All-

Turmeric seems to work wonders BUT there is a real problem IF you have H pylori! I and one other have run into this but that's too many. If you are having unexplained worsening of symptoms or extreme bloating, stop immediately!

The problem is that turmeric kills H pylori better than most antibiotics and if you have a big colony the dead bugs can make you very sick, particularly if you have constipation.

If it happens to you, you WILL know it!. As in "What the hell's going on??"

It took me a week or more to finally realize what was happening. I suspended the turmeric four days ago, got better each day and am my old self today. So it does wear off. But it will scare the heck out of you and if you continued would do severe damage.

Please forward this on to anyone who might be dealing with something similar and my sincere apologies to any of you who might have followed me up this road.

As for myself, I intend to get my GI system tuned up along with my liver function and then use the turmeric and some other botanicals to get the HP under control and will report on that. I suggest that if anyone else is so inclined that you let me go first.

For those of you taking tablets, you are probably OK. They tend to disolve in the intestine. The powder hits the stomach and that's where the HP lives.

Given the many problems that HP causes (cancer, ldopa failure, motor symptoms, etc) this may be a blessing in disguise.

Sorry guys.

I've just been taking 1/2 tsp. of turmeric most days. My PD symptoms have been a little worse lately, but I've blamed that on the lack of sleep caused by not being able to be outside in the bitter cold we've had. And I've had just very minor nausea on and off. So I wonder if even the small am't I've taken has caused problems. They're not severe, so maybe I should just continue and see if I can get past this, ie kill all the H pylori over time. What do you think, Rick?

So far as HP goes, it mutates so fast that slow and easy may just breed a stronger bug.

But HP has such an effect on PD that I don't want to ignore it either.

I'm not going to advise anybody of anything right now. Quite frankly, I'm a little shook. The toxin was that impressive. And the thought that a mistake on something as simple as a spice could get my friends into serious trouble is sobering.

But I will share what my thoughts are right now about how I am going to proceed. It may change completely.

First of all, ignoring HP is not a luxury that I can afford. It can lead to ulcers and cancer in normal folks. PWP have the added burden of a sensitivity to it in many cases that makes a little go a long way. It has been shown recently to interfere with ldopa absorption as well. From what I experienced over the last couple of weeks I suspect it of being the source of a large percentage of my symptoms over the last year or two. In short, it is not in my interests to look the other way.

At the same time, I don't know that complete eradication is possible or even desireable. It lives nowhere else but in the human stomach. Is it parasitic? Or is it symbiotic? Is it an invader or a colonist that has overgrown its place? If I eradicate it with antibiotics I have to sacrifice my other microflora and try to rebuild them. Do I need the stress of that while dealing with the toxins as well?

So at present I think I will try to drastically prune it back rather than eliminate it and then hold it in check. This means no antibiotics destroying the other bacteria for starters. I already know that turmeric kills HP but doesn't seem to attack the other bacteria. The trick is to move the dead bugs out as quickly as possible. So I have to have my GI system up and going first thing. Liver support as well. And lots of green tea that purportedly counters the toxin.

Once that is in place, I swallow hard and bathe my stomach with powdered turmeric for several days. Then I will switch to another botanical with anti-HP properties for a few days. Then maybe a third one. Then cycle through again and assess the situation. Once satisfied with this "pruning" I will incorporate anti-HP dietary changes to keep the survivors in check.

That's the way I'm thinking now. But first I continue to detox and come back to normal.

If I was just wanting turmeric and didn't want to deal with the HP, there is the option of using tablets that break down slowly and so most of it gets past the stomach where the HP lives.

Those are the thoughts whirling around in my head. This week.

-Rick

Curcumin - warnings Gallbladder etc.

I picked up some Tumeric/Curcumin capsules the other day and found they came with the following warning. Having had a gallbladder attack last year, I am mildly concerned since I had not heard this mentioned before. Comments??


Risk Information - Consult a health practicioner if you have a history of gallstones, bilary tract obstructions, and/or stomach ulcers, or are taking
blood-thinners. Do not use if you are pregnant or breastfeeding.

take care ,,, ken

ken-

I went to Medline and searched "turmeric gallstones" and got only one hit as follows (in part):
"As a large percentage of gallbladder patients have continued digestive complaints following cholecystectomy, the author examines complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) treatments to counteract gallstone formation. Herbal medicine such as turmeric, oregon grape, bupleurum, and coin grass may reduce gallbladder inflammation and relieve liver congestion. Elimination of offending foods, not necessarily 'fatty' foods, is often successful..."

"turmeric biliary" turned up only four hits including:
"CONCLUSIONS: The study presents the first solid indication that extracts from Schollkraut/Curcuma (Cholagogum F Nattermann) which have widely been used in daily practice for many decades have beneficial effects on pain due to biliary dyskinesia."

"turmeric ulcers" yielded only seven hits the most recentof which was entitled: Curcuma longa extract protects against gastric ulcers by blocking H2 histamine receptors.

Finally, "turmeric blood thinner" yielded only four hits. The most relevant was moaning about how about twenty different herbs had the "potential" to interact with warfarin and made the assumption the problem was with the herbs and not the blood thinner.

So I am very puzzled why the notice was given.

-Rick

Rick,
Be careful you are blaming the right thing for your relapse, the cause could be any number of other changes you have made to your regime. As you know, I have been taking curcumin for years, even before you started. I never experienced your relapse, and have only found benefit. There are quite a few others who have started curcumin and only found benefit. I had a breath test recently for HP, and it was negative. Only an endoscopy and a very accurate test to detect traces of HP, showed I still had traces of HP.
HP is a nasty bacteria, that you are as well rid of. It can cause ulcers and cancer. There are many scientific papers which show curcumin can kill HP. None of them mention the effects you experienced. My wife recently started taking curcumin, and did not experience any ill effects.
Curcumin is high in the diet of the Indian population, in curries. There, the incidence of PD is 14 per 100,000 population. This compares with 280 per 100,000 in the USA. Do people have your sort of relapse every time they have a curry??? Curries are laced with a high level of curcumin. It would be interesting to compare the incidence of stomach ulcers and cancers too.
I am not saying you are wrong in your assumption that curcumin caused your problems, I can not prove with certainty what caused it. Only be cautious in creating red alerts. It may persuade people to drop a treatment which is giving them benefit. The difference could be that I, (and many others)take curcumin in capsule form, you take powder. However, I doubt if this is the cause, or presumably a strong curry would give your problems.
Ron
Ron.

Ron-

1- I have no doubt whatsoever but the form taken was the factor here. Several years of tablets posed no problem for me, presumably because they sailed trough the stomach intact.

2- Curcumin/turmeric is far too valuable to dismiss. This interaction with HP is just a factor to be aware of.

3- HP is a very serious matter for PWP and turmeric seems better than antibiotics but must be used properly. not in the clumsy manner demonstrated.

-Rick

i've been taking one teaspoon of tumeric root powder each day for a couple weeks. what exactly happens when the hp die?, gas, diarhia, nauusea, ? and what's it got to do with constipation? i don't want to embarass anyone but i am curious.

IF you are in the minority of PWP who also harbor a big HP colony,
AND you take turmeric in powdered form rather than tablets,
THEN the turmeric kills the HP.

As each bacterium decomposes it leaves a little poison behind.
A well oiled GI system moves all that out in a speedy manner, but
a sluggish system allows it to build up.

There is only a problem if ALL the conditions are there- PD, HP, powder, and constipation.

As for symptoms, if you get unusual bloating or if your PD starts to get worse, back off.

I stopped six days ago and seem completely recovered.

In fact, I have cut my requip back in the process. I had been wrestling with weird symptoms all summer that I kept blaming on hypoglycemia. In trying to cope with that I had gone to 40 mg/day, well beyond the 24 mg max suggested. I am now back to the 24 to 28 range and seem just as good when this adventure began.

The only explanatin I can come up with is that I may have a net gain from the experience due to a lessened HP load since it has been shown that they interfere with ldopa. However, I do not recommend that particular route to anyone at this time since there is some danger, I do, however, intend to pursue it myself and will post as I work through it. The big question is will maintaining a steady system flush be all that is required?

Finally let reiterate that this should in no way turn anyone away from turmeric/curcumin. It is just too valuable. Pay attention to your body and if you suspect HP is around stick to the tablets. I took them for three years with no problem before the powder.