Pixel, you appear to have a great attitude and have done some research. Good job!

If you can keep away from alcohol then you will have a much better chance of reversing the symptoms, so give it a shot... :)

Good luck and we are here for ya!

My Neurologist started me on 10 mg. of Nortriptyline today as well. I'm not sure if that is just a starting dose or if it is therapeutic for PN. I know for depression the dosage is generally about 100 mgs. No drinking here. Eating well and praying for the best.

700 days here today, going to 2 years next month. :)

Something I noticed:

I'm not an expert, and I hope Mrs. D. chimes in, but a high reading like that without supplementation could mean that your body is not able to use the B12 that is available. I'm a bit amazed your doc didn't point this out.

Typical readings for "healthy" people would be between 400 and 800 ish, 1900 is very very high and normally only seen when you take B12 supplements.

If it is the famous MTHFR problem, you might still benefit from methylcobalamin supplements. But again, I'd prefer that Mrs. D. confirms this first.

In any case, good luck with the alcohol stop, you can do it. :cool:

Yes, 1900 is very high. Without using ANY form of vitamin containing B12, the suspects are, liver damage, kidney disease of some kind, or a myeloproliferative (bone marrow) disease (mostly cancers).

An MMA test would show if B12 is working in the body, and not just floating around.

I think your doctor should do something, if only a few more tests, to see if it warrants looking for a hidden disease.

Most B complexes have B12 in them, and some breakfast cereals, and energy bars. If you consume them before the test, you could test high. But as a comparison, I tested at 1999 (from 849 normally) when I tried the new at the time Puritan's methylB12 in the recent past. I took 5mg orally in the morning on an empty stomach and 3 months later tested at that high level. My doctor was convinced that oral cannot work and was surprised that it did seem to work very effectively for me!

One should stop all vitamin supplements 3 to 5 days before any further testing to obtain a more accurate result.

Thanks Mrs. D. I've had blood tests to rule out kidney and liver damage. Everything was normal. I did have a breakfast that was high in B12 and a multi-vitamin right before my blood test. I didn't know they were going to do one, or I would have fasted. Both the GP and Neurologist said not to worry about the high reading, but your point of whether the B12 is just floating around makes sense to me. I need to call the Neurologist in 3 weeks to let her know how the Nortriptyline is working. I will ask her about the MMA test then. I also wonder if after no drinking for a month, the B12 may absorb better since my liver won't be as busy breaking down excess alcohol. Funny that both doctors insisted that there is no harm in a high B12.

Thank you for the words of encouragement to just keep pushing on, Newstown. I guess that's all we can do, is to take it a day at a time. It truly is inspirational being on this thread of the forum, the encouragement does not go unseen.

I've just surpassed the 500 day mark two days ago. I'm floored at my own dedication to stay sober and while hitting that goal of 500 days is a vast importance, I realize it's just the beginning of a long battle against alcohol induce neuropathy.

500 days is amazing KW, big congrats. Yes I know it's just a milestone like 499 or 501 days, but it's a milestone nonetheless.

We're all probably vastly different people with varying backgrounds etc. and yet we are pretty much in the same boat and know what the other is talking about, and we know how a little support goes a very very long way - sometime more than we dare to admit.

I should update my thread as it has been a bit of a rollercoaster these last 4 months, but the end result is that, even though it varies so much day to day, it is still getting better. Soon, it will be distant background pain, like a sore elbow or something. And if soon means: in 4 years than that's "soon" enough for me still. :)

700 & 500 on the same page. Love it!

I have been debating what my next "milestone" will be since clearing 1000. I think I may wait till the 2K mark to celebrate again.

Y2K? I dunno.

1035 days sober.

Well, I did something else I thought I would never do again. This is inspiration for the rest of you ;)

Here in Virginia there is a National Park with a place called Crabtree Falls. It is a 1.7 mile walk to the top of the falls with lots of overlooks and such. BUT, what they do not tell you is that the hike contains 1.4 miles of what can be hardly called a trail!! :eek:

Climbing rocks, hurdling stumps, trees and roots, stopping for animals, etc..

I had to make myself a walking stick to get to the top (to compensate my lack of perfect balance). :D

So, a 3.4 mile hike up and down a mountain took me about 5 hours and I was wore the heck out. The girlfriend thought it was funny. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I am just happy I could do such a thing again :)

Press on folks, you CAN do this!!!

10 Months Sober today....301 Days.

I feel really good. Of course, I retired at the end of April so who wouldn't, right? :)

My diet has improved dramatically since there was lots of junk at work. Ice cream, high carb, everything sugar and flour soaked. But now I am low carbing it, and feeling great.

I have been walking 30 minutes a day, and my PN seems improved , or is that my better frame of mind? Anyway, a band I played with a lot (drums) got together over Memorial Day weekend to play a private party. I was worried than I might not make it the entire 3 hours and worried about how I would stop the show if my legs and feet wouldn't cooperate. It went well and I felt great. I have always tended toward worry and catastrophizing with most physical complaints and sometimes I wonder how much of this is in my head.

Oh well, yes, Icehouse ...this CAN be done. Day at a time , baby.

Nothing to report, apart from being 730 days sober, which apparently equals 2 years. ;)

Awesome, just awesome. You are just fantastic, I know only to well how hard it can be and you should be giving yourself a clap on the back. Very well done.:hug:

ya got it going on
one day at a time
me

Congrats Wide-O! Keep on keeping on!!

SWEET! Good job, proud of ya my friend!

1065 days sober.

Took 10 days of vacation in MN and OH this past month with the lady. 2,200 miles of driving through multiple States and LOTS of walking.

We even took off one day and went exploring through a forest looking for an old mining cave. After 2 hours of corn fields, knee high grass, creek crossings, hills, mud and crawling through thick forest we found it! Then we had to turn around and find our way back....

4 hours of this was enough for my PN and I was ready for a nap!

Point is, I did it, and although I was sore as crap the next day I was proud that I can do this kind of thing again....and so can you!

Have a great day everyone!

Well I went a year, almost.
 

Hi gang. I would have one year complete abstinence on August 4, 2014, but I intentionally had a few adult beverages with some old friends (older than we want to admit ;) ) last week during a trip to St. Louis , Mo. It wasn't without considerable thought that I did this, so I wanted to, in the spirit of 'rigorous honesty', report my experience. I hadn't seen these two guys since the late 1970's, we were great friends growing up in high school and in college. These guys , and their wives, are not a huge Party Group, but I knew that alcohol would be quite available, and I gave a lot of thought about how I wanted to go forward.

In the past year, I have benefited greatly from avoiding alcohol. GREATLY!! And I think it would be pathetic to resume drinking like I did, especially now that I am enjoying retirement. However, with the much appreciated exception of complete absence of the occasional 'stabbing pain' I would have early on, my symptoms of numbness and other abnormal sensations of PN are considerably worse now than they were one year ago. Now, I am not that bad, in fact, I swim, play music, workout, I do about whatever I want, and it may be, in fact, that some of my more noticeable symptoms are the result of overdoing my workouts and activities. It seems that way sometimes. But I must say, that a bit of alcohol is much appreciated by me in certain situations, and I have decided to do that again. The reason: I am not at all sure my PN is from drinking, I find it hard to believe that my symptoms would be worse one year later if that was the case. Also, even if it is, I have decided a life of total abstinence is not what I want for my remaining time here on the planet, which I hope is very long indeed, and healthy. And if I find myself slipping back into old and self defeating drinking, I will stop again. I am not being a total nut here, I know that most people can't do this, and maybe I cant either. But it took a face to face meeting with old buddies to realize that this complete abstinence approach is just not for me at the moment.

I dont want to be be a bad example, and please dont resume bad habits because of this post, but I hadnt provided an update , and I do think honesty makes this thing work. I will from time to time provide updates, unless this post disturbs anyone unnecessarily, in which case I will not post anything similar.

I appreciate all the good stuff on here and good luck and keep at it, whatever path you pick, pick a healthy one for you. !!

I respect your decision and look forward to any updates :)

Well that didn't take long :) I dont want to feel like that again, Back to Day 1 for me. The very brief euphoria of alcohol is soon replaced by misery, at least for me, and I have demonstrated that over and over. So anyway, back at it. Now here is a question: Does anyone have access to the study I have mentioned, and others, about how PN symptoms from alcohol abuse get worse before they get better in many cases? The study noted that a "peeling back" process continues even tho alcohol use has stopped. For the life of me, I can not find the study , I have looked at Google Scholar and Pubmed.gov. Can not find it, and I would like to for obvious reasons: I want to see if I can find anything similar and I want to find out who did the study and try to contact them. Now that I have re-embraced abstinence after more "field research" as they say in the program, I suppose it really doesnt make much difference, but I would sure like to understand this better. How can you have a mild case of alcohol induced PN and have it get worse with a year of abstinence?? makes no sense to me. I know many of you get frustrated as I do, but does it actually get worse for you in total abstinence? I didnt think that was supposed to happen unless the symptoms are very severe.

Thanks!!

LOL, I was preparing a friendly, understanding, yet cautiously-skeptical-without-being-a-knowitall reply, and now this. :D

It's not easy, and it might be impossible. Once you crossed that bridge, moderation just doesn't seem like a valid option. It really is a 99% doesn't succeed story. Good thing you caught it early on.

I can't really help with the cause and effect situation when it comes to PN. I have separated the two in my mind and just decided that I don't want to drink anymore ever, and I'm going to do my utmost best to keep it that way. Been there, got burned, got sober, and still extremely happy I took that decision.

PN seems pretty elusive, and I really suspect co-morbidity plays a big role for many of us. I hurt my back on monday by misstepping, and now both my legs feel like they are asleep again - just like 4 years ago; that's how my PN started. In hindsight it seems that the "mechanical" nerve problem in my back jump started the PN that was already building through alcohol abuse/B12 deficiency. It doesn't hurt as bad as back then, but it did freak my out quite a bit. I was about 80% "cured", and didn't expect this to happen at all. "Not again!" was pretty much on my mind, coupled with a few well chosen swear words I won't repeat here.

I'm seeing an orthopedist in 2 weeks and hopefully he can get my back in working order again like last time.

Anyway, thanks for being honest. I do understand the thinking process behind it, I really do. Remember, that year is not "lost", and if you keep your mind to it, it will soon just be a distant blip, and a reminder that we do seem to have a small problem with ethanol. ;) Me I was on day 777 yesterday, and it's still fun seeing the number of "days without hangovers" go up.

good , spot on stuff, Wide O. My back is a mess, a real mess. I have looked into that too, and find more questions than answers. I think 'co-morbidity' is probably a big part of it for some of us, as you say.

And it's interesting, there are some studies that show people can learn to drink "rationally" just as they learned to drink "irrationally." I checked this out quite a bit, and the work is done by legit researchers. I have had success with it (you limit yourself to an ounce an hour, or a beer, glass of wine, etc, you change, with training , how you think about drinking, and so on.) but I have had much more failure with it, and I suspect this is true for most people. I read a book once called Sober For Good , I think, and this topic was covered in some detail, and the authors conclusion was that in the real world, very few people succeed in returning to rational drinking, and besides, if its that much work, who wants to?? not me, it is just not worth it. I can do if for a night or 2, but not much more.

Lets celebrate this anniversary instead!!
 

Oh, another thing, this is my birthday, my real one, I am 62. Since we can't celebrate my one year anniversary of total abstinence on Aug. 4th, you are invited to my online birthday party here!! Cookies and tea are on me!! (well we could celebrate Aug 4th, but we would have to ignore 5 days, or was it 4...whatever. ;) )

BAHAHA - I am pretty happy that I have gone almost three years without throwing up....

:pepsi: :You-Rock:

Party on!!

< where is my Sierra Mist? >

3 Years Sober Today
 

Three years ago I woke up in jail with a BAC of .37 and I had no idea where I was. Not even sure what town (or State) I was in. My wheelchair was gone, my car was gone along with all my belongings and I could not walk. I spent 4 days on a cot before I was given a walker to get to the showers. I had lost my house, my career, my marriage, my kids, my savings....

When I was released I had a Hawaiian shirt, pair of shorts and my wallet. That was it.

Three years later I have every thing I need. A job, a roof over my head, a van, my kids and a wonderful young lady.

I can walk again.

I lead recovery meetings.

I counsel other Alcoholics with PN symptoms on how to alleviate the pain and numbness.

For me, abstinence was the answer, and now its easy.

Keep up the good work folks, its is different for all of us, just find what works and keep at it!!!

That is truly inspiring!

Good for you!, Icehouse!

Great stuff Icehouse. What a difference a day (at a time) makes eh... you know the song.

There are many routes to sobriety. I always cringe when I read the AA versus non-AA discussions: pick a way that appeals to you most and give it all you got. It's about getting sober, not about being right.

I have never gotten to the jail part, but "yet" is a big word when it comes to alcohol abuse. There are many bottoms under the bottom one thinks one reached. I got out before jail/DIY but I do have this PN to remind me... my company that I had to close down... and yes, it is still the best decision I ever took.

I'm in the process of writing a book that documents my stay in rehab. My addiction counselor likes what I'm writing and told me I should do lectures. She can introduce me into that circuit. Helping others (even if it's just a tiny bit) will help me too, so that's what will happen after I finish the book.

I took notes every evening there, and it's hard writing it down. It all comes back, and it's like staring into the abyss. How on earth did I get there!?! Well, I obviously did, me, Mr. Smartypants.

Anyway, this is not about me but about you. A big congrats on 3 years, a great example for the rest of us. Well done you! :cool:

Nah, this is about US.

Well said! Loved the summary of your experiences, Icehouse. Congrats for the complete 180 and keep on truckin'!


A quick up update on my own progress, I rarely think about the days that have gone by without alcohol, it's just a norm now. Is it easier? No. Numbness surely is still the enemy. I go out here and there with friends to bars, and those nights are hard as well, having to explain myself all the time why I don't touch a single beer. All in all, I can't complain about my progress. Like many have said, it's a day at a time. I'm putting my mind and body where it should be for someone who's still in their 20s.

Newstown, but like Wide-o said, it's not a waste to have a blip as long as your honest with yourself. Your decision was a conscious one, unlike those nights in which we've all experienced of being unconscious with alcohol. We all have our own decisions to make in the end of the day, we're all here to just help encourage each other to make the best one. :) Be well everyone! Keep on keepin' on!

It is true, Kidwonder, that I thought quite a lot about it when I decided to drink with some old (young at heart) friends I hadn't seen in years. I didn't feel bad at all about "losing a year" or anything along those lines. I reasoned that if I wasn't able to resume a very modest amount of social drinking (I wasn't) , I would simply get back on "the wagon." (I did). My main goal in it all is to arrest and reverse , if possible, the symptoms of PN associated with alcohol use and abuse, not to see how many days or years of total abstinence I can rack up, although I realize it all probably goes together for the vast majority of us. I am feeling great again and don't have any lasting regrets about my 'detour.'

On another note, I will point out that I have been taking methylcobalamine the last couple of months, and I don't know if it is a coincidence or all in my head, but this is the first real improvement in symptoms I have noticed in months. Kind of ironic that this would coincide, roughly, with my additional 'research' into drinking. But I share that for what it's worth in case anyone else was thinking of giving it a try. Who knows, maybe its doing something.

Hey everyone,

I have a question to people having the same problem or maybe had the same problem and can give me some advice on what to do.

I've been drinking heavily since I was 16, mostly during the weekends but when I entered college it became a daily habit to go out and drink heavily. I'm talking 15+ drinks every night. Of course I didn't drink everyday but still it was too much. I also didn't eat healthy.. you know the drill, get up drunk get a quick bite from that pizza shop accross the street and off I went.

I'm 24 now, so you can say I've been drinking and living that life for 7 to 8 years. Never felt I was dependent since I could easily give it up for a month or so, when I had to work during the summer.

But I started walking strange, feeling very foggy, it got difficult for me to think clearly, shaking hands and I also started having trouble talking normal, erectile disfunction etc. I felt something was off so I went to visit a neurologist. She told me I probably had neurological damage, had tested my reserves and my small brains got, well, a bit smaller. (size does matter!) She gave me thiamine and vitamin B supplements. But I didn't quit drinking.

After 4 months of taking my supplements, getting physical exercise, eating healthy and drinking less she saw some improvments. But there was still some damage left.

To cut my story short, I'm still taking these supplements for another 6 months and I'm trying not to drink. I'm at 2 weeks now, but I know I will still get drunk from time to time..

Now my question to you guys: At my age and with my record of drinking, can neurological damage completely vanish when I stick to my diet, don't drink and take my supplements. Will I find my stability again when I walk, will I regain some of my brain capacity that was lost and so on?

Share your story or comfort me with your advice

Leompia,

Did any of this thread help you at all? Your symptoms are similar to what I experienced back in 2009 before I drank myself into a wheelchair.

Yes, they did. Especially your story. You should be proud of yourself man, really. But like I said in my post, I had some 6 years of heavy drinking and bad diet. I'm taking my supplements, trying to exercise and not drinking for a month now, and things are getting better already.

I'm 24 years old, so in a way I'm blessed I'm doing this now.

I just wonder if I will recover enough to regain my full intellectual potential. And I wonder if drinking once in a while ( a heavy night out every 2-3 weeks) will harm me?

I saw drinking as something that calmed me and made me loosen up.. I don't necessarily crave for it, but I guess I will miss the going out and go wild part from time to time. Not sure I need to give it up entirely or just moderate my use..

There is a link on this thread to Psychcentral
About a study done on young college age adults
that demonstrates nerve damage even when
Weekend alcohol is consumed.

There are also studies you find on Google that
Show binge drinking is very damaging
in and of itself.

And nerve damage is no fun at all....wheelchairs may be fun to play in , but when you drink yourself into one and it becomes your life then you quickly realize how overwhelming the alcohol can be on the body, and more importantly the brain.

I found this forum (and particular thread) through a Google search. I have been researching alcoholic PN because I am almost certain that I have it. I have been a long-term, every day drinker for probably 15-16 years now. I don't binge-drink, unless it's one of those "very special occasions" like being on vacation with friends. (I do NOT like getting beyond tipsy and I hate it when my friends make fools of themselves by doing so.)

My drinking escalated around 4 years ago when one thing after another in my life was going wrong (I kept saying "What else can go wrong???), and I just didn't care about myself or my health or what would happen to me. I would get up in the morning and have a few ounces of vodka just to make me happy enough to stay out of bed. That few ounces would make me "happy tired", so I'd go back to bed for another hour. Then I'd wake up crabby, so I'd reach for some more vodka. I would drink pretty much all day long; however, I followed the "one drink per hour" rule and never really would get drunk.

Well, it appears that constant flow of alcohol, whether I was getting drunk or not, was damaging my nerves. In May 2013 I started noticing numbness in my feet. It progressed to tingling, then "walking on rocks". I researched what the problem could be, knew almost for certain it was alcoholic PN, but kept drinking in spite of it. At that point I was still mad at the world because "nothing was going right". (Can you tell I am a pessimist?)

Across the next year, the numbness creeped up into my calves and is now about halfway up my legs. I still figured oh well, I'll manage. The research I had done (before I found this site) had mentioned taking a barrage of vitamins, all of which I was doing faithfully. I figured the feeling would eventually reverse. But then two wake-up calls happened:

A month ago, I was sitting at a stoplight and it was a long wait. My foot slipped off the brake and I bumped the car in front of me. I scrambled to find the brake again but as you know, my feet are numb. No damage was done, and the people in front of me were nonchalant about it (thank GOD they weren't sue-happy or thugs or something), but needless to say, I was beyond MORTIFIED by this. Then:

A couple weeks ago, the tips of my fingers went numb too. That scared the bejesus out of me, because that told me, it's spreading, not getting better. So Sunday was my first day of "let's see how you do without getting up and taking a drink right away". I actually was just fine, didn't have any withdrawal symptoms, and haven't really been craving alcohol. Since then I have had just a few drinks in the afternoon and evening, all spread out. Mainly because of habit and because I get bored. (I do "freelance" work for a company from home and with the economy the way it's been, they haven't had a lot of work for me, so I watch a lot of TV, and along with that goes having a drink.)

Anyway...this thread has been so informative to me, and I thank you all for baring your souls. I have been so ashamed of developing PN. I really wish I would have known this YEARS ago - it would have scared me enough into not drinking so much. I think this disease / condition / or whatever you call it, needs to be PUT OUT THERE for heavy consumers of alcohol to learn about. I had never heard of it, only diabetic PN.

I can say that am thankful that I don't have the severe pain that everyone mentions, just maybe an occasional (once per month) sharp or strange pain that disappears almost immediately - my BIG problem is numbness. If I could accurately describe it, my feet feel like two big sponges. They don't get cold, like I have read about. The only time they hurt is when I accidentally step on something (a rock or something), uneven pavement, or something knocks into my foot. But I do admit, the way I walk has changed. I have to be careful that my shoes are still on - they could be behind me! :eek:

Again, I thank everyone here for your candor. It's been really eye-opening.

Welcome WannaGetFeelingBack. :Wave-Hello:

Yeah, welcome!

Um, not sure where to start, but I will keep it short. Your story is very similar to mine as I had no pain, but I had the numbness in my feet and hands. The first two fingers on both hands were almost completly numb and my feet felt like walking on a bouncy castle all the time. Very tough on the balance and gait.

My solution was getting off the alcohol and letting the vitamins repair the damage (albeit slowly). As you have read, I was in a wheelchair due to this and now I can walk and play with the best of them. I am still unable to run, but then again I am not trying real hard...LOL.

We are here....

Thank you both! When I made that post, it just felt good to finally "get it out". I haven't talked about this to anyone - I am embarrassed and I don't think most people would understand. I'll be checking in periodically here to see everyone's progress, as well as report on my own.

I was a hermit for a couple years, afraid to show people what I did to myself (drinking myself into a damn chair) and it really took a toll on my mind, body and life. I was ashamed of what I had become, but once I found the root of the problem, and started to rectify the situation then all things worked out.