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06-25-2016, 09:10 PM | #11 | ||
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08-15-2016, 01:15 AM | #12 | ||
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Here's an article which discusses this multi ingredient dietary supplement. I found it to be quite readable.
Nutrient 'Cocktail' Delays Aging and Extends Life Span - Life Extension I noticed that the article is dated May 2012, but all the comments at the bottom of the webpage are quite recent. Maybe they deleted any older comments? The original ScienceDaily article (June 2, 2016), linked to by Blackfeather, said the following: "The next step in the research is to test the supplement on humans, likely within the next two years, and target those who are dealing with neurodegenerative diseases." Bring it on! |
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08-23-2016, 12:52 PM | #13 | ||
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Thanks for this interesting topic, Blackfeather. You started the thread in June, but something made me check again to see if a (free) fulltext might have become available in the interim. I found it here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1.../em.22019/full The formula of the multi-ingredient supplement was previously published in conjunction with this 2005 paper: A Complex Dietary Supplement Extends Longevity of Mice and the formula is listed in Table 1: A Complex Dietary Supplement Extends Longevity of Mice |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | johnt (08-23-2016) |
08-23-2016, 04:38 PM | #14 | ||
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I'm not sure that I understand the dosages for humans. I'll be grateful for your views.
Lemon et al. state [1]: "Dosages for the mice were formulated based on amounts commonly prescribed to humans. Values were adjusted for the smaller body size of the mice, then, dosages were increased by a factor of 10 based on the higher gram-specific metabolic rate (and consequently faster utilization and turnover) of mice compared to humans ... . The supplement was prepared fresh daily in liquid form, soaked onto a small piece of bagel, and allowed to dry (dry weight of supplement = 140.3 mg per mouse based on a 35 g mouse)." For a 35g mouse the dry weight of the supplement was 140.3mg. Thus, the total dose is about 1/250 of body weight per day, which seems very high. They do state that they've used a factor of 10, over and above weight, as a conversion formula for mice, but that leaves the human dose as 1/2500 of body weight per day, which still seems high. Looking at it another way, given that a typical weight for a mouse is 35g and for a human it is 70kg, the weight of a human is 2000 times that of a mouse and taking into account the species factor of 10, to get human dosages we need to multiply the Table 1 values by 200. For instance, vitamin C is shown for a mouse as 3.6mg/day, which scales to a value of 720mg/day for a human, which seems reasonable. (The NHS advice is "Taking less than 1,000mg of vitamin C supplements is unlikely to cause any harm" [2]. I presume that they mean per day.) References: [1] "A Complex Dietary Supplement Extends Longevity of Mice" Jennifer A. Lemon, Douglas R. Boreham and C. David Rollo" J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci (2005) 60 (3): 275-279. A Complex Dietary Supplement Extends Longevity of Mice [2] Vitamins and minerals - Vitamin C - NHS Choices John
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Born 1955. Diagnosed PD 2005. Meds 2010-Nov 2016: Stalevo(75 mg) x 4, ropinirole xl 16 mg, rasagiline 1 mg Current meds: Stalevo(75 mg) x 5, ropinirole xl 8 mg, rasagiline 1 mg |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | Bergamotte (08-24-2016) |
08-24-2016, 11:03 AM | #15 | ||
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John, thank you! I like your multiply-by-200 solution because it’s simple. Here are multipliers for a range of human weights. I rounded up or down to get whole numbers.
For a 50 kilo human, multiply Table 1 values by 143 For a 60 kilo human, multiply by 171 For a 70 kilo human, multiply by 200 For an 80 kilo human, multiply by 229 For a 90 kilo human, multiply by 257 If I were creating a regimen for myself based on Table 1, I would go a bit easy on the fat-soluble nutrients to avoid accumulating them to toxic levels. I would try to obtain the various nutrients in combination products, hoping to minimize my intake of fillers and excipients. This paper explains that we can ingest undesirable levels of aluminum when we take products containing excipients of magnesium stearate, talc (which can contain aluminum oxide) or microcrystalline cellulose: Drugs as a hidden source of aluminium for chronic renal patients Aluminum toxicity is mainly a concern for patients with kidney failure, but multiple studies have shown that aluminum induces neurodegeneration. In my opinion, supplements should be as aluminum-free as possible, especially if many tablets or capsules are being taken. |
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08-26-2016, 05:32 PM | #16 | |||
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Perhaps I missed it but it would be nice if McMaster U would just publish the "common ingredients" and skip the "fountain of youth" pill altogether. Just an observation.. Dr Terry Wahles has had a handle on this type of gut mitochondrial connection for a long time and she flat out tells you what you need and how to get it...Dr. Terry Wahls is a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Iowa and a staff physician at the Iowa City Veterans Affairs Hospital, where she teaches medical students and resident physicians, sees patients in traumatic brain injury and therapeutic lifestyle clinics with complex chronic health problems that often include multiple autoimmune disorders, and conducts clinical trials. Learn more about Dr. Wahls’ clinical trials and how to participate in them here.
She is also a patient with a chronic progressive neurological disorder, secondary progressive multiple sclerosis, which confined her to a tilt-recline wheelchair for four years. Minding your mitochondria | Dr. Terry Wahls | TEDxIowaCity - YouTube |
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08-26-2016, 05:41 PM | #17 | |||
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Ahhhh table 1 ! .....sounds just like Dr Wahles Protocol. But you really need a 23 and me genetic breakdown for yourself to find out if your predisposed to say...not uptake B6.....if your neurodegeneration is simply a result of inability to uptake vits and mins then you can customize your diet and avoid overdosing on vits which is just as damaging as not enough.
peace BP |
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08-26-2016, 05:44 PM | #18 | |||
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Additionally we should be getting what we need from food not supplements....then you avoid aluminum fillers etc etc.....
BP |
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08-26-2016, 05:51 PM | #19 | |||
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But I'm spoiled ...where I live ALL our food is organic and fresh and we collect it ourselves.....hunt our own meat, live off king salmon and black sea bass and berries and seaweed....and spruce tp salads and on and on and on.....0 processed foods except flour unbleached and cane sugar....for canning and the flour for occasional bread/pasta....I just caught 500 pounds of halibut for the winter along with king and sockeye 200 pounds each of those and we get 15 deer a year by license for subsistance but we only eat about 8....
I swim in omega 3s etc and am off meds and follow wahles protocol and live in the wilderness.... cheers! BP |
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"Thanks for this!" says: | Bergamotte (08-28-2016) |
08-28-2016, 01:41 PM | #20 | ||
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I totally agree that we should try to get the nutrients we need from food. But conventionally grown fruit and vegetables are progressively lower and lower in minerals. Farmers use chemical fertilizers that don't replace all the minerals that are depleted from the soil, so each successive crop is a little bit less nutritious than the one before it. Produce that is toxic with Roundup / glyphosphate carries a double whammy because, in addition to being low in nutrients, the herbicide contaminant depletes glutathione (glutathione is used to "escort" toxins out of the liver). Organic produce is usually richer in nutrients than non-organic but can be quite expensive, if you're not in a position to grow your own. For certain nutrients, it can be quite a challenge to obtain them from food. So ... supplements might be in order for some people.
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