician. Has anyone tried it except Max on this thread. Max, I found your post about panchakarma very informative. Have you been able to keep up the recommendations you received from Dr. Halpern? Is it helping? Thanks. Kim

[girija]

Hello Max,
I am so glad to hear your positive experiences with Panchakarma treatment. Last year, I had a similar treatment in an Ayurvedic center in India. Just as you described, after 3 weeks of therapy, I wa s a different person. I am thinking of going again and it is nice to know such a facility exists right here in california.
Thanks for providing all the details of the treatment and contacts.

I have a couple of questions for you. Did they give you Ayurvedic medicines while you were there and some to continue after you leave the place? Were/are you on PD meds now? Are you still following ayurvedic way of life?

I feel alternate treatments like Ayurveda, acupuncture helped me to cut down on my meds especially Mirapex (with great difficulty of course!) and Carbidopa. More than anything else, this combination gave me enough energy and motivation to pursue my interests. Both physical and mental functions are better than two years ago/ Mind-body connection at work I guess!

Thnaks again for your post and all the information.

Canna, I highly recommend it, especially if you are a believer of alternative meds.

Girija

[Conductor71]

Originally Posted by Fiona

HI Ibby-
the problem I have discovered in trying to research this in the past is that almost nobody seems to have expertise in both a 'traditional' discipline, such as ayurveda, or herbalism, and a 'modern' approach, and they really don't know how to mediate with the heavy pharmaceuticals that so many of us with PD are on. These drugs have a really strong energy, as I'm sure you know, and my frustration is that every alternative technique I've tried is really kind of clueless about how to work with you if you are on these drugs.

We urgently need experts who can bridge the gap or help us down other paths if we want to go there. I guess there ARE medical doctors who also do acupuncture...maybe should be investigated more.

Fiona,

I have been questioning the very same thing. I have run across The National Ayurvedic Institute in NY. The director of this institute claims to be the only Ayurvedic Practitioner in the US with an MD? He does offer consultation and treats PWP. Has anyone ever visited here or know anything about the practice? I am considering a trip...

On a cautionary note: Many of you probably know this but Ayurvedic herbal supplements can contain high amounts of metals- just what we don't need crossing our blood-brain-barrier. From a Reuters article:

"Several Indian-manufactured rasa shastra medicines could result in lead and/or mercury ingestions 100 to 10,000 times greater than acceptable limits," the investigators report.
"Among the metal-containing products, 95 percent were sold by U.S. Web sites and 75 percent claimed Good Manufacturing Practices," the researchers note.

The article concludes by naming resources to use in checking the quality of what you may want to order.

Laura

[Canna]

Girija.

I am so interested to hear about the care your received in India and, if you don't mind, the cost as well. Are you maintaining a vata-pacifying diet and if so, is it difficult to keep? What other practices did you incorporate into your life that were recommended to you there? Did they stress some as being more important than others? I hope you don't mind the probing questions. I want to try ayurveda but it is hard to find someone else who has. It looks like Max hasn't posted for months so he may not answer. I am your neighbor to the north--I am on the southwestern tip of LA county rather than the west coast. There is a place in Newport Beach that I am looking into and may decide to drive there rather than go to Grass Valley since you have to stay at a hotel there because they don't have you stay there anyway.

Kim

[girija]

Laura,
Here is a little more information on Ayurvedic doctors in India today. There are Ayruvedic Medical schools that teach both "western" as well as Ayruvedic medicine, students go through a basic curriculum as in Med School. Medical degree is termed MBBS and further specializations are MDs. So if you find a doctor trained in India, you get the best of both worlds.

National Ayurvedic Institute[/URL] in NY. The director of this institute claims to be the only Ayurvedic Practitioner in the US with an MD? He does offer consultation and treats PWP. Has anyone ever visited here or know anything about the practice? I am considering a trip...

I just checked th website of NAI and the directors biodata looks great. He got his training and degree from well reputed Ayurvedic schools. Pancha Karma practice was the recommended therapy for PD .

i am glad you wrote:

On a cautionary note: Many of you probably know this but Ayurvedic herbal supplements can contain high amounts of metals- just what we don't need crossing our blood-brain-barrier. From a Reuters article:

"Several Indian-manufactured rasa shastra medicines could result in lead and/or mercury ingestions 100 to 10,000 times greater than acceptable limits,m" the investigators report.
"Among the metal-containing products, 95 percent were sold by U.S. Web sites and 75 percent claimed Good Manufacturing Practices," the researchers note.

The article concludes by naming resources to use in checking the quality of what you may want to order.

Laura

[/QUOTE]

AIMs

When i asked my doctor about ayurvedic medicines, this is what he told me; There is no one med for all and no med contains a single component. (Just the opposite of what we have here!). The doctor examines and determines what type you are, (sort of like the personality test we all did, but in medical terms) and prescribes freshly prepared multi component liquid medicine/ This formulation is what makes ayurvedic meds safer despite the metals or other ingredients. Herbal extracts are mixed at specific ratios for each patient depending on the condition. During this process, many properties, toxicities of individual components are rapidly altered and and new compounds are created which work transiently in the human body.

This sort of chemistry makes perfect sense to me. I am not a chemist, but can understand the differences between sodium and sodium chloride. Only an ayurvedic doctor knows what meds are suitable for each of us. If you want to try this, please dont buy medicines from a store or onthe web without consulting a doctor

Thanks ]]
Girija

[EnglishCountryDancer]

Does anyone know a good centre in the U.K?