Parkinson's Disease Tulip


advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-19-2013, 12:24 PM #1
Tupelo3 Tupelo3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 832
10 yr Member
Tupelo3 Tupelo3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 832
10 yr Member
Default ot - Cardiologists cast doubt on new statin recommendations

I know this is off topic, but many on this board have opinions on the over-use of statins. Olsen, you've probably already seen this:

Cardiologists cast doubt on new statin recommendations. Guidelines released last week don't accurately estimate who's at enough risk of heart attack or stroke to merit the drug therapy, critics say.

Some of the nation's most influential cardiologists are challenging new recommendations that would greatly expand the number of Americans taking a statin medication to reduce their chances of a heart attack or stroke
.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sc...#axzz2l73bhuiQ
Tupelo3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
soccertese (11-19-2013)

advertisement
Old 11-19-2013, 01:15 PM #2
mrsD's Avatar
mrsD mrsD is offline
Wisest Elder Ever
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 33,508
15 yr Member
mrsD mrsD is offline
Wisest Elder Ever
mrsD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 33,508
15 yr Member
Tongue

Try this video for some really sobering information about statin toxicity!

Statins are cellular toxins.... watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF_3miYtuDM

I knew this day would come.... THROW OUT THE NUMBERS....

but instead now they expand criteria to include just about everyone! The Cholesterol Wars...have begun and no one is talking about how toxic they really are! (or how useless they are for the criteria that were just fabricated by "experts")
__________________
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.-- Galileo Galilei

************************************

.
Weezie looking at petunias 8.25.2017


****************************
These forums are for mutual support and information sharing only. The forums are not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.
mrsD is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Tupelo3 (11-20-2013)
Old 11-19-2013, 02:35 PM #3
GerryW's Avatar
GerryW GerryW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 613
10 yr Member
GerryW GerryW is offline
Member
GerryW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 613
10 yr Member
Default Statins for PD?

The Life Extension Foundation advocates statins in PD for neuroprotection.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/neurolo...disease_01.htm
GerryW is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
VICTORIALOU (11-19-2013)
Old 11-19-2013, 10:15 PM #4
olsen's Avatar
olsen olsen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,860
15 yr Member
olsen olsen is offline
Senior Member
olsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,860
15 yr Member
Default new statin calculator

Thanks Tupelo and MrsD.
Noted in new evaluation of the "risk calculator": "the calculator overpredicted risk by 75 to 150 percent, depending on the population." And has there ever been randomized control trial to prove risk calculators are any good? ever?

Before it was determined the "new risk calculator" was flawed, why was there recommendation to treat people with a 7.5% 10 yr risk of a cardiovascular event anyway? That means one has a 92.5% chance of not having a cardiovascular event. And if on Crestor, an 18% chance of developing diabetes mellitus type 2.

John Abramson, et al, authored a paper published in the british medical journal noting that the real "NNT" or "number needed to treat" for 5 years was 140 for stroke or heart attack. Thus, 140 people needed to be treated for 5 years for 1 person to avoid a heart attack or stroke. And that was without a reduction in overall mortality or even serious illness. And there was an 18% incidence of side effects from statins when there existed a cardiovascular disease 10 yr risk of 20% or more. And the FDA has even included a black box warning on all statins for side effects of diabetes Mellitus type 2 and "cognitive dysfunction"--meaning dementia-like symptoms.

I am incredulous that the new guidelines will place even more individuals on statins. 50% of the committee had financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry--these individuals sustained from voting on the final recommendation because of "conflict of interest concerns". Note they did not refrain from assisting in any of the other aspects of development of the guidelines. Just the final voting. Geez, I'll buy that...no conflict there.

Disclosure in case there is a new member reading this posting--I am deeply biased against statins. for any reason except for a middle aged male who has suffered his first cardiac event and then for only the acute period following the event, like 2 weeks. Not for life. and for women and males over 70--NEVER.

I notice in the listings of suggestions for treatments in the Life extension parkinson's article, simvastatin is not there.
The study of simvastatin and treatment of PD is now 3 yrs old. Would be very interesting if there are clinical studies utilizing statins for PD. The study should be run for >5 yrs since brain cholesterol has a half life of about 5 yrs. Any deficits due to decreased brain cholesterol levels would not be picked up if the study was less than 5 yrs. My suggestion If one wants to stay current with cutting edge alternative stuff, read info from the institute of functional medicine. madelyn
__________________
In the last analysis, we see only what we are ready to see, what we have been taught to see. We eliminate and ignore everything that is not a part of our prejudices.

~ Jean-Martin Charcot


The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed. William Gibson

Last edited by olsen; 11-19-2013 at 10:47 PM.
olsen is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
lurkingforacure (11-19-2013), mrsD (11-20-2013), Tupelo3 (11-19-2013)
Old 11-19-2013, 10:25 PM #5
lurkingforacure lurkingforacure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,485
15 yr Member
lurkingforacure lurkingforacure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,485
15 yr Member
Default Nnt

Quote:
Originally Posted by olsen View Post
Thanks Tupelo and MrsD.
Noted in new evaluation of the "risk calculator": "the calculator overpredicted risk by 75 to 150 percent, depending on the population." And has there ever been randomized control trial to prove risk calculators are any good? ever?

Before it was determined the "new risk calculator" was flawed, why was there recommendation to treat people with a 7.5% 10 yr risk of a cardiovascular event anyway? That means one has a 92.5% chance of not having a cardiovascular event. And if on Crestor, an 18% chance of developing diabetes mellitus type 2.

John Abramson, et al, authored a paper published in the british medical journal noting that the real "NNT" or "number needed to treat" for 5 years was 140 for stroke or heart attack. Thus, 140 people needed to be treated for 5 years for 1 person to avoid a heart attack or stroke. And that was without a reduction in overall mortality or even serious illness. And there was an 18% incidence of side effects from statins when there existed a cardiovascular disease 10 yr risk of 20% or more. And the FDA has even included a black box warning on all statins for side effects of diabetes Mellitus type 2 and "cognitive dysfunction"--meaning dementia-like symptoms.

I am incredulous that the new guidelines will place even more individuals on statins. 50% of the committee had financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry--these individual sustained from voting on the final recommendation because of "conflict of interest concerns". Note they did not refrain from assisting in any of the other aspects of development of the guidelines. Just the final voting. Geez, I'll buy that...no conflict there.

Disclosure in case there is a new member reading this posting--I am deeply biased against statins. for any reason except for a middle aged male who has suffered his first cardiac event and then for only the acute period following the event, like 2 weeks. Not for life. and for women and males over 70--NEVER.

I notice in the listings of suggestions for treatments in the Life extension parkinson's article, simvastatin is not there.
The study of simvastatin and treatment of PD is now 3 yrs old. Would be very interesting if there are clinical studies utilizing statins for PD. The study should be run for >5 yrs since brain cholesterol has a half life of about 5 yrs. Any deficits due to decreased brain cholesterol levels would not be picked up if the study was less than 5 yrs. My suggestion If one wants to stay current with cutting edge alternative stuff, read info from the institute of functional medicine. madelyn
When I learned what the NNT for various procedures was, I was shocked..... including mammograms, I think the NNT for those is something like 3,000. I'll never have one again: instead I will have tomography done, where they look for hot spots which indicate cancer growth (faster cell division = hotter in that area). What a racket so much of our medical system is.

Thanks for shedding more light on this. Will the next big push be a lowering of the "normal" level for blood sugar so that more people will be classified as diabetic and pressured to take diabetes drugs? Scary.
lurkingforacure is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
lab rat (11-24-2013), Tupelo3 (11-19-2013)
Old 11-19-2013, 11:00 PM #6
Tupelo3 Tupelo3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 832
10 yr Member
Tupelo3 Tupelo3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 832
10 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olsen View Post
I am incredulous that the new guidelines will place even more individuals on statins. 50% of the committee had financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry--these individuals sustained from voting on the final recommendation because of "conflict of interest concerns". Note they did not refrain from assisting in any of the other aspects of development of the guidelines. Just the final voting. Geez, I'll buy that...no conflict there.
madelyn
Thanks for some great information, Madelyn, as usual. I felt the same way when I saw those guidelines.
Gary
Tupelo3 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 06:12 AM #7
mrsD's Avatar
mrsD mrsD is offline
Wisest Elder Ever
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 33,508
15 yr Member
mrsD mrsD is offline
Wisest Elder Ever
mrsD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 33,508
15 yr Member
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkingforacure View Post
When I learned what the NNT for various procedures was, I was shocked..... including mammograms, I think the NNT for those is something like 3,000. I'll never have one again: instead I will have tomography done, where they look for hot spots which indicate cancer growth (faster cell division = hotter in that area). What a racket so much of our medical system is.

Thanks for shedding more light on this. Will the next big push be a lowering of the "normal" level for blood sugar so that more people will be classified as diabetic and pressured to take diabetes drugs? Scary.
This is already happening! Some new studies are coming out to explain that A1C does go up with age, and does not necessarily need drug treatment.

Watch the video I put up on statin toxicity.... I am guessing that statins kill cells in the pancreas... that is what is causing the rise in diabetes.
__________________
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.-- Galileo Galilei

************************************

.
Weezie looking at petunias 8.25.2017


****************************
These forums are for mutual support and information sharing only. The forums are not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.
mrsD is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 02:22 PM #8
olsen's Avatar
olsen olsen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,860
15 yr Member
olsen olsen is offline
Senior Member
olsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,860
15 yr Member
Default Risk calculator ridiculous tool

"...a 50 yo male with the ‘optimal’ numbers, if your SBP (systolic blood pressure--the upper number)goes up to 119, there is no impact on risk. if it then goes up 1 point, from 119 to 120, your life time risk abruptly goes from 5% to 36%, an increase of 31 percentage points and an increased relative risk of ASCVD of 620%...

(again, 5o yo) male total cholesterol goes up to 179, no impact. If it then goes up 1 mg/dl, from 179 to 180, life time risk goes from 5% to 36%, an increase of 31 percentage points and an increased relative risk of ASCVD of 620%. If your total cholesterol goes up from 199 to 200, that’s another 10 percentage point increase, from 36% to 46%, an increased relative risk of 27% (from 36%)...


Whatever helps sell those statins.

http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.p...in-guidelines/
__________________
In the last analysis, we see only what we are ready to see, what we have been taught to see. We eliminate and ignore everything that is not a part of our prejudices.

~ Jean-Martin Charcot


The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed. William Gibson
olsen is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Answers from Cardiologists after hospital stay... Debbie D Multiple Sclerosis 12 03-12-2012 05:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.