[MelodyL]

We had a good meeting. They showed a 90 minute movie about pain management. It was made by doctors from the State of Michigan. The whole thing was in lecture format and the doctor explained ALL about peripheral neuropathy and the various treatment methods (I'm sure we ALL know what those are). At the end of the movie, a person asked the doctor "What about Stem Cell Research". The doctor was NOT optimistic about this. She just said "there is much controversy on Stem Cell Research".

Now we all know about the various opiates, and neurontin and lyrica's and all the pain meds.

But I DID learn something new last night.

They have recently come out with lidocaine ointment. One of the guys at the meeting told us about it. Since Alan had a doctor appointment this morning, he asked his doctor, and sure enough he then got the prescription, went to the pharmacy and came home with a little tub of lidocaine ointment. 5 percent.

It looks like vaseline but smell likes spearmint. He used it this afternoon and right now it's 10:22 p.m. and I asked him "how is it working?" and he just said "so far so good".

He also has this cream called Healthifeet which he thought initially did not work, but for a few days, did work a bit.

I wonder if Alan can make his own compound, by taking a bit of the lidocaine ointment, a bit of the healthifeet cream, blending together and putting on his feet.

Might he do that? The healthifeet is supposed to encourage blood flow to the feet. Alan doesn't have a problem with blood flow, he just has zips and zaps between the toes. The healthifeet seems to make this just a wee bit better.

So why not combine the two???

Any ideas?

Melody

[aussiemom]

Hi
I don't understand something in your post. The lidocane ointment sounds great!!!! But with the patches, 12 hours on, 12 off. Must you wash the ointment off after a certain time span?

Thanks
Barb

[mrsD]

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/articl...03A0152893.php

I believe with the ointment, it is really a transdermal GEL. That means the lidocaine will mostly be absorbed. Lidocaine has been available in topical forms for a long time. I suspect this one is specially made, for absorption to the deeper layers.

The patches are designed to release lidocaine from the patch at a fixed rate. And after 12 hours for safety reasons, it must be taken off. Lidocaine affects the heart, so a rotation of the patch is necessary (some lidocaine remains in the patch after 12 hrs, and must be disposed of safely where pets and children cannot get it). I don't think much lidocaine will be left over from application of the ointment. And I suspect it could be misused and create side effects. So I would be careful with it.
I get palpitations sometimes from my Lidoderms. So I tend to cut them in half for smaller areas.

Melody, what does the label say? Exactly? Is it an industry label, or one from a compounding pharmacy?

[MelodyL]

Originally Posted by mrsD

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/articl...03A0152893.php

I believe with the ointment, it is really a transdermal GEL. That means the lidocaine will mostly be absorbed. Lidocaine has been available in topical forms for a long time. I suspect this one is specially made, for absorption to the deeper layers.

The patches are designed to release lidocaine from the patch at a fixed rate. And after 12 hours for safety reasons, it must be taken off. Lidocaine affects the heart, so a rotation of the patch is necessary (some lidocaine remains in the patch after 12 hrs, and must be disposed of safely where pets and children cannot get it). I don't think much lidocaine will be left over from application of the ointment. And I suspect it could be misused and create side effects. So I would be careful with it.
I get palpitations sometimes from my Lidoderms. So I tend to cut them in half for smaller areas.

Melody, what does the label say? Exactly? Is it an industry label, or one from a compounding pharmacy?

It's a little round tub. the front label says LIDOCAINE OINTMENT (and the word ointment) is circled. It then says USP. Upper right to that it says 50g
Underneath the word Ointment it says 5% (Spearmint flavored)
under that it says: FOR TOPICAL USE ONLY - NOT FOR OPTHALMIC USE
Underneath all this it says:

For Health Professional /Institutional Use only. Not for household use.

bottom right it says Rx only

It's made by Taro Pharmaceuticals

since this is a little round tub, on the other side is the Pharmacy name on the label. Directions say "Apply to affected areas twice a day"

Lidocaine 5% OINTMENT.

Now when Alan brought home the tub I opened it (thinking it should be sealed (as all meds are, right?) Well the cap just unscrewed and there was no seal, just the ointment. It's not a gel by the way.

Since I did not know if it's supposed to come this way, I immediately phoned the pharmacy asking "I don't mean to sound picky, but since I no nothing about this product, is it supposed to be sealed, and the doctor originally wrote 90 grams of lidocaine cream, and this is 50 g".

I know this pharmacist for over 10 years so he's trustworthy. He said "Melody, this doesn't come in a cream and the ointment tub has 50g, and it's supposed to come this way".

So I said "Oh, okay", and that was that".

The really odd thing is that since I know that some people do the compound thing, I just took my morning walk and went to Walgreens since I was under the impression that Walgreens is a compound pharmacy. I asked her about the Lidocaine ointment saying "I just heard that this just came out" and I said "what do you mean this just came out, I know about the Lidoderm patches but I never knew it came in an ointment, my husband has neuropathy and no one told us it came in an ointment". And she said the following:

"Oh, it's not really prescribed for Neuropathy" and I said "why on earth not?" and she said "Well, nerve medication is prescribed for neuropathy first".

I said "Nerve medication, WHAT NERVE MEDICATION?" then I said "Oh, you're talking about anti-seizure meds??" and she said "well, we call them nerve medication now". So I said "and what if they don't work (like in Alan's case), and she just shrugged and then she said:

"You have to be very careful about using the ointment, don't use too much because of the side effects". I said "what side effects?:" and she says: "It can affect the heart". Then she said; "Tell your husband not to put it on the whole foot, just the area where he gets the zips and zaps" I said "does it come in a cream?" and she says "the tube is a gel and it is 2% lidocaine".

Last night, Alan took a bit and mixed it with his healthifeet cream, and applied it (I have no idea where because I went to sleep before he did). He goes to sleep at 6 a.m. and wakes at 1:30 p.m. saying "he sleeps better during the day".

When he wakes up, I'll be sure and explain the whole "use a little bit and use it only on the area that zips and zaps".

So I gather if he takes a bit of the lidocaine ointment and mixes it with his Healthifeet cream and just applies it to the area by the toes that are affected, and if it works, then this at least should give him some peace right?

Oh, and Dr. Fred told Alan. "Are you taking Alpha Lipoic Acid"? and Alan said "Are you kidding, Melody has me on B-12, Alpha this, etc. He laughed.

So is this tub of lidocaine ointment a compound or does it come in a big vat and they just scoop it in a tub and put the label on it? I have no idea.

And before I forget, Alan used to use the Lidoderm patches. They did provide some relief at first (12 hours on, and 12 hours off), and he used to cut them into strips and place each strip around each toe, but after a long while, he stopped using them saying "they don't do anything". So I just used them for my sciactica when it flared up.
Melody

[mrsD]

From what you are saying, this is not a special formulation like I was hoping it was.

Is this the item?
http://www2.mooremedical.com/index.c...tail&PID=12546

Flavoring means that it may be used in the mouth or around the lips.
I suspect it is used for intubation of patients (nasogastric tubes etc).
It is a small jar, meaning original use is small applications.
The PDF on it, mentions dentistry, and application for painful dentures.

This product does not have the vehicle base as the link I gave, earlier.

Abstract;Lidocaine preparation on the market is difficult to less absorbable to normal skin. Whereas a lidocaine ointment prepared by our hospital contains oleyl alcohol, which is easily absorbed percutaneously and a surfactant as basements. Here, we report a case of intractable pain that was remarkably improved with the ointment. The relation between the blood concentration of local anesthetic and its analgesic effects was discussed. This preparation was effective for neuropathic pain of fingers after injury and neuropathy after herpes zoster. The maximum analgesic effects were obtained at the peak of blood lidocaine concentration, but it was used with safety. Therapeutic effects of the lidocaine ointment were satisfactory although its blood level was not so high.

[stagger]

I tried the EMLA topicial use cream which consists of 2.5% lidocaine and 2.5% of prilocaine. When I put it on the area of pain in this case the neuroma I started getting leg jerks later in the night same with the Lidoderm patch. I just recently was sent Geritrex which is a analgesic balm for muscular pain relief. I don't give a high rating either. After 30 days of using the capzasin roll on under the 3rd and 4th toe at night and putting a soft spacer between them the pain is much less intense and painful. I believe I am killing the nerve that exist there. This is strong stuff and better see a Dr. if your thinking about using this especially if you don't heal easily.

[MelodyL]

Originally Posted by mrsD

From what you are saying, this is not a special formulation like I was hoping it was.

Is this the item?
http://www2.mooremedical.com/index.c...tail&PID=12546

Flavoring means that it may be used in the mouth or around the lips.
I suspect it is used for intubation of patients (nasogastric tubes etc).
It is a small jar, meaning original use is small applications.
The PDF on it, mentions dentistry, and application for painful dentures.

This product does not have the vehicle base as the link I gave, earlier.

MRS. D!!!

It is EXACTLY THE SAME ITEM.

Melody

[aeb105]

I use Topical Magnesium Oil for pain and in general to keep magnesium levels(and cellular energy, good for nerves, up). I have taken Neurontin and all that stuff and after about 5 or 6 sprays of mag oil, it offers a similar(albeit healthier) releif.