[moondaughter]

There is now a simple way for you to make a similar form of vitamin C at home. Its full name is Liposomal Encapsulated Vitamin C. Like Lypo-Spheric C, Liposomal Encapsulated Vitamin C
taken orally is reported to be 6 to 8 times stronger, gram for gram, than vitamin C by intravenous drip .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cBp879mfgI

...I wonder if my sonic unit for cleaning my mouth guard would work for this? this guy is also researching liposomal encapsulation of glutathione.

I like simple solutions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgLzQavQzw

[sim00]

Many thanks for this very useful video.

[johnt]

Thanks for this.

Jain et al. write:

"These studies revealed that the dopamine can be effectively delivered to the brain by incorporating it into liposomes , and its degradation in circulation can also be protected. The results of liposomal formulation were found to be superior compared to plain levodopa as well as Syndopa."

Note my bold.

And in the meantime, not wishing to wait 10 years for it to come to market, I'll go back to investigating bananas, which have a high dopamine content. (See recent thread.)

[1] "Brain drug delivery system bearing dopamine hydrochloride for effective management of parkinsonism."
Jain NK, Rana AC, Jain SK.
Drug Dev Ind Pharm. 1998 Jul;24(7):671-5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9876513

John

[moondaughter]

are there too many active constituents in fava juice to just bundle it up whole iin liposome? would i be defeating the whole benefit of fava juice by extracting its parts?

please keep us posted of your findings!!
md

[paula_w]

Huh! how'd i miss that?

thanks

[johnt]

As promised I've looked at liposomal dopamine.

In addition to the paper by Jain et al. cited in my previous post, there is a more recent paper by Muthup et al. [1], which states:

"administration of dopamine in ST80 [a sufacant] modified liposomes could have considerable therapeutic effects making it to be an ideal carrier in ferrying the drug of choice direct in to the brain and thus proving a good candidate for parkinsonism treatment."

I tried to test the effect of the possible lipsomal encapsulation in the way described below. (Note the use of the words "tried" and "possible", I have no
direct way of knowing what is going on - all I can do is to prepare something in a way which I think creates liposomal dopamine and to measure the effect it has on me.)

WARNING. The point of the liposomal encapsulation is to get dopamine through the BBB. This also raises the possibility of getting contaminants through the BBB too. It is not recommended that anyone tries this approach.

I don't have access to dopamine directly. As a poor substitute I used bananas which, the skin especially, have a high dopamine content.

I used lecithin as the lipid. This is easy to get in the UK (e.g Holland and Barratt).

To not confuse the results, I went without my normal medications prior to and during the tests. So during the period of the tests any lingering effects of the drugs should have been reducing; leading to decreased scores.

My lowest score on the side-to-side tap test was 27.8 (cf a typical score for a non-PwP of 50). This was the initial test, taken after being off meds for 18.5 hours, but before taking any of the banana preparation.

My highest score was 38.75, after 47.5 hours.

This convinces me that some benefit is being derived from the mixture. However, I don't feel the way I did it offers a practical way forward. It is difficult to get through the large volume of the liposomed bananas. And worst of all was the nausea I felt.

I think what caused the nausea was the lecithin. The role of lecithin is to coat the dopamine in the banana, but it will coat all the fibre from the skin too. Thus, the majority of the lecithin is probably being wasted on covering inert material. This suggests trying to leach out the dopamine in as little water as possible, thus reducing the amount of lecithin required. I will try this soon.

As a final point, I note that the potential use of liposomes for Parkinson's is wider than just dopamine. For instance:
"Recently, one study showed the clinical application of apomorphine, a dopamine receptor agonist. The main problem of apomorphine is the instability and the need for frequent injections. This group developed apomorphine encapsulated within liposomes to protect it from degradation and enhance the permeability across the BBB. They obtained promising results; the uptake of liposomes into the brain was rapid and prolonged, targeting properly the apomorphine into the damaged brain" [2]

[b]Details[b/]

I'll give a detailed description of what I did and full results. This will allow
anyone who treads the same ground (not recommended) to combine the results in a meta-analysis.

All results are from the side-to-side, "pq", test: 30 sec on the left hand and
30 sec on the right hand. They were either done on-line at
http://www.parkinsonsmeasurement.org...eToSideTap.htm
these are identified by two decimal place values, or when I didn't have access to a working machine timed on a keyboard, these are identified by one decimal place values. High values are good.

The last drugs were taken at 1000, 27th Feb. Of the drugs I take, this will have allowed enough time for the Stalevo to clear, but not the controlled release ropinirole, or the rasagilene.

Test 1: 28th Feb. 1.5 bananas (not skin), pulped, 8 hour in soaking 500 ml of
water, (hopefully to extract the dopamine). No liposomes. Then drunk the liquor. (Note: does that mean the same in US English? I don't mean alcohol. I mean a watery solution.)
Time LH RH
0430 15.16 12.64 Then drunk the liquor.
0515 17.22 12.55
0545 16.03 13.43
0615 17.07 13.11
0645 16.05 12.94
I concluded this had no effect.

Test 2: 28th Feb. 1.5 bananas (not skin), pulped, 25 gm lecithin dissolved in
500 ml water then added to the pulp, blended, then poured in batches into an ultra-sonic cleaner for 10 minutes per batch.
Time LH RH
1227 15.5 14.3 Then drunk the watery pulp.
1312 16.5 18.0
1351 18.0 17.7
1420 18.5 19.0
1457 19.0 19.0
1550 18.4 19.0
1630 19.5 17.5
1819 19.0 17.6
2347 16.4 16.9
I concluded this had an effect on the pq scores. I also felt slightly nauseous.

Test 3: 29th Feb. As test 2 but whole organic bananas (which had had two minutes in boiling water to clean the skins), 10 gm lecithin.
2350 (28th) - 2405 Eat/drink the mixture.
2448 18.0 17.4
0608 16.0 13.5
0800 15.70 13.84
I concluded this had no effect. I think the mix was too thick for the ultra-sonic cleaner to work effectively. Again I felt nauseous.

Test 4: 29th Feb. As test 3, but 750 ml of water.
0815 - 0830 Drink the mixture.
0900 20.69 14.74
0930 21.95 16.80
1000 20.77 15.06
1030 19.70 14.45
I concluded this had an effect. Felt sicker.

Test 5: 29th Feb. As test 4, but only 2/3 helping - I just couldn't face
drinking the whole mixture.
1100 20.38 15.18
1130 20.30 15.13
1200 18.69 14.31
1230 16.72 12.63
It's unclear whether this had an effect. But I felt badly nauseous. So I stopped earlier than I had intended.

Although I was never actually sick, it took 24 hours for the nausea to clear.

References

[1] "Formulation and psychopharmacological evaluation of surfactant modified
liposome for parkinsonism disease"
Muthuprasanna Pichandy, Manisha Mishra , Suriaprabha Kanaiyan , Srinivasa Rao T , Anbu J
Asian Journal of Pharmaceutical and Clinical Research, vol 3, issue 1, Jan - Mar 2010
http://www.ajpcr.com/Vol3Issue1/262.pdf

[2] "Liposomes for Targeted Delivery of Active Agents against Neurodegenerative Diseases (Alzheimer's Disease and Parkinson's Disease"
Spuch C., Navarro C.
Journal of Drug Delivery, vol 2011 (2011).
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdd/2011/469679/

John

[moondaughter]

Update on methodology here : http://qualityliposomalc.com/styled-2/index.html

John T - I would send you some fava juice (made from fava pods w/o the bean) if you would like to experiment with making another liposomal levadopa formula....

[johnt]

A recent (2017) thread started by jeffreyn, to whom my thanks, on squalamine, references a paper by Perni et al. that states in passing that [1]:

"it is well established that phospholipid binding can accelerate fibril formation [of alpha-synuclein] ... ; moreover, it has recently been shown that such acceleration occurs through the enhancement of the initial primary nucleation step in the aggregation process".

If this is the case with the liposomes mentioned in this thread, they are best avoided.

References:

[1] "A natural product inhibits the initiation of α-synuclein
aggregation and suppresses its toxicity"
M. Parni et al.
PNAS, Dec 2016.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...86114.full.pdf

John

[moondaughter]

Wow JohnT I bow to your thoroughness! Thank you !

I seem to experience various results that appear to be cyclic including anything diet related. In Chinese and Aryuvedic medicine the seasons are heavily weighted in determining w hat herbs and foods can be supportive or not. I do not follow either strictly but I do notice that I experience repetitive patterns with the seasons. Not trying to throw more variables into your controls - or maybe I am- but not consciously.....


I did notice that taking a saltine cracker with BUTTER before taking med helped my stomach feel better and seemingly better med uptake too... for awhile. Perhaps the lipoosome vessel is better applied when accompanied with amino acids and enzymes designed by nature??Consider for example mucuna and fava bean derived medicines.

Do you have any thoughts on why supplements and dietary needs change?

Kind Regards,
MD