[pdinfo]

As I understand it, the phenomenon of biochemical "feedback inhibition", as in Levodopa being the most inhibtor of its own natural biosynthesis (a subject covered elsewhere at lenght), when supplied from outside, as in PD, is a particular case of the general chemical principle of "LeRichelieau". Is this correct? Resident biochems called to duty on this one).

Or put in very non-technical terms, one could say that "feedback inhibition" is the same as the "use it or loose it" common sense principle, according to which, for example in the case of a muscle or muscles which are seldom used or exercised, they would tend to shrivel up.
In PD, where the natural biosynthesis of Levodopa (and therefore Dopamine) is impaired, taking exogenous Levodopa, while dramatically effective on an immediate basis, in the long run it is diabolically inhibiting of the already compromised natural biosynthesis of itself, as if the body was "saying": "well, if I am getting ready made Levodopa, why bother to make my own, more so when I am already having a hard time making the stuff to begin with", thus closing the viscious circle of a lifetime dependency on externally supplied Levodopa.

1. Is all of the above correct, or mere rationalization.?

2. Along the same line of thinking, severaal years ago, while still employed I run into two brothers in south Texas who jointly owned and managed a construction equipment sales, service and rental store which carried the line of earth diggers for which I was a factory representative, so that I will come round to visit them frequently.. Now, granted their jobs carried a fair amount of pressure, these particular ind individuals had an unusual nervous personality which had them keep in their desks'drawers an ample and ready supply of antiacids tablets. I was amazed at seing them both pop-in a tablet every hour or so, non stop throughout the working day, and I suspect that carried on at home even in their leasure time.
I mean, they were two antiacids' addicts or dependents just as much as I am Levodopa dependent.

Some years later, I was watching an infomercial (one of those "as sen on tv" ads so pervasive on american tv during the wee hours of the morning on any sleepness night) with a mock talk show format and a certain Kevin Trudeau character peddling his book "Cures they dont want you to know", where he offered the following example as a mouth wetter: "if you have excessive stomack acidity, conventional medicine will prescribe an antiacid which offers almost instant relief by the alkaline antiacid neutralizing the acid. Problem is, the stomack lining is programmed to maintain a certain acid environ to break down food , so it reacts by producing more acid which requires more antiacid, etc., which sets you into a never ending spiral, making antiacids the most sold non prescription medicine (I couldnt help flashing back to the texan brothers, which prompted me to keep watching on). He continued by saying the correct strategy against excessive stomack acid was to take a small amount of another..... acid(!? - seemengly counterintuitive)) such a common kitchen ingredient, acethic acid, commonly known as.......... vinegar, yes, vinegar, again apparently defying common sense (who wants to throw more acid on excessive acid?) . The explanation, he carried on, lied in that just as more acid production was the "programmed" response of the stomack soon after the neutralazing effect of antiacids, a sudden addion of external acid (vinegar)
inhibits the stomack's own production of hydrocloric acid, as a compensatory measure against this externally provided acid.
Sounded pretty logic to me and "explained" the ordeal of my two texan brothers, so I decided to put the theory to the test next time I run into an acid stomack. Mind you, I am a careful, health minded eater, so I do not run into many acid stomack episodes, and when I do, usually after an evening meal, I soon trace the cause to eating the wrong food or more likely the wrong combination of foods, some foodstuffs that do not agreee with me, something I know very well from erlier experiences. In the past, in such a situation, I would take the occasional antiacid (if there was any around the house but I dont normally stock) but more, antiacid or not, it is the nausea in my stomack, besides the acid reflux burning up my esophagus and throat that would not let me sleep until I induced vomit and rid myself completely of the offending matters, i.e.: my somack simply refuses to process the offenders any further and shuts down, which also gives me hell with my PD symptoms, since along everything else, my levodopa tables cannot get pass the stomack to get to their point of absortion into the blood stream, somewhere in the small bowell. Even then, the morning after would still remind me of the previous night indigestion with some leftover symptoms.of unwellness.

Therefore to test in my own body the ["fire against fire"] "acid against acid" claim, when I next run into an acid indigestion, as manifested by the acid reflux into my throat and the concomitant nausea in my stomack, I followed Mr, Trudeaux's advise and took no more than a teaspoonfull of apple cider vinegar I had bought for this purpose and.......... after the short mild burning sensation of the apple cider vinegar washing down the same inner linings of my throat and esophagus, already burned by the acid reflux, I felt prompt relief, not only of the acidity but of the nausea, not requirng vomit, followed by a restfull sleep and a morning after with no hangovers, indicating that even, previously "seemingly" impossible digestion, had taken place to my amazement. Ever weary of the placebo effect (placebo in a chemical reaction?) I have used the same remedy several times since, always effective, with only a couple of times were the nature and or quantity of the food indigestion required a second teaspoonfull of vinegar for complete relief.

I thought I offered this testimony, which albeit "anecdotal" by definition, seems plausible to me, for its similarity with the aforementioned "feedback inhibition" of inner levodopa by external one, but of course the real explanation could be an entirely different one,
Also, still weary of "sleek" infomercial salespersons, I must say I never even tried to find or buy the book by Mr. Trudeaux and indeed I later learnt that his likeness does not enjoy much reputation with the FDA, who apppears to be actively prosecuting him for making false and or medical claims with no credentials for and he is just a clever felllow who used a case that works for whatever reasons to sell a book filled with hot air, as claimed by its detractors. Who knows.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by pdinfo

As I understand it, the phenomenon of biochemical "feedback inhibition", as in Levodopa being the most inhibtor of its own natural biosynthesis (a subject covered elsewhere at lenght), when supplied from outside, as in PD, is a particular case of the general chemical principle of "LeRichelieau". Is this correct? Resident biochems called to duty on this one).

Or put in very non-technical terms, one could say that "feedback inhibition" is the same as the "use it or loose it" common sense principle, according to which, for example in the case of a muscle or muscles which are seldom used or exercised, they would tend to shrivel up.
In PD, where the natural biosynthesis of Levodopa (and therefore Dopamine) is impaired, taking exogenous Levodopa, while dramatically effective on an immediate basis, in the long run it is diabolically inhibiting of the already compromised natural biosynthesis of itself, as if the body was "saying": "well, if I am getting ready made Levodopa, why bother to make my own, more so when I am already having a hard time making the stuff to begin with", thus closing the viscious circle of a lifetime dependency on externally supplied Levodopa.

1. Is all of the above correct, or mere rationalization.?

All correct. The Nobel Prize winning study on the formation of L-dopa showed that no substance reduced somebody's ability to produce their own L-dopa than L-dopa itself. Basically, "if you take it, you won't make it". Consequently, L-dopa ends up being a major cause of the downward progression of Parkinson's Disease symptoms. Short term cure - long term cause.

Your vinegar treatment, makes use of the same principle that is used in certain medical methods - provoke just a little the very problem you want to get rid of. The body reacts against what little you do in order to try to rid the problem.

[paula_w]

Would this put PD in the same category as an autoimmune disease?

Whatever started it, is there something in the immune system that perpetuates it?

paula

[Daffy Duck]

Despite the claims sometimes made, there has never been any evidence that dopamine formation in the dopaminergic neurons is commonly affected by the function of the immune system. There are forms of Parkinsonism, including Encephalitis Lethargica and HIV/AIDS, that can cause Parkinson's Disease symptoms because of cell damage, but symptoms caused by this means are very rare.

[reverett123]

....is a reaction of the immune system's defenders in the brain (microglia). While not a true autoimmune response, it appears to be the fatal endpoint of a chain of interacting events. The defenders don't turn "off" as they shold.

Another possible factor is a immune response resulting from cross reaction and ties into Ron's BBB thoughts. The scenario is that inflammation increases the permeability of the barriers at the ut as well as the brain. This allows poorly digested protein fragments known as lectins to penetrate into the system and trigger a true immune response. Unfortunately, segments of the molecular chain forming the lectins are similar to segments making up parts of our own brains. Our immune system then attacks our brain tissues in a case of mistaken identity.

The latter contains more speculation than the former, by the way.

[lou_lou]

Originally Posted by paula_w

Would this put PD in the same category as an autoimmune disease?

Whatever started it, is there something in the immune system that perpetuates it?

paula

dear paula,
great question!
I continue asking this same question to many doctors -well known -and ordinary.

autoimmune: multiple sclerosis, well here's a the link -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mmune_diseases

our dis ease -is caused by apoptosis- cellular suicide

Why Cells Commit Suicide?

Why do cells commit apoptosis?


There seem to be two major reasons.
First, apoptosis is one means by which a developing organism shapes its tissues and organs.
For instance, a human fetus has webbed hands and feet early on its development.
Later, apoptosis removes skin cells, revealing individual fingers and toes. A fetus's eyelids form an opening by the process of apoptosis.

During metamorphosis, tadpoles lose their tails through apoptosis.

In young children, apoptosis is involved in the processes that literally shape the connections between brain cells,

and in mature females, apoptosis of cells in the uterus causes the uterine lining to slough off at each menstrual cycle.

Cells may also commit suicide in times of distress.

then you have a very wordy Pubmed article link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12666099&dopt=Abs tract

NINDS article
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_ev...proceeding.htm

I have no answers, just a whole lotta questions still!

[paula_w]

Tena,

I finally read the links about auto immune diseases....thanks, it was interesting. I heard recently, just casually, that some research had turned up something indicating immune system involvement in progression of PD.

appreciate the info,
paula

[made it up]

Your answers are interesting but I'd really like to know what Bo is?
Thanks,
Lee

[lou_lou]

Originally Posted by made it up

Your answers are interesting but I'd really like to know what Bo is?
Thanks,
Lee

Bio feedback information


http://www.answers.com/biofeedback