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Here is the link Science or Science Fiction

[This message has been edited by michael7733 (edited January 26, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by michael7733 (edited January 31, 2001).]

Interesting bit of dystopian science fiction. But what does this have to do with the reality of embryonic stem cell research?

I think the relevancy is quite clear...of ccourse I could be wrong...I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong many more times in my life. It gives basically the same information that several previous posts gave, but in a different manner. Perhaps I should go back and spend another 3 hours reading everything again to be sure.

michael b.

I'm still not clear... are you intimating that allowing federal funding for ESCR will lead to fetus labs where experimental humans are grown in jars???

If that's the case, I could just as easily write a shock story about the horrors of "electricity" or "computers" or "the internal combustion engine" or "penecillin" or "open heart surgery" or "deep brain stimulation" or any OTHER advance in human knowledge and science.

We can argue all we want - ANY chronic illness (whether it results in death - or we know the cause - or how disabling) is serious. It seriously deteriorates the quality of life that one should have.

If you want to pick this article apart for which disease is worse, whether or not to support stem cell research, or whatever, you can - but don't miss the point that was intended. It's the story of how Parkinson's has no socioeconomic, gender or race barriers. It's about knowing what's ahead if we don't find a cure or at least a way to slow this train down.

It's well written and ever so close too home.

Peggy

PS just for the record, I am a pro-life Bible belt evangelical who prayed and did lots of research, but I fully support the present propoosed legislation (S 3 Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007). I'll gladly discuss my views via private message or offline.

That means that it is up to the reader to differentiate the fact from the fiction. If any part of the story, though not true at the present, could in the future become a possibility, then perhaps, that possibility should be scrutinized as well as the present facts.

michael b.

Sure. We could nitpick and ponder and worry and freeze ourselves into a state of perpetual fear over all kinds of silly things, and then NO research gets done. But hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

Thank goodness the people who developed the country's electric grid weren't paralyzed by fear and superstition. Same goes for the scientists who came up with transplant technology. And practically every other great scientific advance.

"To begin, let me say that stem cell research covers a lot of territory, and many methods or techniques are incorporated in pursuing an understanding of ontogeny.
I am not against stem cell research. I find it fascinating. I am, however, against the use of fetal tissue as a methodology of obtaining the stem cells for research.
Satan is usually subtle in the approach he uses to kill, steal and destroy, and man has proven himself to be no match against satan's subtleties. There was only one rule or guideline issued to man in the garden, and he ignored all of God's wonderful gifts in order to have what was not yet given to him. He showed his greed and desire to make his own rules there, and in the thousands of years of his existence, he has not gotten any better.

Without the rule of God in our lives, we are no different. Man would have already ended his own existence if not for God's presence. Should we assume that man will obey the guidelines established by other men concerning stem cell research any better than he obeyed God's rules? I don't think so. Two old sayings apply here: 1)Give him an inch, and he'll take a mile, and 2) Give him enough rope, and he'll hang himself.

Eventually, stem cell research will lead to cloning. First it will be just human cells, tissues and then organs. What will come later will be "complete" replicas of humans. I put complete in quotation marks, because I do not believe that the human soul can be duplicated by man. If my assumption is correct, then what will be produced? I will leave that one to your imagination.

During all of this emerges the aspect of cloning for monetary gain. What has man withheld from himself when it comes to monetary gain. He has broken every law in the book. Let's just take speed limits as an example. Whether the speed limit is 10 mph or 100 mph, man will exceed it and justify his excess by saying, "Oh the law allows us 5 mph to play with."

So, what am I saying? Although I am not against stem cell research in itself, I am aware of what devastation it will eventually bring. It will become another tower of Babel. Man, in his arrogance will play god, and he will eventually make man in his own image, but what about the living soul that comes from the breath of God?

It is my opinion that the best thing that man can do for himself is to look at cell ontogeny and come to the conclusion that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. We are the design of One Creator, and we are not Him. The beginning of wisdom is to fear God. We would all be better off if, instead of spending so much time and money trying to fix mankind that we have broken, we should begin to spend more time and money seeking ways not to break any more. God designed our bodies to heal themselves. No, I'm not saying that we should not try to cure man's diseases. Of course we should, but I think that we should choose other alternatives.

So, even though I am not against using stem cell research to understand the awesomeness of God's creation, I am against what it will lead to. I am doubly against the use of fetal tissue to carry on this research. With all of that said, I simply cannot and will not endorse stem cell research. However, it will happen with or without my endorsement.

In this forum, I have now stated my opinion on this subject as much as I care to. I won't even offer my opinion any more concerning the issue. I know that I said that one other time, but this time I'll try my best to say no more concerning this subject. It would just be a waste of time. I'll continue to try to offer peace and hope and God's love instead. Laughter goes a long way, too."

michael

I appreciate your comments, Michael. Sincerely.

You express your opinion very well. But it's opinion. Not fact.

For instance, your claim that mankind would have been destroyed long ago without God's presence. I submit that more people have been killed because of religion than any other reason.

But that's a different argument for a different forum on a different day.

However ... as do most who point to their interpretation of "God's word" in this argument ... you seem to think that your view of religion should be the law of the land as far as medical research is concerned.

I believe in a just and loving God. And I believe God imbues us with wisdom and knowledge.

And, like I told Vicky, in my ever-so-humble opinion, Satan dances with delight when we suffer, and would love nothing BETTER than for us to continue suffering this affliction when the cure might just be a couple years of research away.

Where we part company is here... you seem to believe blastocysts are "babies." I say they are not. Best medical evidence says they are not.

And again, the question remains...

If you're against ESCR, why are you not ALSO vigorously combatting IVF?

A brave post. I haven`t to date said which way I would go.
HOWEVER...
this might be fiction...but if this is what it takes in order for me to be healthy,then no....emphatically no...I would rather cut my own leg off and experiment on that.A baby farm,for spares....uh uh....does not sit comfortably with me.

Having said that I still back scientific research performed within ethical ground rules. And still hold true to my belief that those ethics should be evident in all of us,regardless of colour or creed.

I guess we ALL need ALL the information.Every tiny little bit of information... No stone unturned.

Thank you again Michael,for this .