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07-06-2009, 07:24 AM | #1 | |||
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In Remembrance
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Now, this is interesting... It is also interesting that no mention of a possible new approach occurred to him/her:
1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1992;107(2-3):203-10. Pavlovian conditioning of L-dopa induced movement. Carey RJ. Research and Development Service, VA Medical Center, NY 0298-4799. Using the unilateral 6-hydroxydopamine (6-OHDA) substantia nigra pars compacta (SNC) lesion rat model and a Pavlovian conditioning protocol, the present investigation determined that the contralateral rotation response induced by the antiparkinsonian dopaminergic drug L-dopa can become conditioned to exteroceptive test environment stimuli. Two non-drug conditioning tests indicated that contralateral rotation was elicited by the test environment without the presence of L-dopa. This conditioned response had a rotation diameter profile that was qualitatively the same as the L-dopa induced contralateral rotation response. Additionally, drug tests with the combined dopaminergic receptor antagonists, SCH 23390 (0.1 mg/kg) and haloperidol (0.5 mg/kg), at doses sufficient to block spontaneous behavior and L-dopa (20 mg/kg)-induced rotation, revealed that the conditioned contralateral rotation response, unlike L-dopa-induced contralateral rotation, is not affected by D1/D2 receptor blockade. Thus, the conditioned stimuli of the test environment can elicit the contralateral rotation response even in animals rendered akinetic by D1/D2 antagonists. This activation of a conditioned dopaminergic drug response by the situational stimuli, independent of dopaminergic mechanisms, may, therefore, contribute to the untoward overstimulation clinical effects of L-dopa through summation of conditioned and drug-induced effects. Furthermore, the use of conditioning procedures to elicit movement in akinetic animals may provide a new research methodology to investigate the phenomenon of paradoxical kinesia. PMID: 1615121 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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07-07-2009, 06:33 AM | #2 | ||
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Senior Member
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rick, this caught my eye as i will soon go on conductive education training for pwps, don't know of anywhere else other than my city where this is available. in essence it is re-educating responses making new neural pathways. better known of course from peto institute in europe which deals mainly with cerebral palsy patients. don't understand all of article, but thought it related in some way to practical application in conductive education. will of course report back once am started
lindy |
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07-07-2009, 12:51 PM | #3 | ||
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Member
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Rick -
Could you rephrase what you posted in simpler language? Ann |
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07-07-2009, 06:45 PM | #4 | |||
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In Remembrance
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OK, but someone correct me as needed.
They took a rat and gave him enough Ldopa to elicit a particular behavior. At the same time, they, for example, played Mozart. After a time, they just played Mozart without the Ldopa. The rat acted as though he had received it, even though he had not. But it wasn't that they had tricked him into making more dopamine, because they used an antagonist which would have blocked it. The rat still acted as though he had been given Ldopa. In personal terms, if we associate a particular piece of music, or scent, or any stimulus, with every time we take a sinemet tablet, eventually just the scent etc. may have the effect without the tablet. By coincidence, a few days before I ran across that study, my wife, who is as bad as I am, had insisted on putting an Altoid peppermint in each bottle of pills with the same idea in mind. So now, each time I take a tablet I will get a whiff of peppermint. In theory, eventually I will be able to take just an Altoid and get a similar effect. Will it work? I don't know, but it did for the rat. What it really means is that there is a heck of a lot we don't know and a lot of possibilities.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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07-08-2009, 09:49 AM | #5 | ||
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Junior Member
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At last, Rick, you arrive to the right level to work upon........
"Keep them focused upon chemistry, you will keep them in dependance" could have been or has or is still a good strategy, no? A lot to think and behave! Anne |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | paula_w (07-08-2009) |
07-08-2009, 10:17 AM | #6 | |||
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Senior Member
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Isn't this just another way to talk about the placebo response?
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Carey “Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputation and social standing, never can bring about a reform. Those who are really in earnest must be willing to be anything or nothing in the world’s estimation, and publicly and privately, in season and out, avow their sympathy with despised and persecuted ideas and their advocates, and bear the consequences.” — Susan B. Anthony |
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07-08-2009, 01:28 PM | #7 | ||
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In Remembrance
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I went to a wedding where there is a road called Gravity Hill. Your car backs up the hill. Water flows up. A ball rolls up the hill. There is another one nearby. No one can explain it. The magnetic force is so powerful, how could we even think that we can figure out the human body, without patient emotions and expectations?
Current thinking is pavlov training us to chemicals; it obviously isn't the answer. paula
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paula "Time is not neutral for those who have pd or for those who will get it." |
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07-19-2010, 12:53 PM | #8 | |||
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Member
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Quote:
Thanks, Robert
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_________________________________________________ http://calipso-pd.org ...bringing a new wave of Parkinson’s support to central Illinois |
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07-19-2010, 03:11 PM | #9 | |||
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In Remembrance
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I'm afraid it fell by the wayside for now. If anyone wants to take it up- The lag from altoid to dopamine is too long. Try the oil just as the first med rush of the day washes over you.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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07-19-2010, 03:25 PM | #10 | |||
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Member
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...that's a great description. I usually feel some subtle changes in my thoughts, then my ankle relaxes, then it washes over. Ahh, to feel normal again.
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_________________________________________________ http://calipso-pd.org ...bringing a new wave of Parkinson’s support to central Illinois |
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