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#1 | ||
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Junior Member
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Has anyone seen this? Comments and advice would be gratefully received:
http://natmednews.posterous.com/faec...s-of-parkinson Also you can do a Google Search using the term "faecal transplant" for more surprises Kenki |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | Aunt Bean (02-15-2011) |
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#2 | ||
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Senior Member
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Thanks for raising this.
I thought the article in New Scientist was important. So, I was suprised to get no response when I posted on the issue two weeks ago. IF (and I repeat IF) the cause of PD is toxins produced by an individual's specific gut micro-flora, then changing this offers, at the least, the possibility of a decrease in the rate of progression. As a partial measure it might reduce constipation. Given the number of dopaminergic neurones in the gut and the connection between the enteric nervous system and the brain, the hypothesis would explain both the motor and non-motor symptoms of PD and the progression of symptoms (Braak). Unfortunately, I could find little in the literature to add to that in the article. A less radical approach would be to try to alter one's gut micro-flora by diet. Is this possible? As a simple test I've tried drinking a litre of homemade probiotic yogurt a day for a week, but I've found no difference in symptoms. Are there more direct tests to detect changes that you can do at home (e.g. microscope)? John |
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#3 | ||
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Junior Member
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Quote:
See http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Faecal_bacteriotherapy Thanks John Kenki It would only be worth considering if you had no bacteroides........ |
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#4 | ||
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Senior Member
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Perhaps it also answers some questions on the increase in people with PD, including the younger people. Perhaps the overuse of antibiotics has contributed to this...
An interesting study, but perhaps it touches on some taboos that people are unwilling to discuss? Maybe one reason why no responses....... Lindy |
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#5 | |||
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In Remembrance
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"Many religious people believe the feacus to have a soul and US tax dollars will not be spent upon their destruction.......? What?? Oh. Never mind.... " Roseanne Roseanna Danna
![]() OK, I'll be serious. This is an interesting way to account for the anecdotes of symptoms disappearing within days of starting an antibiotic only to return upon cessation. It also provides an alternative look at the work of Dobbs and others which shows an improvement in PD upon the eradication of H pylori. It may not be the HP at all. There are some pretty powerful probiotics out there. Jarrow makes a particularly strong one. I wonder if just introducing known beneficial microbes would have effect....? -Rick Quote:
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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#6 | ||
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Senior Member
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Quote:
I'm curious about the probiotics but am guessing that they would not have any noticeable effect unless h pylori had been eradicated first? |
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#7 | |||
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Senior Member
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Could it possibly be that the constipation produces toxins in the gut that consist of a small enough molecule to be absorbed through the blood brain barrier???? Or maybe just some people have this deficiency of either the BBB or the gut.
I do hope this is given a lot more thought! Does anyone know of other neurological syndromes caused by malabsorption? Peggy |
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#8 | ||
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Member
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At first read i thought this to be "pseudoscience", but when i read on, i can see that there maybe merit to all this. Last year, i forget what issue, "Science" had a publication that begged the question " why are we all about 20-30% (?, i forget the quote given), "foreign" (actually commensal) organisms?. With all the recent press that microbes and disease are getting, i am almost sure that some researchers are on to something, but personaly haven' t a clue.
Peg's statement congealed it for me a bit. What if a normally symbiotic bacterium has been "forced" to alter things in it's own genome to survive the onslaught of antibiotics, which are everywhere, even tainting our so called "drinking water". Now what if one of these microbes, "built" a heretofore "unneccessary" enzyme which hydroxylates dopamine specifically at the 6 position of the aryl ring? Maybe as a defense against some other pathogenic bacterium, who almost totally repopulates the gut after it's weaker, beneficial, non-harmful brethren have been killed off after a particularly high dose or long time use of one of our tough to metabolize antibiotics? Then we would have 6-hydroxydopamine, one of the most powerful Parkinsons CAUSING, SMALL MOLECULES KNOWN??? Or, what if one of the "newcomers" for some unknown reason produces an MPTP neurotoxin of some kind (small molecule, not "dumped", but reabsorbed), do to bowel changes?? cs |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | Thelma (03-12-2013) |
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#9 | ||
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Member
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I will have to try a "stronger" probiotic. I have a particularly "backed up inventory"
![]() I have a serious question for my fellow PWP. How many of you get "night terrors, and night sweats"? I think this may be the first signs of a Psychosis. They really scare the sweat out of me, now if they scared the schisse out of me, i'd say "bring em on" ![]() ![]() |
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#10 | |||
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In Remembrance
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The French company "Danone" (as in "Dannon Yogurt") has an excellent research program on this and has a very good collection of monographs available. I am going to attach a PDF on probiotics but will quote some as well-
"As probiotics affect the composition of the intestinal flora, they can also affect its function. Several possible mechanisms have been suggested that could account for the effect of probiotics on intestinal disorders and diarrhea, notably the produc- tion by some lactic bacteria of antimicrobial sub- stances (hydrogen peroxide, bacteriocins and organic acids for example) which have a damaging effect on the growth of pathogens, and modulate the function of the immune system. The probiotics could influence the ability of the flora to hydrolyze the glucose bonds; this ability has a limi- ting effect, for instance, on the uptake of the isoflavones of soy (87). Some lactic bacteria are able to reduce the activity of some enzymes of the flora, such as ß-glucuronidase, ß-glucosidase, azoreductase and nitroreductase, which are responsible for con- verting procarcinogenic substances into carcinogens. This has been demonstrated in animal species and in Man (71;72;88)." Darn it! The meager file sizes permitted here are so small that it won't let me post it. If anyone wants it, PM me.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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