Throwing is not the answer, Barb. At least not for me. I throw like a girl.

More throwing thoughts:

• The trip to Lowe's was to buy some $0.38/ea. bricks to build the base and inner retainer wall. So I'm throwing them from the back of my car up into the little front yard, which was about 8 feet. Three unrelated passersby asked me if I wanted help. Don't know if I looked that pathetic or if they really wanted to throw bricks too.

• Throwing pot holders: reminds me of the hot pad -a hard, ceramic one- that I threw at my brother because he wouldn't let me watch Rin Tin Tin on the TV. He ducked, and it took out a pane in the China closet and a bone China teacup from my mother's wedding set. I still feel bad about that.

Did not read thru all replies so may repeat something someone might have said..

I was prescribed baclofen for muscle spasms... and very next day could walk better in morning when my muscles are tight... so relief for me was quickly... but after being on it a while had to increase it... and now spasms are getting worse again... but using lots of stretching and PT to try to get by without increase or more meds... as PT said more I increase the harder to live with decreased amounts...

If she is in great dire pain, why not the ER for pain meds... and did the doctor she seen address then what they can do for what is causing hte back spasms... is there things that can be addressed there to help it ...PT or something.... questions for the doctor I guess...

NO I have never had an issue of leaking urine while on the medicine... my bladder si weak and I have that with sneezes etc... (due to giving birth 6 times...)

speaking of that my spasm pain is like childbirth at times... sometimes I relax and use heat or ice too on areas... stretching and have spouse massaging the back areas that are tight...

good luck and hugss,sarah

in the old days i read that people used to relieve their frustrations or tensions by throwing plates in the woods against trees while screaming at the top of their lungs . of course this is environmentally destructive so maybe throwing stones in the ocean or river or lake while screaming might help. or perhaps throwing eggs or tomatos or something like that in the woods that animals would eat after might work. finding an area where no one would hear you so as not to alarm anyone or getting yourself committed my involve a bit of looking for these days. ive never done it myself but it sounds good to me at times.

Thanks for your thoughts, sarah. Sorry about your back spasms

Mom didn't want to go to the ER because the paramedics, when this first started, said the ER would do nothing for her. I know better as I had bad back spams once, went to the ER, got the drugs I needed, and was fine after, not that I'm saying mom will get all better. But mom is from the generation that doesn't question authority, and hey, the peach-fuzzed little twerps had uniforms on. I wasn't there at the time, or I would have schooled them.

Anyway, the good news is that the second muscle relaxer does seem to be working better, and she said she got a good night's sleep for the first time in 10 days.

To answer your question about additional treatment, she is scheduled for an injection into her spine on the 20th to reduce the inflammation, but I'm blanking on the details at the moment. She's had these before in a different spine location, and they have helped for other pains. Mom has been resistant to my suggestions of either heat or cold. Everyone in my family is weird. This should expain a lot to you.

And thanks for the thowing suggestions, echoes. I was thinking a few rounds of Bocce might be good, although that's underhand throwing, which isn't really cathartic. But it's one of the few semi-physical games I have a fighting chance of winning against a 20-year-old guy. Haven't tried it since getting PN though, so that might not be true any more.

I'll add my comments on Baclofen, if I may. I'm truly terrified of it! Long before I became deathly ill last year, I had taken Flexeril for back spasms for over a decade, because of a deteriorating spine (arthriitis, osteo). It always worked without fail, even after my last facet injection when the surgeon actually had to "pound" the needle into the joint.

During my recent illness, they took me off Flexiril (without any replacement) because it interfered with diagnostics. After I'd come home, the pain Dr reintroduced it because of intense spasms from PT - after he worked through more serious pain concerns. I immediately developed urinary problems (the exact opposite - I couldn't go). After much arguing because of my previous long-term usage, he took me off Flexeril and put me on Baclofen. He explained, in excruciating detail, how I had to ramp-on/ramp-off it. My urinary problem stopped almost immediately (it's fairly common in combination with certain other drugs). As I ramped up to full Baclofen dosage, other far more serious problems developed (no spasm relief at any point, either).

Hallucinations (husband's term); he'd find me carrying on long conversations to thin air; I assured him I never, ever saw anybody or thing. I do remember talking, but he said it was clear, involved, normal conversation. Something I absolutely couldn't do back then and still have some problems with because of brain injuries from the illness.

Vivid, terrifying nightmares based on reality. At 1st, I didn't remember dream content. Onset symptoms included throwing myself from bed to floor. Crawling to the bedroom wall, backing into it, huddling into a ball and crying, trembling. Then, running to the master bath, closing/locking the door, turning all the lights on and crying for help. Then, and still significant in extent now, I'm bedridden and can barely walk the distance. My hands are all-but useless. Finally, paralysis in bed, screaming for help. I said reality-based because at the end, I remembered the nightmares clearly. All included my room, its real furniture and electronics in place (TV, computer, radio, phones, down to remote controls). My empty-nest family; husband, all five cats. I will not describe nightmare contents, but they included simply horrendious things.

Dramatic mood swings and paranoia. I cried violently at toilet paper commercials, laughed until it hurt over news stories about war casualties, accident victims, tornado devestation, even 1 that flattened a town 25 miles from our home. Froze up on medical/PT days. Positive they were killing me with medications, excercises, tests.

Least/last of all, constipation to the point of real threat to my life (from a certain type of hemmorhoid). Husband called the pain Dr, we described problems on speaker phones, he said to stop the Baclofen immediately, even tho we both brought up his ramp-off speech about severity of problems with doing that. Really, really bad move; I won't describe the details but people should NOT do this. Needless to say, Baclofen was added to the only 3 meds on my allergy/alert list, which have been listed for almost 40 years. The Dr was most mystified that Baclofen didn't stop the spasms. After all, its target audience are those with spinal cord injuries. I could tell he thought the other problems were in our heads. A quick internet search shows even the manufacturer lists many of them, and patients have reported all/even worse reactions.

Sorry that this got so long; I feel absolutely compelled/driven to list my complications, possible effects that someone else could have - whenever I just see/hear Baclofen. It was that bad for me, even compared to my post-illness life. I finally ended up on Robaxen for my spasms, although I have to take far more and still have less relief than Flexiril provided.

As a side note, I wished I had a Mom like most of yours. Mine is 94 and in assisted living (I"m her legal POA and also have medical POA - I let her stay in there, while she really belongs in the full nursing home wing). She will NOT take her medications. I've implemented the order that the staff remains in her room until they know all pills are down her, even if they have to pry her mouth open and force them down her throat. She's a master at clenching her teeth (all her own), hiding them under tongue/in her cheek, spitting them across the room, and ever other trick. There are some "different" problems with a lady that age, who has all her marbles, and checks them daily to ensure each is still there and in its correct position

Hope some of this provides info/different thoughts and considerations regarding Baclofen. Thanks for reading (or finding a new sleep aid )

If I am correct, and MRSD, you would likely know better than I, but, anyway, isn't Baclofen similar or related to the benzo's?

It seems to me, if you use a drug for one thing....something else bad happens....honestly, I don't know what to say.

There remains some debate as to how baclofen works:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/231227

from http://www.rxlist.com/baclofen-drug.htm

also this is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baclofen

Baclofen is not chemically a benzo...but it does behave like one sometimes. In fact there is a guy on the net who claims it will cure alcohol addiction (in very high doses) which seems like a hard way to do it, to me.

I saw this doctor on TV once not too long ago:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8126_mz018.htm

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Katie. Sounds like you really went through hell! Makes me feel almost lucky concerning the Cymbalta withdrawals I'm dealing with right now. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Mom is off the Baclofen now, but we're going through new challenges that anyone with aged loved ones can imagine.

Speaking of dreams, during my Cymbalta withdrawal, I've been having some really epic dreams every night, and by epic, I mean cast of thousands, breathtaking sets, Cecil B. DeMille spectacles. Last night's was more of a theme-park techno-attraction, though. It employed 3-D screens, holographs, and live actors in a huge building with a kabillion rooms that you went through in a self-directed, interactive tour. It had the flavor of Alice in Wonderland meets Sweeny Todd (I'm suspecting a Johnny Depp glitch in the software), so it was whimsically sinister in that 19th-century British way. I woke up and said "wow, if I were willing to $%& my brain with more drugs, I might be rich by now!"

Thanks, cy and mrsD. You both educate me all the time with your info and insights.

I always have vivid dreams. I don't mind them, except when they turn negative. But that doesn't happen very often (spiders, snakes and being chased are not my faves). And I don't take any antidepressants.

When we go upNorth for the summer, it is soooooo quiet up there, I have way more dreams than usual as well.

Thanks, MrsD. The 2nd user comment in the 2nd link rather sums up my experience: "It caused me to see things and hear things that were not there. It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me, I was afraid and the worst part is that things I saw seemed very real to me."

However, the 2nd paragraph about withdrawal in the wikipedia article brings back scary memories, too

Thanks, JoanB. Yes, it was a living hell for me, and I was on/off it in just over a month (I think - not much of my thinking was clear during the experience). I have never experienced anything like it. Of the 3 drugs listed that I can't take, 2 cause rashes, 1 causes anaphylactic shock. I asked that Baclofen be added to the top of the list. I hope your Cymbalta withdrawal is over. I sure would have loved dreams like yours, though

I can't imagine an elderly parent going through what I did. Just throwing themselves out of bed to the floor would be a guaranteed broken hip, pelvis, or both - I have an uncemented, artificial left hip, and I've broken the left half of the pelvis. On the right, the hip looks like it was repaired with supplies from an Ace Hardware closeout sale, and I've broken that side of the pelvis twice, for a total of 8 pieces. None was fun, even when I started at age 49! The mental machinations, especially coupled with any level of dementia, would cause a heart attack. I am one of a small percentage, but any who experience bad reactions to Baclofen will never forget them. If I alert even a single person to what can happen and they notice the first symptom, and call their Dr asap, I will be thankful.

PS: When looking up new drugs as I started recovering last year, I stumbled on the Drugs- Forum web site. Very professional, huge, in multiple languages. However, most of its threads/posts/content is devoted to...um...er...alternate uses of prescription drugs. With just common, kitchen items, you can turn just about anything, including Baclofen, into an interesting, 'recreational' activity. (Katie RUNS for her herbal tea!)