[johnt]

Do birds play a part in Parkinson's?

A number of posts have been made to this forum suggesting that birds may play a part in the etiology of Parkinson's. I thought it would be useful for us to have references to them in one place.

Researchers, working on mice, have shown [1] that H5N1 avian flu virus causes Parkinson's like neurological damage. There's a good discussion of this in imark3000's thread [2] from 3 years ago.

There are other pathogens carried by birds, such as TB, which have been implicated in Parkinson's.

Diseases can be carried by common birds [3] such as the starling.

Thread [4] contains references to maps showing the distribution of the European Starling in the US and to the distribution of the prevalence of PD.

The European starling is not native to the US, Amy L. Nash [5] writes:
"The first attempts to introduce the European Starling to the United States from 1872 to 1890 were unsuccessful. After repeated efforts to introduce the bird, it was finally successfully brought to New York City. It was on March 16 1891, when a wealthy New Yorker with a strong passion for the birds of Shakespeare, Eugene Schieffelin, decided to import the starlings into New York City’s Central Park."

This late introduction gives us an opportunity to gauge the impact of the starling. Did its introduction have any effect on the prevalence of Parkinson's? Does anyone have historical PD prevalence figures for the US in the 1800s?


References

[1] "Establishing the Link Between Viruses and Parkinson’s Disease"
NPF, 2009.
http://www.parkinson.org/NationalPar...efa0084c18.pdf

[2] http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ighlight=avian

[3] Influenza Other Respi Viruses. 2011 Jul;5(4):268-75. doi: 10.1111/j.1750-2659.2010.00190.x. Epub 2010 Dec 13.
"Detection of influenza viral gene in European starlings and experimental infection."
Qin Z, Clements T, Wang L, Khatri M, Pillai SP, Zhang Y, Lejeune JT, Lee CW.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21651737

[4] http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ighlight=avian

[5] http://www.radfordpl.org/wildwood/to...n_Starling.htm

John

[Bob Dawson]

[QUOTE=johnt;961684]Do birds play a part in Parkinson's?

A number of posts have been made to this forum suggesting that birds may play a part in the etiology of Parkinson's. I thought it would be useful for us to have references to them in one place.... Quoting Johnt


Jean-T,
Thank you for the time you spend conducting research to unravel the mystery that afflicts us. Especially noted that you went through our own files here, locating and bringing forward previous threads on the same topic; and added in the internet addresses of new evidence, and then put it all together is such a clear and orderly fashion.
That's a model citizen scientist at work.
If I had a theory to present to the world Parkie Org-Fest in October, I would want you to present it. Everybody would say, "Who was that masked man?"
Especially stunning that while the research world is struggling valiantly to come up with a new flavour agonist and another study on the substantia-nigra's impact obsessive - compulsiveness,
You upset the dopa-cart by saying, "Well you know it might involve something else, such as flocks of birds."
There is dead silence in the room. I say, Sir, did you say "birds"?
- It is a stark reminder that it is not impossible to suggest that very large numbers of symptom checkers have been barking up the wrong tree.

[johnt]

This post provides further evidence for a possible connection between birds and PD. However, it shouldn't be seen as specific: this bird, not that bird; this animal, but not that animal; or, even, this pathogen, but not that pathogen. Rather, it should be seen as an example of infections that can lay dormant for years until a person becomes immunocompromised.

Perhap we don't hear the dog bark because many of the dogs bark at the same time.

Birds are associated with toxoplasma infection. [1]

A sample of European starlings, Sturnus vulgaris, culled from a communal roost in a city in Central England, was examined for infection with Toxoplasma. Eleven (8%) of 133 birds were confirmed as infected after horizontal passage of brain homogenate through mice.... If the proportion of starlings infected with Toxoplasma in this sample is representative of the population as a whole, then this bird could play an important role in the maintenance of the infection in urban environments.

Toxoplasma gondii associated with PD. [2]

"The sero-positivity rate for anti-T. gondii IgG antibodies in PD patients and control groups were 42.3 and 22.5%, respectively, and they were statistically significant (p=0.006). These results suggest that Toxoplasma infection may be involved in the pathogenetic mechanisms of PD."

Why don't people know they are infected? [3]

T. gondii is a major cause of subclinical human infection and an important opportunistic pathogen that causes severe disease in immunocompromised patients.

References

[1] Ann Trop Med Parasitol. 1989 Apr;83(2):173-7.
"Incidence of Toxoplasma infection in a population of European starlings Sturnus vulgaris from central England."
Peach W, Fowler J, Hay J.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2604457

[2] Neurosci Lett. 2010 May 21;475(3):129-31. doi: 10.1016/j.neulet.2010.03.057. Epub 2010 Mar 27.
"The probable relation between Toxoplasma gondii and Parkinson's disease."
Miman O, Kusbeci OY, Aktepe OC, Cetinkaya Z.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20350582

[3] J Infect Dis. 1995 Dec;172(6):1561-6.
"Toxoplasma gondii comprises three clonal lineages: correlation of parasite genotype with human disease."
Howe DK, Sibley LD.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7594717

John

[soccertese]

just my opinion but if i were you john, i'd run this stuff by someone who actually does population epidemiology, especially on pd, before posting anything this wildly speculative and possibly unnecessarily worrying people. imho responsible scientists don't do this.

i could just bite my tongue but that's not me.

you think researchers somehow are ignoring looking into this possible correlation because you can't find any research? i think they would have seen it by now if there was one.

[johnt]

soccertese,

I welcome evidence-based, rational, scientific discussion of my posts. Your post is not that.

I suggest you read the references, look at the field in general, then either come back with an apology or a reasoned refutation.

John

[soccertese]

john,
when i see something that alarms me i give my opinion, i don't mince words. i feel as strongly about that as you do trying to find correlations, something that should be left to academics imho. these are incredibly complex hypotheses you are throwing out on a social media message board.

i've done research, scientists don't discuss this sort of stuff on social media. what your're doing imho isn't science, i'm not going to spend hours trying to discuss something that even a highly trained scientist would be challenged to discuss meaningfully. i see what you are doing as more yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, not discussing science. maybe i'm blowing this out of proportion, if this is just a social network where there are no consequences to what one posts, especially when you present yourself as a very knowledgeable person, then i apologize. but i think people are influenced by what you post and i think much of it can have unintended consequences.

[johnt]

soccertese,

You have every right to disagree with me. But your tone goes way beyond what is reasonable. For instance, you write: "i see what you are doing as more yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, not discussing science".

Apologize or substantiate.

John

[soccertese]

john,
i apologize. i take this board far too seriously at times.

having done some agricultural research which required some statistics to analyze the results, i guess i get more alarmed when i see someone trying to make correlations that they couldn't prove in a million years. just my opinion. i just have too much respect for those that actually do this sort of stuff to try to even play around with it on a message board. but that's just me. so again, i'll drop out of this thread.

[moondaughter]

Originally Posted by johnt

Do birds play a part in Parkinson's?

There are other pathogens carried by birds, such as TB, which have been implicated in Parkinson's.

References

[1] "Establishing the Link Between Viruses and Parkinson’s Disease"
NPF, 2009.
http://www.parkinson.org/NationalPar...efa0084c18.pdf

John

John,

Perhaps its not only the insult or trigger event that began the cascade of sx but the response to them. For example when one person is exposed to a toxin or virus they may exhibit chills, nausea, develop allergy whereas another person exposed to the same insult may develop headaches, diarrhea, even fibromyalgia.

If one examines individuals as regards their total being including physical, emotional, and mental pathologies thereinlies many clues when looking for patterns that cross the various states of being. Say for example a person that responds with high fever may also present with high blood pressure, red cheeks and a firey temper.

seems with pd we are looking for a match that started the whole !@@## forest fire

I really appreciate your posts
sharilyn

[GerryW]

I have often wondered why I have PD and my identical twin doesn't. One difference is that I kept a lot of exotic birds as a young adult and he didn't. Maybe this is it.