Parkinson's Disease Tulip


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Old 07-26-2011, 08:16 PM #11
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Default Waw

JUST WAW. That is the very best that I have ever read, not about how to live with PD but just how to live. Thank you Bob.
Imad


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dawson View Post
Well, I will avoid joining the debate about Peg being 'just a bit" strange.

\But what you are doing is in line with part of the Continuum method that I use several times a day - not the only weapon I use, but it is the only weapon I use every time I have what I call a "spastic attack" - in pain, sometimes writhing on floor, contorted, muscles pulling to crush me, almost completely unable to walk, speech slurred; sometimes near panic:

Lie down, let the pain rage for 10 minutes but I listen to it, I listen to what my body is doing, the muscles that are grabbing, the legs and hands shaking, and I sort of remain silent, non-judgmental, and just say "Well here you are again."

Then, for 20 minutes or however long it takes, I breathe deeply in, pausing just slightly at the top and bottom of each breath, and I place both hands on my head, (and after 3 or 4 breaths, move my hands over my eyes, then onto my chest, and often the abdomen, where there is often pain) AND when I exhale I make a sound all the time I exhale, such as eeeeee or ooooooooooo, or like a snake: ttthhhhhhhhhhh and so I breathe deeply and slowly 10 or 20 or 30 times AND THEN i relax with my eyes closed and i think of nothing - they call it Open Attention - i listen to my body and to myself and to the planet turning - listening, feeling and paying non-judgmental, non-critical attention - and over the months i start to become much more aware of just exactly my muscles are doing, for example, and I do that again and again until I feel really better OR the store whose floor i am lying on call 911 - better done at someone's home; but not always have that choice. Park benches are good because no one will look at you if they think you are just homeless. There is more to this method than breathing and sounding, of course, but I use the very basics of it in battle to fight the pain, the incapacitation, the Beast, to REGAIN CONTROL of my body and myself. This method has been used by dancers - Linda Rabin is a dancer and has trained dancers for 40 year and she trained me for an hour and a half a week for a year; note that she has nothing to do with Parkinson's; she is in the dance world; what she teaches me was never designed to deal with Parkinson's which to me is a good sign.

Dancers know about body movement, and how it is hot-wired to your psyche and you cannot fake it, and a dancer cannot go out on stage and have a movement disorder; their artform is perfection of movement control, the mind and the soul and the persona giving instructions to the body.

I am not using it to dance, i am using it to take action, to get in close with my physical self, below words, below intellect, below concept - and yes, also below emotion - right down to the wordless, primitive, sensations of the body.

And i also do exercise that resembles a bit what this thread is about:
When I am not in pain, when I can move freely, I exercise beyond my limits so that I have to sit down and puff and pant to recover. I have to do this almost every day for 2 or 3 months until i really notice as big difference. '

Now don't tell my neuro about this because he worries enough already: what works best for me is cutting down trees, chopping the wood, and stacking it. The chopping especially is very powerful. And I have FOUR chain saws.
But I must push myself to where I am puffing and panting. Less does not work. it is not so much the work, it is the panting and puffing.

None of the above gives me a longer life. But the difference in life quality is excellent. I suffer every day, and it gets really bad. But then it is not unusual that i have hours where i feel better about myself and about the universe than i ever did before i got PD.

AND I also use music, dance, acting (street theatre where no one knows they are now in the play I am making up as I speak to them); and whatever else i can grab hold of to fight the sabre-tooth tiger who sees me as cat food.

AND here's the kicker - everybody figures, hey, an hour every Thursday night in the church basement making movements to music with 40 other people - YES that is a good start. But I heard of Alex Kerten saying: You are training for the fight of your life, you are going to be in the Olympics and you are going to play solo piano at Carnegie Hall.
An hour a week to get ready? Hahahaha! You are not serious. FOUR HOURS A DAY
Alex was as combat engineer, doing things like building bridges while under enemy fire. Same thing as PD - building bridges under fire.
As you were, soldiers.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:25 PM #12
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Yes, forced exercize works...I'm living proof. I about beat myself to death in the garden most days and yet I live....I grow stronger month by month as far as stamina, balance, PD symptoms are hardly there. Sunshine seems to help so much too....on days when I can't get out because of thunder storms & lightning lately....I don't feel near as well. Used to get up in the morning hardly able to move and in quite a bit of pain...now pain level is low and several minutes of stretching and I can move freely again (of course I am still taking the fava tincture and the dried fermented papaya too...I don't think I'd be gardening without them.................God is good. So thankful for my little mattock (my right arm) We are constant companions in this fight to beat PD...it's also my weed wacker, raised bed maker, potato digger, ditch maker. Everybody should own one!
Exercize past your limit and your limit will exceed previous expectations!!! God Bless
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:55 AM #13
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First to remind people I've been investigating forced exercise (FE) in the sense of machine initiated movements of the arms at rates (currently about 120 rpm) that I would be unable to maintain myself. This requires little exertion.

I think an update is worthwhile.

In order to see whether the gains persisted, I took a break from forced exercise (FE). When I restarted I scored higher than the average in the first two weeks of the original trial, but about 5% lower than in the final two weeks. As far as one can make any conclusions from a sample of size 1, i.e. me only, this is consistent with some medium term benefit.

I've now added a second machine of similar design, so I can exercise both arms concurrently. They are set to different frequencies, so as to keep the movements independent, a.o.t on a bicycle where the pedals move at the same rate for both legs.

It's early days, but I'm already averaging 10% higher scores than in the original trial. But, it does for me, at least, seem to come at the cost of a worse tremor.

My next step will be to add more concurrency: perhaps bicycle like FE, perhaps a vibration plate, perhaps a TENS machine.

As a way of thinking about what is going on, the following example resonates with me: take a battery powered drill, switch it on, the spindle will turn and the battery will drain; alternatively run the system in reverse, turning the spindle will recharge the battery. Is there a biological equivalent with FE and dopamine?

I'm encouraged that (my thanks to Conductor71 and aquario in a different thread for pointing to the NY Times article)

"Dr. Alberts suspects that in Parkinson’s patients, the answer may be simple mathematics. More pedal strokes per minute cause more muscle contractions than fewer pedal strokes, which, in consequence, generate more nervous-system messages to the brain. There, he thinks, biochemical reactions occur in response to the messages, and the more messages, the greater the response."

John
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:05 PM #14
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Default Lacking the machine, how about push-ups?

I cycle on a stationary byke to maintain strength of my legs. I do push-ups to keep my arms strong.
I received no guidance or encouragement to exercise from the numerous neuros I have seen.
But I was encouraged to exercise by a relative who had PD 7 years before me.
I started exercising from day one and I increased the rate over 5 years and up to now.
I cannot say objectively that exercise had any impact on the progress of the disease but to me, exercise has it's immediate rewards by giving a feeling of liveliness and joy.
Imad
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:27 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imark3000 View Post
I cycle on a stationary byke to maintain strength of my legs. I do push-ups to keep my arms strong.
I received no guidance or encouragement to exercise from the numerous neuros I have seen.
But I was encouraged to exercise by a relative who had PD 7 years before me.
I started exercising from day one and I increased the rate over 5 years and up to now.
I cannot say objectively that exercise had any impact on the progress of the disease but to me, exercise has it's immediate rewards by giving a feeling of liveliness and joy.
Imad
HI Imad,

even tho you may not see the direct relation from exercise to symptoms, it will be what saves you if you should have a fall or other accident or condition that requires much from your body.

It'a the only thing that can strenthen you at the same time PD weakens you.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:19 AM #16
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As I'm using the term, I don't see forced exercise being used instead of "normal" exercise, but as an addition to it. Exercise, especially where varied, seems very sensible to me.

It may turn out that FE is most appropriate in situations where the limiting factor is dopamine (rather than normal body fitness). For instance, finger taps rather than running.

The key questions are:
- does FE lead to more dopamine in the brain?
- does FE of a finger, say, have a localized effect, to those areas dealing with finger movement?
- is there enough neuroplasticity to change the dopamine economy?

John
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Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:56 PM #17
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In a recently published paper Outubuddin et al. report [1]:

"Objective. The concept of forced exercise has drawn attention for the treatment of Parkinson’s disease symptoms with anecdotal reports of success. This study sought to ascertain any significant effect of forced exercise using a motorized stationary bicycle when compared to controls on Parkinson’s disease symptoms in a blinded, randomized, and controlled setting. Setting. Parkinson’s disease outpatient clinic, Veterans Administration Medical Center. Method. We assessed 23 patients (13 experimental and 10 controls) ... after participation in eight weeks of twice weekly forced exercise or eight weeks of conventional clinic care, and then after a three-month period had elapsed. ... Results did not demonstrate any main effect differences between the exercise and control groups on any measure at any point in time. A within subjects effect was demonstrated for the forced exercise group on overall UPDRS-III scores at the three-month end point. No other within group effects were noted. Results suggest that early enthusiasm for forced exercise may need tempering. Limitations of the study are discussed as well as numerous logistical challenges to this type of study."

Reading the whole paper gives IMHO a more positive take: some key measures improved, but not by enough to show statistical significance given the small sample size.

The paper describes forced exercise of the legs. I notice that, although they did not use it, their machine could force exercise the arms.

Reference

[1] "Parkinson’s Disease and Forced Exercise: A Preliminary Study"
Abu Outubuddin,1,2,3 Timothy Reis,1,2 Raed Alramadhani,1 David X. Cifu,1,2 Alan Towne,1,3 and William Carne1,2
Rehabilitation Research and Practice
Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 375267, 5 pages
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/rerp/2013/375267/

John
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Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:21 PM #18
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I just read the article referenced above and am curious about a number of things:

1. if the authors were attempting to replicate the FE studies done by Dr. Alberts, why did they not have the patients ride three hours a week at the protocol of 10 minutes warm-up, 40 minutes at cadence and 10 minutes cool down?

2. why did they use a Theracycle when it does not replicate the algorithm that is necessary for mitigation of the disease?
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:00 AM #19
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Default theracycle sure thinks their product helps

they seem to be making a large effort tauting their product for pd.

it is odd they reported a delayed benefit when comparing a patient to themselves before and after the exercise. other studies with treadmills, weight training, tai chi, dancing, have shown a statistical benefit.

so i'm not going to buy a theracycle!
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