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Old 10-09-2010, 08:02 AM #1
lynn01 lynn01 is offline
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Question Is it demylinating or axonal I'm not sure?

My nueropathy has demylinating and axonal features. I should have ask the doctor if the axonal features are caused by the demylinating or vice versa. I read that majority of nueropathies are axonal and less the demylinating type. It is affecting both sensory and motor functions. He has me listed as idiopathic for the time-being. Does anyone know much about these features, which one happens first demylinating or axonal problems? Thanks for any help with this question.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:57 AM #2
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Originally Posted by lynn01 View Post
My nueropathy has demylinating and axonal features. I should have ask the doctor if the axonal features are caused by the demylinating or vice versa. I read that majority of nueropathies are axonal and less the demylinating type. It is affecting both sensory and motor functions. He has me listed as idiopathic for the time-being. Does anyone know much about these features, which one happens first demylinating or axonal problems? Thanks for any help with this question.
Have you been tested for CMT? DNA blood testing is available for around 22 + types of it. It is costly. Your insurance may or may not help. The DNA blood testing could rule in or out CMT. Do you have any family history of any of this?

Have you had an EMG/NCV? I can't remember if you have or not. With CMT it would depend on the type as to whether it is demylinating or axonal. Thank you.
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:18 AM #3
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This is a monograph on axonal neuropathies:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1175276-overview

This explains the differences too:
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/p...neuropathy.htm

Axonal damage can come from demyelinating the insulation on the axon, or by damaging the cell that owns the axon from within. Some demyelinating can be repaired, as in GBS if caught in time. If the cell interior dies however, it is gone.

The repair of myelin can be enhanced with B12, fish oil (essential fatty acids) and B6, magnesium.

Be aware that there are some studies coming out that Statins damage remyelination repair, mostly in the CNS so far. I would think they also do this elsewhere too in the periphery. (the studies used imaging only in the CNS using MRIs.)
http://www.newsinferno.com/product-r...r-ms-patients/
Previously high dose statins (the kind that cross easily into the brain) were suggested and tried on MS patients. Then this effect became obvious. Zocor, is one that is very lipofilic and Lipitor which is moderately so.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:25 AM #4
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Default My Nerve Conduction Results

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Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
Have you been tested for CMT? DNA blood testing is available for around 22 + types of it. It is costly. Your insurance may or may not help. The DNA blood testing could rule in or out CMT. Do you have any family history of any of this?

Have you had an EMG/NCV? I can't remember if you have or not. With CMT it would depend on the type as to whether it is demylinating or axonal. Thank you.
Thanks for helping Kitt,
I have posted them before but not much response back.

Examination revealed absent DTR's on the ankles. Stocking distribution hypoesthesia of both extremeties. High arches in both feet noted.

Summary of findings: No response upon motor stimulation for the the right peroneal nerve. Normal DML's for the right and left posterior tibial nerve. Prolonged DML for the left peroneal nerve. Normal motor NCV for the right posterior tibial nerve. Slow motor NCV's for the left peroneal nerve and left posterior tibial nerve. Normal amplitude of the CMAP's for the right and left posterior tibial nerve. Decreased amplitude of the CMAP for the left peroneal nerve. No response upon sensory stimulation for the right and left peroneal nerve. Normal amplitude of the SNAP's for the right and left sural nerves. Prolonged DSL's for the right and left sural nerves. Slow sensory NCV's for the right and left sural nerves, the left peroneal, and the left and right tibial nerves. "F" waves had prolonged latencies. The waves were absent for the right peroneal nerve. The needle electrode sampling of both lower limbs was normal.

Impression: These nerve conduction studies revealed the presence of a systemic sensory-motor peripheral neuropathy with demyelinating and axonal features. Her EMG was negative for an active radiculpathy.

Recommendations: Her symptoms are likely neuropathic in nature. I will perform a search for treatable causes of peripheral neuropathy. (diabetes, hypothyroidism, vitiamin B12, folate deficiences, paraprotienmias, ect.)

These are the only test's I have had, my lab work came back normal. On my follow-up visit he has listed me idiopathic for now, he said he is not ruling out hereditary or femoral problems at this time. He will repeat the NCV's in July. He said to wait a year from the first NCV's then repeat it.
He told me alot of idiopathic neuropathies resolve on there own.
I first notice symptoms in my right foot a couple of years ago but over the past year I now have symptoms in my left foot and legs, mild tingling and numbness, the weak feeling is what bothers me the most, when things don't feel like there functioning properly. Thanks for your help.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:54 AM #5
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This is a monograph on axonal neuropathies:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1175276-overview

This explains the differences too:
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/p...neuropathy.htm

Axonal damage can come from demyelinating the insulation on the axon, or by damaging the cell that owns the axon from within. Some demyelinating can be repaired, as in GBS if caught in time. If the cell interior dies however, it is gone.

The repair of myelin can be enhanced with B12, fish oil (essential fatty acids) and B6, magnesium.

Be aware that there are some studies coming out that Statins damage remyelination repair, mostly in the CNS so far. I would think they also do this elsewhere too in the periphery. (the studies used imaging only in the CNS using MRIs.)
http://www.newsinferno.com/product-r...r-ms-patients/
Previously high dose statins (the kind that cross easily into the brain) were suggested and tried on MS patients. Then this effect became obvious. Zocor, is one that is very lipofilic and Lipitor which is moderately so.

Thanks Mrs. D, I have not taken any statins, but it is nice to no what to take and not to that can cause problems, and we defintley don't need more problems......
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:22 PM #6
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There are biological toxins too:

Poorly cooked chicken can harbor Campylobacter bacteria, which attack the nerves (in addition to causing GI vomiting and diarrhea).

Also there is a fish poisoning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciguatera

Also GBS from vaccine reactions.

These are the acute types, which may resolve and some of them are treated with IVIG.

The chronic ones, where the trigger is unknown present more difficulty since one may have continuous exposure.

What it amounts to is toxins are building up everywhere around us now. There is a very scary article out about Mexico City, and the nano particles concentrating there that are causing brain damage in CHILDREN (recently in Science News)!
http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=12328.php

It is thought that pollution that we cannot see is affecting the brain, heart, and blood vessels of everyone exposed to it. It is not a stretch to include the nervous system too.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:34 PM #7
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There are biological toxins too:

Poorly cooked chicken can harbor Campylobacter bacteria, which attack the nerves (in addition to causing GI vomiting and diarrhea).

Also there is a fish poisoning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciguatera

Also GBS from vaccine reactions.

These are the acute types, which may resolve and some of them are treated with IVIG.

The chronic ones, where the trigger is unknown present more difficulty since one may have continuous exposure.

What it amounts to is toxins are building up everywhere around us now. There is a very scary article out about Mexico City, and the nano particles concentrating there that are causing brain damage in CHILDREN (recently in Science News)!
http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=12328.php

It is thought that pollution that we cannot see is affecting the brain, heart, and blood vessels of everyone exposed to it. It is not a stretch to include the nervous system too.
My symptoms did not start acute. I started to notice symptoms a couple of years ago and the sensations and weakness has slowly been getting worse over the past 6 to 8 months.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:38 PM #8
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Well, from what has been posted over the years here, the acute situations have a better outcome. Many posters have left over the last decade as they improved. Illness, viral reactions, are the most common that I have seen here.

The chronic ones remain just that ...chronic.
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:23 PM #9
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Lynn that is not a very detailed impression section on your emg/ncs. For instance mine states a severe large fiber axonal sensory motor peripheral neuropathy with demyelination. ASk the doctor that did it is it primalrily axonal with demyelination caused by degenerating axons or demelinating causing axonal damage by the degeneration of the myelin sheath.

I have no statistics but after years of reading posts i havent read of too many peripheral neuropathies with unknown cause getting better. it does happen though.

I have had PN specialists tell me what Mrs. D has written that the prognosis for chronic long term peripheral neuropathies is not good. Too much systemic long term damage to recover, even if the cause is ameliorated.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:44 PM #10
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Lynn that is not a very detailed impression section on your emg/ncs. For instance mine states a severe large fiber axonal sensory motor peripheral neuropathy with demyelination. ASk the doctor that did it is it primalrily axonal with demyelination caused by degenerating axons or demelinating causing axonal damage by the degeneration of the myelin sheath.

I have no statistics but after years of reading posts i havent read of too many peripheral neuropathies with unknown cause getting better. it does happen though.

I have had PN specialists tell me what Mrs. D has written that the prognosis for chronic long term peripheral neuropathies is not good. Too much systemic long term damage to recover, even if the cause is ameliorated.

Thanks Echoes Long Ago,

I know he did not give me much information on the report, I didn't know alot about PN when he told me. I have learned more on the forum. and plan on asking a lot more questions. I did ask him how bad the nerve damage is. All he said is that it is significant, because it's not just affecting the sensory nerves but also the motor nerves. That doesn't give me much to go on right now and I don't go back till July for another NCV. Why the long wait I'm not really sure.
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