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01-23-2012, 11:42 PM | #11 | ||
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It's interesting that the frequency used by aquario is typical of that in PD. (To find your tremor frequency, if you've got a laptop with a pressure pad, you can use a program I wrote at:
http://www.parkinsonsmeasurement.org/toolBox/tremor.htm Unfortunately, it is not sensitive enough to detect small tremors.) Was this choice of frequency just coincidence or was it a direct attempt at cancellation? I've played with TENS machines, but have not had good results. However, a TENS machine with direct phase and frequency control might be better. Better still is aquario's noise cancelling-like idea: TENS plus accelerometer? As far as PD is concerned, I see potential therapies based on vibration, electrical stimulation of the skin, metronome, music, forced exercise as all related in that they may change the body's "clock speed". I use the word "potential" because the evidence supporting some of them is limited. John
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Born 1955. Diagnosed PD 2005. Meds 2010-Nov 2016: Stalevo(75 mg) x 4, ropinirole xl 16 mg, rasagiline 1 mg Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg |
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01-24-2012, 08:39 PM | #12 | ||
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<<Was this choice of frequency just coincidence or was it a direct attempt at cancellation?>>
Totally coincidental, though I had first thought about phase cancellation a few years and talked with a fellow pd pal who is also an audio engineer by trade. Your suggestion of "potential therapies based on vibration, electrical stimulation of the skin, metronome, music" is intriguing. I'm a musician/composer and as a percussionist I still accompany dance classes regularly -- though with limited use of my left arm. I work with another drummer who capably covers the areas where I have diminished usage. Now you have me thinking to set up a metronome at 60 beats per minute and play along subdividing each beat into 16th notes (4 strokes per second) and see what effect that has on the tremor. I'll let you know if anything comes of it. I can already imagine the resultant pd band called Shaky Jake and the White Rats -- wearing lab coats and electro stims . . . . Jon |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | moondaughter (01-26-2012) |
01-25-2012, 04:47 PM | #13 | ||
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Thank you Jon for sharing your interesting experience and insight.
I very strongly believe that one of the most promising PD therapies of the future will be through the use of low level, low frequency alternating electrical stimulation of the peripheral nervous system using skin planted electrodes. I recall that research in this area has been reported on this forum. However, I am concerned that the huge success of DBS has created a multi-million (or billion?) industry that may try to hamper any progress in non invasive similar therapy. Just a thought . Imad Quote:
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Imad Born in 1943. Diagnosed with PD in 2006. |
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01-25-2012, 06:32 PM | #14 | |||
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In Remembrance
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I have had some success using binaural beat technology and a frequency of six Hz. There are several freeware and shareware generator programs available. I use one called "Brain Wave Generator". It is shareware and the save function is disabled, so I play it into a recorder ("Audacity"). I found the six Hz band by just starting at ten Hz and sweeping down to zero over a 20 or 30 minute period waiting for something to "feel" right.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000. Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well. |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | moondaughter (01-26-2012) |
02-12-2012, 09:02 PM | #15 | ||
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Junior Member
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Hi there,
Thanks for your response about brainwave. What exactly do you do with it? SC Quote:
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02-21-2012, 12:34 PM | #16 | ||
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Senior Member
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Rick, to whom my thanks, mentioned "binaural beat technology". I thought I'd take a look at it.
Wikipedia [1] gives an example of a binaural beat as: "if 300 Hz was played in one ear and 310 in the other, then the binaural beat would have a frequency of 10 Hz" Interestingly, there is claimed [1] to be a connection with Parkinson's: "Oster found that a number of his subjects that could not perceive binaural beats, suffered from Parkinson's disease. In one particular case, Oster was able to follow the subject through a week-long treatment of Parkinson's disease; at the outset the patient could not perceive binaural beats; but by the end of the week of treatment, the patient was able to hear them." You can create your own binaural beats using a program called Audacity. (My thanks again to Rick for introducing me to this software.) It must be the best free software ever. It can be downloaded from [2]. Amongst many other things, it allows you to precisely define sound tracks with pure tones. You can have different tracks playing in each ear. Files can be saved in wav format or with an add on, also free, saved in mp3 format. I've not been able to create anything better than [3]. To see what effect it had on me, I put it to the test using the side to side tap test measuring tool at [4]. The tests were run 2 hours after the last med, when I was as near to "on" as I ever get. I tested with silence, A, and binaural sound from [3], B, played through headphones. Each sub test involved 30 seconds using the left hand and followed immediately with 30 seconds using the right hand. The two scores (high is good) were combined into one. The order of testing was A, B, B, A, A, B, B, A ... for a total of 8 of each (in two batches of 4 of each, separated by 10 minutes). The following scores were obtained (high is good): A B 28.78 28.02 27.28 28.68 29.77 32.81 30.12 30.02 30.69 30.27 27.28 30.89 30.76 30.48 31.68 32.34 I would have expected the scores to get lower as dopamine was burnt. This did not happen. Perhaps the learning advantage was at least as big. But that too is surprising given that I have run this test so many times. What did get increasingly worse was my tremor. What has been learnt? The technology is there. Eye balling the figures, I can't see any obvious difference between the silent scores and the binaural ones. What next? Play with the binaural parameters to see if they can be more effective. Use Audacity output to generate solid vibrations and electrical stimulation. I'll be interested in hearing the experience of others. References: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats [2] http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ [3] HealingBeats.com Sample, http://healingbeats.com/ [4] http://www.parkinsonsmeasurement.org...eToSideTap.htm John
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Born 1955. Diagnosed PD 2005. Meds 2010-Nov 2016: Stalevo(75 mg) x 4, ropinirole xl 16 mg, rasagiline 1 mg Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg |
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02-21-2012, 11:56 PM | #17 | ||
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Member
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As a professional musician, I will say that when I am playing the piano, my PD is a bit more controlled. But as far as vibrational or frequency treatment...I posted a while back on this subject. I own thousands of dollars worth of frequency equipment and have been disappointed in its effectiveness for PD. It works for other ailments but not much help for my PD. However in fairness, it may work for others. I just always cringe when so much money is spent from the coffers of people who certainly need their savings.
But... I do want to recommend a very honest guy in the land down under. He has some interesting ideas and software, very reasonably priced and in my opinion, just as good as the expensive stuff. He is also quite responsive to questions: Ken Uzzell http://heal-me.com.au |
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02-23-2012, 07:40 PM | #18 | ||
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Member
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Quote:
I too play piano and other keyboard instruments and have noticed the same thing. It's either because of the rhthymically-controlled movements or because the music/sound is vibrating our hands, I don't know which. I do know that I still have trouble crossing hands and moving quickly though. John
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02-24-2012, 01:41 AM | #19 | ||
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Senior Member
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A report [1] by researchers at Rush University is interesting.
(I can't find a date or publication details.) "The 19th century neurologist, J-M Charcot, used a vibration chair for PD based on patient reports of symptom improvements after train or carriage rides." My first posting to this thread mentioned the train connection. The patients were split into two groups: the vibration group who sat in a vibrating chair and listened to music; the no vibration group who just listened to music. After 4 weeks of 30 minutes per day treatment: "There was a significant improvement in MDS-UPDRS Part III (Motor scale) score for both the vibration and the no vibration treatment groups following daily 30-minute treatments for four weeks (F[1,18] = 13.78, p = 0.002). The mean improvement in the group without vibration was 3.6 points, (SD 4.03) and the mean improvement in the vibration group was 5.50 points (SD 6.62). Although the mean incremental improvement was higher for the vibration group, the difference between vibration and no vibration groups was not significant (F[1,18] = 0.60, p = 0.45)." 5.5 points indicates, roughly speaking, a 15% reduction in symptoms. This is well within the placebo zone. Nevertheless, it is an area where much can be tweaked. Consider, though, madamlash's warning about high costs and a lack of effectiveness. madamlash, what frequencies were you using? [1] "Vibration Therapy for Parkinson’s Disease: Charcot’s studies revisited" Sachin S. Kapur, MD, Glenn T. Stebbins, PhD, and Christopher G. Goetz, MD http://nexneuro.com/media/pdf/Rush-P...tion-Study.pdf
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Born 1955. Diagnosed PD 2005. Meds 2010-Nov 2016: Stalevo(75 mg) x 4, ropinirole xl 16 mg, rasagiline 1 mg Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg |
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