As if this pathway is easily explained by a teacher of learning impaired -young learning impaired -it becomes a cobweb if you get in very far. now the captain is also learning impaired.....we're still afloat tho. enough psychology.

i saw this term today for the first time , or at least the first time i ever focused upon it , remember I am not the scientist, but think my question is reasonable . There is an article from 23and me, which i still owe spit to because my first sample came back. i'll get to it. this will give me the kick in the butt i need because it yields info about pseudocholinesterase deficiency.

Background

Pseudocholinesterase deficiency is an inherited enzyme abnormality that results in abnormally slow metabolic degradation of exogenous cholinester drugs such as succinylcholine. A variety of pathologic conditions, physiologic alterations, and medications also can lower plasma pseudocholinesterase activity.

review: [any good teacher would do so] lol

• cholinergic - vague term that describes the action of the enzyme that breaks down the acetylcholine and keeps it low, as it is supposed to be. when used alone this term can be confusing about whether they are talking about the enzyme breaking it down and keeping acetycholine low, or if the are talking about ....

cholinesterases - when you see the 'esterase' at the end, it means the enzyme that breaks it down

anti cholinesterase - means you are inhibiting the enzyme that breaks down the acetycholine, thus allowing it to accumulate and incease, and hoping to improve cognitive skills in alzhemiers.

pesticide poisoning can attach itself to the cholinesterase enzyme, thus making the acetylcholine higher in people who have been poisoned?? who knows?

23 and me has an article about this and now i'm very motivated about sending in my second sample.

A genetic mutation could affect our cholinesterase enzymes. This sounds to me like something that could actually cause parkinson's in some people. .either genetically or thru poisoning or both.

just to confuse the terminology, this genetic finding is called pseudocholinesterase, which is not the same as anticholinesterase.
Again, PWP may or may not need acetylcholine....if anything they need an anti cholinergic to do the work of cholinesterase.to lower it. it still does not justify giving us yet even more acetylcholine with cholinesterase inhibitors. [aricept, exelon.]

it logically means the opposite does it not? with a genetic mutation, perhaps we have always needed less acetylcholine...our entire lives...starting with cholic, high strung, hyper, excitable. Too much acetylcholine slows or stops the production of dopamine. it paralyzes. our hearts go off beat and even alzheimers patients who need acetycholine end up with pacemakers and heart attack and death.

Could everyone check their results from 23 and me about the gene for pseudo cholinesterase deficiency? And again i could be close but incorrect. please jump in and correct me if my facts or comprehension is off. i can take it and welcome it for the good of all. anti, pseudo, ergic or esterase -yikes

good for pd-

• low acetylcholine [which is normal]-low is good for everyone ..it's excitatory and leads to adrenalin and stress hormone cotisol. must recover from it.

[LIST]working anticholinesterase emzyme to break down acetylcholine

so anti cholinergic drugs do the work of these enzymes, which could be low or damaged by pesticide poisoning that may attach to the cholinesterase inhibitor and make it dysfunctional. if it is dysfunctional and they find a gene i say hip hip hooray. it at least eliminates or identifies another reason for us to have too much acetycholinero
it all comes from ashes and dust, the perfect machine, but we are so far from anyone caring about a real cure. if this topic cannot be answered here, debi it seems worthy of the criteria you are looking for at pdonlineresearch. Can you please have someone begin a thread on this on PDOR?

I'd like to be caught up on the research , maybe they are working on it...but why do they use Alzheimers dementia scales and would they use patients to come up with a pdd scale??

we know lots of incidental and i'm starting to think scientific infor as well- that they miss because for whatever reasons, they don't connect the dots and don't have time to be online to be current.

Would like very much to hear this topic discussed and feel that anticholinergics have room to improve and could truly help us all to relax. at least some of us.

is it any wonder i'm an excitatory mess? many of you may have battles of your own kind, like withdrawal:
[I]changing meds has been elaborated upon by the DA pd drugs halt and withdrawal. it has always been quite difficult to change meds and i never looked forward to it. but my first neuro gave me everything there was before he gave in and prescribed sinemet. i wasn't so unlike you boann i had symptoms for 10 years before taking sinemet.

ok if anyone finds anything about this please join in with what you find. either everyone knows something i don't, or pdd dementia is going to suffer as they will die anyway - we are the ones who have to figure this out, as they will **** you as you watch.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/247019-overview

Paula,

There is an excellent article at Medcape Today with info on genetics involved.
You are right in that it can be caused by organophosphate pesticide poisoning, but all I see is that results in respiratory paralysis if patient is given succynilcholine (whatever that is). I didn't see anywhere that it causes
Parkinsonism.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/247019-overview

Is there for sure a test for this? Didn't see anything on it at 23 and me.

Laura

Someone sent it to me so it might have been in her papers from them, sorry. New terminology pops up frequently tho have you noticed that recently? No definites or answers yet Laura, mostly questions.

paula

Hello everyone! I was startled to see this as a topec. I have this deficiency. When I had my children by c-section, I woke up on a respirator. At that time, the Drs attributted to asthma. Every camping vacation trip while growing up, I was a real drag because I was always sick after spraying insectiside all over myself. I found out what was wrong through my cousins in Canada when they had surgery and couldn't breathe after. Unfortunately for me, my husband & I lived in the SanJuaquin Valley in California for 2 years-1998-2000. That is where they grow most of our food and seem to enjoy spraying pesticides from the air. I really feel that is one of the factors in my having PD. I enjoy all of the conversations going on. I met many of you at the CRLI in October. I wish we all lived closer and could spend time together. I forgot to mention that my deficiency was confirmed by 23&me. Cheers! Franny

Hi,

How scary! I had some nasty rebound or intensified PD symptoms while pregnant, but I can not imagine waking up a respirator!

BTW, thanks for sharing your 23andme results; I logged into my account and just discovered that many new health screens were updated in the several months since I opened my account. They now run a test for focal dystonia! I am negative for being a carrier in both tests.

Laura

Welcome franny!

Thanks for telling your story about this....it was very helpful. I looked up succinylcholine and found that it is used in surgery with anesthesia and acts like acetylcholine. Acetycholine paralyzes certain muscles. There is a warning out about using it with children and with muscular conditions like some types of muscular dystrophy. The culprit?

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/succinylcholine.html

I am assuming you had your children by surgery before you talked with your cousins in Canada? That's scary!

So insecticides made you sick. And you have a genetic mutation. I'm going to continue digging on this topic...can't help but wonder if it's related to your PD. You have helped to steer me in the right direction.

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/GAR...eficiency.aspx

hope to hear from you and more crli grads.
paula

Yep, they sent me the same thing. Now what was the question? lol
Peggy

hi peg,

i just cleaned up the first post some. the question was how does all this relate to pd and to pwp being given alzheimers drugs and the first need was to learn just what pseudocholinesterase deficiency was, because it [the cholinesterase enzymes regulate acetylcholine.]

Here's what i learned so far:

it is inherited. some say it can also be acquired tho ...lol..figures. contradiction.....

it is not of too great a concern - if you tell the anesthesiologist about it so they don't use succinylcholine during surgery. [can you tell this was written by a non patient geek or doctor? what if you don't know you have it? - franny sounds like she didn't]?

what happens if you don't know you have it is you stop breathing and have trouble waking after surgery. this is because you have a mega acetylcholine type drug, along with dsyfunctional enzymes that do not break it down. So another enzyme is breaking it down but slower -so you don't wake up for a longer period of time. muscles are paralyzed. but they have the machines to bring you back...unless you are a kid.....then you can easily die. Thus the warning.

otherwise , if you read the literature on it you'll see that it is rare.

now i have a different question - why did insecticide make franny sick?

i checked a can of REPEL - my husband takes my grandson to cubscout camping trips and guys are harder to get to use skin so soft. they will now..if i have to go along to make it happen.

The can doesn't tell you all of the ingredients, just lists the percentage of DEET which is 40% - almost half.

so i typed in a google search asking
"what are the ingredients in REPEL other than DEET?
got this and this of course is why franny got sick when it had nothing to do with surgery.........

Science News
Popular Insect Repellent Deet Is Neurotoxic
ScienceDaily (Aug. 6, 2009)

Vincent Corbel from the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement in Montpellier, and Bruno Lapied from the University of Angers, France, led a team of researchers who investigated the mode of action and toxicity of deet (N,N-Diethyl-3-methylbenzamide). Corbel said, "We've found that deet is not simply a behavior-modifying chemical but also inhibits the activity of a key central nervous system enzyme, acetycholinesterase, in both insects and mammals".

Discovered in 1953, deet is still the most common ingredient in insect repellent preparations

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0804193230.htm

so the DEET rendered the enzyme cholinesterase dysfunctional,[even more so but they already are dysfunctional in PSACheD] just like aricept and exelon do.....increasing acetylcholine which poisoned franny , making her sick. what else was happening with franny? her dopamine was slowed or stopped. now franny has pd.

I'm sure we all have had multiple exposures to various pesticides. do we have to have the inherited form of pseudocholinesterase deficiency for it to be permanent damage?

do people with pseudocholinesterase deficiency have cognition exceptionalities of any kind?

this is right on the can of insect repellant...... messing with our neurotransmitters is dangerous stuff......franny has clearly met the requirments for the suspected causes of pd...genetic mutation and neurotoxic exposure.

franny has anyone questioned you about this connection? i'll call it PACHeD for shortening and if you would can you please describe your symptoms when you got sick from the insect spray?

thanks so much franny. i felt weird and out of line to even bring this up because i don't know what i am talking about. this is a perfect example of everything i have been saying, and now i know it's just another day of what leads me to do so many things......can you think of anything else that made you sick along with insect repellant? how long did you feel sick at each exposure?

has anyone else had this kind of experience? franny i hope you can ask other family members. do any of them have conditions like pd?

i'm off to see my grandson's teacher. here's an important question and i just thought of it moving sequentially in thought about this.

Do you or have you ever taken an anticholinergic for pd. Logically, it might make you feel better because they help to regulate acetlycholine. this would include artane, cogentin, and there is another oommon one. also nortriptyline, which works on pain and depression. if so can you tell if it helped your pd symptoms?



thanks monstrously much,
paula

Paula,

Not sure how reliable this info (site has a clear agenda) is but ran across a link between patients having been given articaine during a dental procedure, and if they had a pseudocholinesterase deficiency ending up with Parkinsonism!

http://www.sciential.net/dcforum/DCForumID1/374.html

Laura

thanks for that link laura. It's disturbing that this condition can be so serious and yet people are just haphazardly discovering they have it. sounds like something we all should know about before we go to the dentist or have surgery.

paula