[reverett123]

The old brain is not as agile as it once was and I need help in understanding the concept of femtomolar concentrations of dextromethorphan. I have been reading Hong's work on it and the window of concentration is critical - too much or too little is a waste of time.

I gather that a femtomolar density approaches homeopathic concenrations, an interesting fact in itself. But as a practical matter, speaking as a 100 kg male, how much of the bleeping stuff do I take?

And, RLSmi, I understand that there is a need to time it with sleep, but if that requirement is met, is there a negative effect with a second dose in the morning? My reason for asking is control of dyskinesias.

[RLSmi]

Originally Posted by reverett123

The old brain is not as agile as it once was and I need help in understanding the concept of femtomolar concentrations of dextromethorphan. I have been reading Hong's work on it and the window of concentration is critical - too much or too little is a waste of time.

I gather that a femtomolar density approaches homeopathic concenrations, an interesting fact in itself. But as a practical matter, speaking as a 100 kg male, how much of the bleeping stuff do I take?

And, RLSmi, I understand that there is a need to time it with sleep, but if that requirement is met, is there a negative effect with a second dose in the morning? My reason for asking is control of dyskinesias.

The extremely low effective concentration of DM and other morphinans like naltrexone remains a mystery. Regarding the exact effective dose for a 100 kg person, I could only guess, based on dosage ranges recommended for naltrexone, that it would be between 4.5 and 5.5 mg. I am not aware of any effects of taking the low dose morphinans at times other than just before bedtime. Also, I have not heard of any benefit of LDN or LDDM for dyskinesia. My goal in taking the drug is slowing/arresting progression of PD symptoms.

Rick, do I remember your experiencing some serious blood pressure increase when you tried dextromethorphan some time ago? I have not looked up that exchange, but remember that it may have been associated with your having failed to take antihypertensive medication that was prescribed. Just thought I should mention that if you are thinking of trying it again.

Take care,
Robert

[Ronhutton]

Hi Rick,
You do dig up some questions!!
I am very familiar with molar concentration, which is one mole of a substance dissolved in one litre of solvent, but femtomolar, I had to look up. It is a much more dilute concentration as you can see from the following table.
Name Abbreviation Concentration
Millimolar mM 10-3 molar
Micromolar μM 10-6 molar
Nanomolar nM 10-9 molar
Picomolar pM 10-12 molar
Femtomolar fM 10-15 molar
Attomolar aM 10-18 molar
Zeptomolar zM 10-21 molar
Femtomolar is one mole of a substance dissolved in a cubic metre of solvent. The molecular weight of dextromethorphan is 370.3, so a femtomolar solution is 370.3 gms in a cubic metre of solvent.
I hope this is what you are looking for.
Like Robert, I have not seen LDN claimed to stop dyskinesia, and I have never tried LDN myself.
Good luck, and be careful.
Ron

[reverett123]

Thanks for the info. I am trying to be cautious but there are a number of powerful benefits to the dextromethorphan. I don't know if it spills over into the LDN or not, but both seem to have similar characteristics and are NMDA anatagonists. Among the claims for the dextromethorphan:
1:

Treatment with dextromethorphan improves endothelial function, inflammation and oxidative stress in male heavy smokers.

Liu PY, Lin CC, Tsai WC, Li YH, Lin LJ, Shi GY, Hong JS, Chen JH, Wu HL.

J Thromb Haemost. 2008 Oct;6(10):1685-92. Epub 2008 Jul 18.

PMID: 18647232 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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2:

3-Hydroxymorphinan, a metabolite of dextromethorphan, protects nigrostriatal pathway against MPTP-elicited damage both in vivo and in vitro.

Zhang W, Shin EJ, Wang T, Lee PH, Pang H, Wie MB, Kim WK, Kim SJ, Huang WH, Wang Y, Zhang W, Hong JS, Kim HC.

FASEB J. 2006 Dec;20(14):2496-511.

PMID: 17142799 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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3:

Femtomolar concentrations of dextromethorphan protect mesencephalic dopaminergic neurons from inflammatory damage.

Li G, Cui G, Tzeng NS, Wei SJ, Wang T, Block ML, Hong JS.

FASEB J. 2005 Apr;19(6):489-96.

PMID: 15790998 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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4:

Protective effect of dextromethorphan against endotoxic shock in mice.

Li G, Liu Y, Tzeng NS, Cui G, Block ML, Wilson B, Qin L, Wang T, Liu B, Liu J, Hong JS.

Biochem Pharmacol. 2005 Jan 15;69(2):233-40. Epub 2004 Nov 26.

PMID: 15627475 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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5:

3-hydroxymorphinan is neurotrophic to dopaminergic neurons and is also neuroprotective against LPS-induced neurotoxicity.

Zhang W, Qin L, Wang T, Wei SJ, Gao HM, Liu J, Wilson B, Liu B, Zhang W, Kim HC, Hong JS.

FASEB J. 2005 Mar;19(3):395-7. Epub 2004 Dec 13.

PMID: 15596482 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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6:

Neuroprotective effect of dextromethorphan in the MPTP Parkinson's disease model: role of NADPH oxidase.

Zhang W, Wang T, Qin L, Gao HM, Wilson B, Ali SF, Zhang W, Hong JS, Liu B.

FASEB J. 2004 Mar;18(3):589-91. Epub 2004 Jan 20.

PMID: 14734632 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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7:

Dextromethorphan protects dopaminergic neurons against inflammation-mediated degeneration through inhibition of microglial activation.

Liu Y, Qin L, Li G, Zhang W, An L, Liu B, Hong JS.

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2003 Apr;305(1):212-8.

PMID: 12649371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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