That would be nice!

Just checking in, it's been a long while since I have! Great to hear about your new venture, Icehouse! Congrats!

In one month I'll be sober for two years, I have slacked off on taking my vitamins, normally just a daily vitamin. Once or twice a week I'd take B1, B12, and folate.

I feel great, although the cold hands and feet still linger on. I'm starting to think that it is permanent for all the alcohol toxins that I have binged.

I'll be restarting the engine of being religious with the B1, B12, and Folate in the new year. I'm also looking into a paleo diet of fruit and vegetable smoothies in the new year.

Glad to hear many are doing so well!

Seriously well done on 2 years KW, great stuff.

How Long Will The Effects of One Drink Last??
 

Hello all. I read this forum regularly but have not had a reason to post in some time. It is so encouraging to read everyone's success stories with proper diet, supplementation and of course abstinence!

I have refrained from drinking for over a year now, and my neurpathy has improved considerably. I have also gone completely paleo, always my supplements, and am on medication to manage an auto immune disease. Since I have been feeling good, I decided to "test" my neuropathy by having one cocktail last night. I did not even finish it but woke up in the middle of the night with burning feet and feeling sick to my stomach.

Obviously just this small bit of alcohol was enough to set my nerves off. My question is how long is this going to last? My feet are still in fire this morning and I feel wiped out?

Thank you...

So, what were the results of the "test"? ;)

I woke up in the middle of the night with burning feet and felt disoriented, almost like the old days of the morning after a binge night. I am still off for sure and can barely get through my usual gym workout. This morning I feel "electric currents" in my feet and legs.

If I just set myself back a year by having 1/2 a drink, that is just craziness! It is still so hard for me to believe that this is alcoholic neuropathy when I never had a problem stopping drinking. My husband and I are in social circles where there is a lot of binge drinking on the weekends and I fell into a routine of drinking and not eating so it probably stemmed more from the nutritional deficiencies end of alcoholic neuropathy. No doctor has yet to confirm this diagnosis though since I have Sjogren's which causes neuropathy.

This season is just especially difficult since every other day is another holiday party centered around having cocktails! Ugh!

Yes, social circles wreak havoc on the desire to consume. I remember my first outing to a place where booze was abundant, a Jimmy Buffett concert back in 2012. Not the wisest choice but I managed :)

Well, I guessing by the results of the "test" that you are not going to have the joy of a drink every now and then. That is unfortunate.

But, a glass of tonic water with ice will suffice and let you enjoy others too!

Good luck over the Holidays and take care of your body first :)

It is so odd how just a few, perhaps even one, alcoholic drink can cause a flare up of symptoms, even after a year or two of abstinence. I have seen a comment on that somewhere. Perhaps it was from Mrs. D. That has happened to me. It doesn't make sense to me, but it seems to be common. Any thoughts on that MrsD at this Holiday moment?

Sorry, I don't know. If it is a reaction to the congeners in the drink however, that could be considered an "allergy" or food intolerance.

Also there is a possibility it is a "learned" response. That means that there is a pathway that exists from the past, in the nervous system to register the alcoholic drink. But that I think is just a theory.

I do not believe it is a reaction to drink ingredients as the reaction is the same to wine, vodka, or tequila - with no mixers except sparkling water.

If it is a learned response, does that mean it is somewhat "in my head"? Can it be unlearned with moderation?

Hi Cat. Some studies suggest that rational drinking skills can be learned by individuals who have a history of alcohol abuse. Personally, I have never seen it work and I can't do it myself. The effort required to continually self monitor my thoughts and behavior is not worth it, and I have failed 100% of the time, eventually. Now, with PN, I don't bother at all with the exception of my experiment I discussed in a previous post.

As far as your physical reaction to even modest amounts of alcohol, that seems odd to me as well when it happens , and I am not aware of any data that suggest there is anything you can do to "unlearn" it. Frankly, I doubt it. My hunch is the nerves are so damaged that small amounts somehow aggravate symptoms beyond what one would expect. Best to keep the plug in the jug.

Here are my thoughts on "unlearning".

While I would love for the opportunity to have a glass of wine with dinner, or a beer on a summer day, it is just not something that I would want to "test". It is a known fact that relapse is never the same, it is often progressively worse. Meaning that people will fall harder, and every time they go back to alcohol they will abuse it more then before.

At this point in my sobriety I am scared of what that would look like. I have come too far to even dabble with the notion of drinking again. It is just not worth it.

I can walk again, I have my children back in my life, I can work, I can volunteer, I can drive at any time of the day without worry!

Even though the pull of alcohol is strong, the joy of life is stronger.

I would imagine it would feel like russian roulette for me. So the first time went well, and I didn't go overboard? And the second time too? How much luck exactly would I expect to have?

And I'm sure that I would behave that "first time". It wouldn't even cost much restraint. And yeah, maybe even that second time. And then? Less and less time between "having a social drink"? Have one bad day somewhere (pet dies, financial problem, a loved one passing away...) and drink a bit too much- thinking I have it under control anyway?

No (I'd use a swear word here) way. Like Icehouse says: so much risk for so little reward. Chances of the addiction being even worse that time around: 99%. Chances of being able to break the cycle again: a *lot* less than last time. It's like opening a door and you're just not sure if you'll ever be able to close it again.

I honestly feel fine with abstinence. Once that decision was solid, and proved to be sustainable, I just knew that was it, alcohol wise.

I had no problem buying a small bottle of high quality champagne for my wife for her birthday, 2 weeks ago. She felt bad for me at first until I made it clear there is no reason to feel bad: my choice, for me only.

Mind you, I'm not holier than thou. The fleeting thought of a cold beer does occur. Say, once every 2 months. Almost when I'm not paying attention. .3 seconds later my rational brain kicks in, sees it for what it is, smiles, and I move on.

Yesterday I accidentally looked at pictures of myself when I was 6 days in rehab. It was... sobering. You'll have to believe me on my word as I don't exactly want to post those up here. ;)

I think I'll look at them again if I ever feel wobbly. They are pretty shocking.

Merry Christmas to you all! I trust that your days will be filled with family and fun and that you will ALL behave ;)

Lions Mane Mushrooms...
 

I know....What?? yep, I added this little number to my mix of supplements I take in my effort to go where no man has gone before, maybe, in trying to heal PN...I found them at Swansons, at a seemingly decent price. Just FYI....

"Int J Med Mushrooms. 2012;14(5):427-46.
Neuroregenerative potential of lion's mane mushroom, Hericium erinaceus (Bull.: Fr.) Pers. (higher Basidiomycetes), in the treatment of peripheral nerve injury (review).
Wong KH1, Naidu M, David RP, Bakar R, Sabaratnam V.
Author information
Abstract
We present a model case study of the activity of aqueous extract of Hericium erinaceus fresh fruit bodies in promoting functional recovery following crush injury to the peroneal nerve in adult female Sprague-Dawley rats. The aim was to explore the possible use of this mushroom in nerve repair. The activities of aqueous extract were compared to activities exhibited by mecobalamin (vitamin B12), which has been widely used in the treatment of peripheral nerve disorders. Analysis of walking track indicated that return of hind limb function and normal toe spreading occurred earlier in treated groups than in the negative control (non-treated) group. Regeneration of axons and reinnervation of motor endplates/neuromuscular junction in extensor digitorum longus muscle of rats in treated groups developed better than in the negative control group. Further, immunofluorescence studies also showed that dorsal root ganglia neurons ipsilateral to the crush injury in rats of treated groups expressed higher immunoreactivities for Akt and MAPK signaling pathways as well as c-Jun and c-Fos genes compared to the negative control group. Akt cascade plays a major role in mediating neurotrophin-promoted cell survival, while MAPK cascade is involved in mediating neurite outgrowth. Immediate early gene expression was also involved in the cascade of events leading to regeneration. Local axonal protein synthetic machinery was also enhanced in the distal segments of crushed nerves in treated groups. Therefore, daily oral administration of H. erinaceus could promote the regeneration of injured rat peroneal nerve in the early stage of recovery.
PMID: 23510212 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

1248 days sober.

Lions Mane has me intrigued, but I think I will follow the results of Newstown and see how that goes :)

I am not one to make new years resolutions, but I think 2015 will be an epic year for me. I am going to try new things (food, physical activity, going out of my comfort zone, etc) to better myself as a person. I am going to spend more time with strangers, I am going to step out in Faith and do things that scare the crap out of me. I am going to buy another Porsche 914, with a 5-spd, so I can work my legs more (ok, that is just a lame excuse, but I need a good one).

I also vow to finish making amends to those I have hurt. I have one more to write to ease my mind, that I have been procrastinating about for 4 years.

And with all that, I am just going to take it day-by-day, enjoy sobriety, and continue to be grateful that I am who I am today!

- Icehouse

So there is hope for me?
 

I too drank for many years, quit for 13 and started up when my world fell apart and continued to go from bad to worst. I was diagnosed with alcoholic neuropathy and continued to self medicate. Here I am today almost unable to walk from the weakness in my legs. The pins and needles have progressed to burning pain and my left fingers are numb and my arm weak. The latest progression is heart palpitations, dizziness and problems with my eye muscles. I am a mess. I have been searching this board for inspirational stories but there aren't many. Thank God I found this one.
Are there any other success stories?
Oh, and I am 6 days sober but actually haven't drank a whole lot the last month or so since I have been feeling so crappy.
Is there hope for me?

Welcome Prancer. :Wave-Hello:

Absolutely! We may be a small group here on this anonymous site, but we know what you are going through, I promise!

I, for one, am one of the success stories. There are others too with just as much to be proud of.

Have you read all the pages?
Are you attending meetings?
Are you taking any vitamin supplements yet?

6 days is awesome, you can do it!

Welcome Prancer. Abstaining from alcohol is your best bet to recovery, along with vitamins, a well balanced diet, and exercise. I've also had many of those symptoms and I'm 2 days from 2 years of sobriety. I haven't fully "recovered" but I am so much better than where I was 2 years ago. Everyday is a struggle and everyone has their own choices to make, but I hope you choose to abstain alcohol and give your body a fighting chance at recovery.


Happy new year to everyone on this thread! All the best to you and your families this new year!

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. I have been lurking here for a couple years now but wasn't ready to quit and join your club. I am ready. It takes what it takes and I want to try to salvage my life and hopefully my health.
I do feel compelled to mention something I read last night on a tread posted by MrsD. It made reference to studies that suggest benfothiamine is not recommended for those that are at risk for cancer. I am a cancer survivor and this was disappointing as I have been taking it for a couple months and it seemed like my best chance of improving my mobility. The research suggested that if there are cancer cells present the benefothiamine will feed the cells, much like sugar does I guess. Anyway I believe everyone has cancer cells looming and just waiting for low immunities to set the disease in motion. In my case it was major drama and stress along with not eating and heavy drinking. MrsD, are you aware of the article I am speaking about? Am I representing the content correctly? That is what I took away from it so sadly I will not be able to take the benfothiamine as I am high risk given my medical history.

I found two things you can read in depth:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/thiamin/

and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23893925

Other nutrients have been suggested also to fuel cancers. Most recently folate joined the list. Cancers use nutrients to grow like any other tissue in the body.

You can get tested to see if you are low in thiamine. This vitamin (and benfotiamine) get very low in alcoholics, diabetics and those using diuretics.

If you are super worried about this, then don't use it. But I would at least get some blood work to see if you are really low.
You'll see in the two links that really low thiamine levels due to cancer are still treated with thiamine today. The connection therefore is not cast in stone. You could just use it for the recovery period of the drinking and once on your way, you can drop it if you like. As the Pauling link points out...low thiamine has serious consequences for the brain and heart/circulatory system, however.

All good thoughts MrsD. Thanks.

Update on me: Still taking all the recommended vitamins religiously. My fingers are getting worse though. Tonight I sliced my thumb while using the large slicer on a grater to slice potatoes, although I don't think it was a result of my finger numbness, I was just in a hurry.

The fingers are bad but hey, at least I can still type at this point in juncture! :eek:

I broke down and made a doctor appointment. First one will have to be with a general practitioner, in early February. The city I live in has very limited neurologists (with terrible reviews) so I will have to drive a couple hours to one of the nearby cities (assuming the GP will recommend seeing a neurologist as a next step). I have a lot of fatigue lately so I did more research and that almost points towards MS - but I doubt it, not with my 24/7 PN symptoms and my history of heavy drinking. From my understanding, MS symptoms come and go, and aren't constant like they are with alcoholic PN.

We bought a rowing machine which is great - I can get exercise, both arms and legs, without having to worry about my stupid numb feet slipping, or doing something like tripping. (I am petrified of trying to walk on a treadmill because of that!) Still scared every time I get in the car to drive, that my feet will quit working like they did before. I drive only a cautious few miles each week, only to get groceries. Not to mention that I drive like a grandma now (as well as walk like one).

So, that's my update. I still have "good days" and "bad days". Today I am feeling pretty good, the extremities are moving well enough to get laundry done and use the rowing machine and cook a nice dinner and type this message! I am relieved, because the weekend was really a bad two days and I thought I had taken a decided turn for the worse.

I'll check in once I get some news about whatever testing they may do. I haven't been to a doctor ever since the symptoms started, almost 2 years ago.

Back from skiing...
 

I took my kids skiing (actually they are 23,21, and 18, not actually kids, I suppose) and bottom line: a good time was had by all, and I overcame my concern about PN and skied my own 62 year old body down the bunny hill a few times and loved it. I was so excited. Hadn't been on skis in 30 years.

Well, I got home a few days ago, and my PN symptoms have been as bad as they have ever been. Which is not disabling, by any means, but still, this stuff baffles me. I was so happy I could ski and was/am looking forward to more trips this winter. But I have no idea (too much exertion??) why my PN is worse.

I guess the point of this post is that if you sometimes go thru bad stretches, or maybe even good ones, that don't make sense to you, you are not alone. Hopefully I will be back to what qualifies as "baseline" in mi casa and ready to take on another hill, soon.

I find that I can't do what I used to do for the same amount of time. I get tired quicker, the body just does like the 'stress' much anymore.

But, I applaud you for taking the risk, taking the chance and going for it!

If we ever get snow this year, then I will probably try skiing myself, but it's not looking good so far :)

Yes, it has been downright balmy since we got back, Icehouse, we picked a good time to go. Thanks for our comments, it is so helpful to get others ideas on this stuff. I still don't think I have recovered and I didn't even do that much, at least it didn't seem like it at the time. But I suppose just the awkwardness of ski boots would be enough to make these old nerves rebel. Hope for snow your way!!

Very much this. I can not figure it out, and have stopped trying to. I can go from feeling top of the world feet-wise to "darn, that hurts bad" overnight. The "bad" is still continuing to be "less bad", so there is improvement still, but it's very confusing and sometimes disheartening.

My last big project was turning a naked attic into a cosy library. Cleaning, drywall, flooring, electricity, concrete fixing, painting, cabinet making, moving the books... everything. All upstairs, so I must have done those stairs hundreds of times. You can't do that if the PN is bad, I'm sure you agree. Yet some mornings I still wonder if I'll even be able to get up and walk to my desk.

So when people ask me "How are your feet" I can only reply "it depends". Very confusing.

I have to wonder if you have compression or inflammation in your knees. Skiing is really tough on knees.
Try some magnesium lotion on your ankles and knees and see if that helps.
It can do wonders for nerve pain. A little goes a long way.
Rub in about a nickle's worth on both knees once a day.
WalMart, Walgreen's, and online Amazon carry it for a very affordable price.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Morton-Uns...fl-oz/23711655
Not all stores carry it yet, as it is relatively new.

Thanks Mrs D! I shall add it to my shopping list for tomorrow.

1279 days sober.

No pain. Minor discomfort here and there. Nothing real exciting.

:p

It will get worst before it gets better, or at least it will seen that way. Numbness is something I've yet to overcome, all my other symptoms of PN had simmered down after 2 years of abstaining from alcohol. It will get better, but to what extent, is different for everyone! Keep your head up, find the right care, but most importantly keep up the vitamins for the time being and eating healthy. The best shot at recovery.

Thank you, Kidwonder! I also have been continuing to research it online. Some doctors perform an EMG - electromyogram - has anyone here had that done, and is it effective for diagnosis? I read a bunch of horror stories about how much getting zapped like that hurts, and I am a total wimp, so I would rather not go that route! :eek:

That doesn't hurt, wanna, at least i don't see how it could. Thats a fairly standard test.

It can hurt for some people. Others not so much.

Maybe i had a different test. There was nothing that could hurt, unless, i suppose, if a doc or technician ripped the taped sensors off one's body.

:Funny-Post:

Wow! So I just spent the entire hour+ reading this thread. What an inspiration for those suffering. Honestly, many folks would lie down and die. My favorite statement (paraphrased), "only place to go is up from here".

The ability to focus on a positive attitude is remarkable on its own. I need some of this!!

Yeah, the one I was reading about, they insert needles in various places in your legs (and arms in some cases) and ask you to flex your muscle. Some patients reported that it was so painful that the doctor had to stop the procedure (they used the word "excruciating"). Then there is the pain afterward from bruising, etc. I think you may have had a nerve conduction test, with those electrode thingies taped to you. No matter what, I hate getting poked and prodded! ;)

What you said! But I am still in the lie down and die mode. I just need to keep reading this thread over and over!